Cynobacteria or corriline algae?

Marinemom · 09/15/2006, 10:27 AM

I have a 60 gallon saltwater reef that has been up for eight and a half months. It has an emperor 400 running on it without the bio-wheels that was recycled from another tank. It also has 89 pounds of live rock in it. The protien skimmer is a coralife superskimmer 125. There are also three powerheads in this reef to help circulate the water and for enough movement.The inhabitants are several snails such as turbos and astreas as well as some hermit crabs. This reef also has one green chromis, one six line wrasse, one gold striped maroon clownfish, one yellow tang and one purple tang.I also have a cleaner shrimp.

So here is the problem. When I went on vacation two months ago I left the protien skimmer off for the week that I was gone.I have heard of too many awful horror stories of protien skimmers that have been left unattended. When I came back from my vacation, I noticed some cynobacteria on the substrate and a little on the side glass. I assumed that this was caused from leaving the protien skimmer off for a week and thought that with water changes and the skimmer back on this would go away. However, over the course of the last two months since I have been back, I now have this dark red/brown stuff that is covering a lot of the pretty pink carriline on the back wall and on the sides of this aquarium. It does not come off easily as I have to use a scraper to scrape it to get to the pretty pink corriline algae. It seems that it is hard and crusty. I thought that cyno was easy to remove and slimy. This is why I am confused about this stuff. Could this be another form of corriline algae? I know that corriline comes in different colors but I think this stuff is ugly. My husband thinks it is pretty but I don't know why. It is clearly UGLY. Can cyno be hard and crusty like this is and has been for the last two months or is it always slimy and easy to remove? If this is some form of ugly corriline, will it hurt my tank if I scrape it off to get to the pretty pink and purple corriline underneath it? The fish, inverts, and corals seem unaffected by it. Oh, also the lighting is 260 watts of power compacts that are on for ten hours a day that are set on automatic timers.

So what do you all think? Cyno or some form of ugly corriline? When my son comes home I will try to post a picture of the tank with this stuff. He takes way better pictures than I can.

Any and all help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Marinemom

inlandreef · 09/15/2006, 10:32 AM

Cyno is really slimey. you can pick it right off anything. You could be growing some red coraline. coraline comes in many different colors. Some are black.

WaterKeeper · 09/15/2006, 11:08 AM

If it is hard from a calcium cell structure it is most likely coralline. As Inland said, cyano is soft and can be scraped right off.

Avi · 09/15/2006, 11:24 AM

It isn't cyano from what you've described. But, though I've never heard of true black, it does come in a lot of different colors and shades of colors. The circles show two different colors...Is that what you are referring to on the right?

Marinemom · 09/15/2006, 11:53 AM

Mine is more of a dark red or ugly brown. I just checked it again this morning after cleaning out the protien skimmer and on the surface there is a slimy feel to it. However, it does not just wipe off or pull off in strings. I still have to work to get this off. I really want to get rid of this. Of course this will require removing some of the live rock to do this. If I do a large water change after trying to remove it manually, will that help get rid of this? Also, I have the protien skimmer set to pretty much dry skimmate. If I set the skimmer to produce more wet skimmate so more of this stuff can be skimmed from the reef, is this an option?

Marinemom

Avi · 09/15/2006, 12:08 PM

Before going into this any further, I'd want to know if this is what it looks like:

http://cygnus.pbwiki.com/f/DSCN2745_small.JPG

Marinemom · 09/15/2006, 12:50 PM

Some of it looks like that but most of it is a dark red.

Marinemom

P.S. My son should be home in about an hour and I will try to post a picture up so everyone can help me better with this.

bpd964 · 09/15/2006, 12:52 PM

holy moly...

Avi · 09/15/2006, 01:34 PM

Well, what that is is dinoflagelates. I can't say from what you're saying, Marinemom, that is what you have. While we know that coraline can be of any number of colors, brown isn't, to my knowledge one of the colors. So, let me ask you this. If you lift a portion of what it is that you have in your tank, can you then remove it like a carpet in sections?

Shagsbeard · 09/15/2006, 03:20 PM

I nominate Avi's tank for tank of the month. Hearing the story on how that tank was managed would teach me a lot more about reefing than these multi-million dollar tanks each month.

Marinemom · 09/15/2006, 05:14 PM

O.K. here are some pictures of this stuff I was talking about. Can you see how it is starting to take over the back wall and the sides of the tank? Some of it is on the substrate too.

[IMG]http://i10.*******.com/2e3nx4w.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i9.*******.com/4cw69af[/IMG]

jessp · 09/15/2006, 05:20 PM

looks like corraline gone wild

Avi · 09/15/2006, 05:27 PM

First of all, Shags, I can't claim credit for that one. It's one of the rare photos of dinoglagelates that I was able to find on the Internet. That poor guy that has that tank does chronicle the way he got rid of the dinoglagelates after a fight with it, though. You can follow the punch by punch here:

http://cygnus.pbwiki.com/Reef

Second of all, Marinemom, I'd agree fully with jessp, that what you have is, indeed, a whole lot of coraline growing. Enjoy it. It's good.

SeanySean · 09/15/2006, 05:27 PM

you have a very healthy tank there thats deff corraline

Marinemom · 09/15/2006, 07:22 PM

Corriline algae, really?Well, that's good news. At least it will not hurt my tank. Like I said before, I know that corriline algae comes in different colors, but this strain is too dark for my taste. The pretty pink and lighter purple corriline is underneath this. Is it safe to scrape some of the darker stuff off so I can see the lighter stuff or is that a bad idea?

Marinemom

Avi · 09/15/2006, 07:50 PM

I think that what you'll find is as the tank ages, there'll be different colors showing up and sometimes one will do better than another and then the tables will turn and another will flourish. I am not certain I can say this as a matter of fact, but I do believe that when I raise the calcium level a bit and maintain it at a higher level (for my reef), like at 440ppm, the "nicer" pink coraline starts to spread moreso than the darker. You can give that a try. I wouldn't think that it's an issue that you should focus on though, IMO. just get some more coral and concentrate on those. That's a great distraction.

JW Jersey · 10/03/2006, 05:15 PM

I have a question. If you look closely from a side view does it look fuzzy because I have a unknown type of algea growing all over my coriline algae it looks like the same color as your picture. I will post a picture shortly.

ctbean1 · 10/04/2006, 02:42 PM

I am having the same thing and I don't know what the "fuzz" is either.

ctbean1 · 10/05/2006, 12:48 PM

Anyone have any answers to this???

wankelrx · 10/05/2006, 12:56 PM

This sounds like what I have.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...69#post8033869

ctbean1 · 10/05/2006, 12:59 PM

It does sound very similar.

Were you ever able to get rid of it or figure out exactly what it was? Is it Cyano?

Marinemom · 10/05/2006, 02:18 PM

This I determined was a mixture of coraline algea which is good and cyano which is very bad. I started to scrape it when I relized this stuff was coming off in matts and flying through my tank which was cyano. I had been battling cyano on the walls of the aquarium and the substrate which was making me crazy for two and a half months. In spite of my best efforts the cyano would not go away. So I was driven to use chemical means to get rid of it. Please do not do this. I did and now my reef is dead. I have a few fish left and one coral. Everything else is dead. I know that some people use this chemical with no ill effects, but it caused my reef to go belly up. If I were you I would just increase your water changes and improve the flow in your tank. Work on the water quality issues first and then you will not be driven to a chemical solution to solve it like I was.

Marinemom

ERICN · 10/05/2006, 02:19 PM

someone asked earlier if you could pull it up off the sand like a piece of carpet I have the maroon and green algae growing since I switched to T5 lights that is like that and covers the front glass in green haze every couple days. sorry to jump in on this thread just wanted to ask what is is what is causing it and how to treat it

wankelrx · 10/06/2006, 11:14 PM

I didn't have it until I switched to T5 lighting also. It does not appear to match the description of any type of cyano that I know of. It grows on everything but appear to stop growing after something is covered. It starts as brown spots that are hard with little hairs growing out of them, the hairs grows to a certain length then stops. It grows on my hermit's shell and after he sits in the shade for a few days it completely goes away but when he returns to the light it grows over his shell in about 3-4 hours.

It doesn't grow on any coral and it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on anything in the tank. My astrea snails will eat the hairs but they can't eat fast enough.

09/15/2006, 10:27 AM	#1
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	Cynobacteria or corriline algae? I have a 60 gallon saltwater reef that has been up for eight and a half months. It has an emperor 400 running on it without the bio-wheels that was recycled from another tank. It also has 89 pounds of live rock in it. The protien skimmer is a coralife superskimmer 125. There are also three powerheads in this reef to help circulate the water and for enough movement.The inhabitants are several snails such as turbos and astreas as well as some hermit crabs. This reef also has one green chromis, one six line wrasse, one gold striped maroon clownfish, one yellow tang and one purple tang.I also have a cleaner shrimp. So here is the problem. When I went on vacation two months ago I left the protien skimmer off for the week that I was gone.I have heard of too many awful horror stories of protien skimmers that have been left unattended. When I came back from my vacation, I noticed some cynobacteria on the substrate and a little on the side glass. I assumed that this was caused from leaving the protien skimmer off for a week and thought that with water changes and the skimmer back on this would go away. However, over the course of the last two months since I have been back, I now have this dark red/brown stuff that is covering a lot of the pretty pink carriline on the back wall and on the sides of this aquarium. It does not come off easily as I have to use a scraper to scrape it to get to the pretty pink corriline algae. It seems that it is hard and crusty. I thought that cyno was easy to remove and slimy. This is why I am confused about this stuff. Could this be another form of corriline algae? I know that corriline comes in different colors but I think this stuff is ugly. My husband thinks it is pretty but I don't know why. It is clearly UGLY. Can cyno be hard and crusty like this is and has been for the last two months or is it always slimy and easy to remove? If this is some form of ugly corriline, will it hurt my tank if I scrape it off to get to the pretty pink and purple corriline underneath it? The fish, inverts, and corals seem unaffected by it. Oh, also the lighting is 260 watts of power compacts that are on for ten hours a day that are set on automatic timers. So what do you all think? Cyno or some form of ugly corriline? When my son comes home I will try to post a picture of the tank with this stuff. He takes way better pictures than I can. Any and all help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Marinemom

09/15/2006, 10:32 AM	#2
inlandreef Mike Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lodi, Ca Posts: 1,058	Cyno is really slimey. you can pick it right off anything. You could be growing some red coraline. coraline comes in many different colors. Some are black. __________________ I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it. - WC. Fields Current Tank Info: 120 with a 50G sump/fuge, Reef Octopus 150 Skimmer, Reef Octopus Reactor, Tek Elite 8x54 T5 fixture

09/15/2006, 11:08 AM	#3
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	If it is hard from a calcium cell structure it is most likely coralline. As Inland said, cyano is soft and can be scraped right off. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

09/15/2006, 11:24 AM	#4
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	It isn't cyano from what you've described. But, though I've never heard of true black, it does come in a lot of different colors and shades of colors. The circles show two different colors...Is that what you are referring to on the right? __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

09/15/2006, 12:08 PM	#6
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Before going into this any further, I'd want to know if this is what it looks like: http://cygnus.pbwiki.com/f/DSCN2745_small.JPG __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

09/15/2006, 11:53 AM	#5
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	Mine is more of a dark red or ugly brown. I just checked it again this morning after cleaning out the protien skimmer and on the surface there is a slimy feel to it. However, it does not just wipe off or pull off in strings. I still have to work to get this off. I really want to get rid of this. Of course this will require removing some of the live rock to do this. If I do a large water change after trying to remove it manually, will that help get rid of this? Also, I have the protien skimmer set to pretty much dry skimmate. If I set the skimmer to produce more wet skimmate so more of this stuff can be skimmed from the reef, is this an option? Marinemom

09/15/2006, 12:50 PM	#7
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	Some of it looks like that but most of it is a dark red. Marinemom P.S. My son should be home in about an hour and I will try to post a picture up so everyone can help me better with this.

09/15/2006, 12:52 PM	#8
bpd964 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bridgeport, CT Posts: 2,237	holy moly...

09/15/2006, 01:34 PM	#9
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Well, what that is is dinoflagelates. I can't say from what you're saying, Marinemom, that is what you have. While we know that coraline can be of any number of colors, brown isn't, to my knowledge one of the colors. So, let me ask you this. If you lift a portion of what it is that you have in your tank, can you then remove it like a carpet in sections? __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

09/15/2006, 03:20 PM	#10
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	I nominate Avi's tank for tank of the month. Hearing the story on how that tank was managed would teach me a lot more about reefing than these multi-million dollar tanks each month.

09/15/2006, 05:14 PM	#11
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	O.K. here are some pictures of this stuff I was talking about. Can you see how it is starting to take over the back wall and the sides of the tank? Some of it is on the substrate too. [IMG]http://i10.*****.com/2e3nx4w.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i9.*****.com/4cw69af[/IMG]

09/15/2006, 05:20 PM	#12
jessp Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Miami Posts: 2,747	looks like corraline gone wild __________________ i'm jess and i'm an addict! Current Tank Info: No tank at this time :(

09/15/2006, 05:27 PM	#13
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	First of all, Shags, I can't claim credit for that one. It's one of the rare photos of dinoglagelates that I was able to find on the Internet. That poor guy that has that tank does chronicle the way he got rid of the dinoglagelates after a fight with it, though. You can follow the punch by punch here: http://cygnus.pbwiki.com/Reef Second of all, Marinemom, I'd agree fully with jessp, that what you have is, indeed, a whole lot of coraline growing. Enjoy it. It's good. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

09/15/2006, 05:27 PM	#14
SeanySean Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 885	you have a very healthy tank there thats deff corraline __________________ _______________ You paid how much for moldy rock!!!! Current Tank Info: 130G http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1042110

09/15/2006, 07:22 PM	#15
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	Corriline algae, really?Well, that's good news. At least it will not hurt my tank. Like I said before, I know that corriline algae comes in different colors, but this strain is too dark for my taste. The pretty pink and lighter purple corriline is underneath this. Is it safe to scrape some of the darker stuff off so I can see the lighter stuff or is that a bad idea? Marinemom

09/15/2006, 07:50 PM	#16
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	I think that what you'll find is as the tank ages, there'll be different colors showing up and sometimes one will do better than another and then the tables will turn and another will flourish. I am not certain I can say this as a matter of fact, but I do believe that when I raise the calcium level a bit and maintain it at a higher level (for my reef), like at 440ppm, the "nicer" pink coraline starts to spread moreso than the darker. You can give that a try. I wouldn't think that it's an issue that you should focus on though, IMO. just get some more coral and concentrate on those. That's a great distraction. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

10/03/2006, 05:15 PM	#17
JW Jersey Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brick, NJ Posts: 217	I have a question. If you look closely from a side view does it look fuzzy because I have a unknown type of algea growing all over my coriline algae it looks like the same color as your picture. I will post a picture shortly. __________________ -John- Current Tank Info: 225 gallon is under way, Deltec 702,PF601 CaRx,Duel wavy seas supplied by a dart for return,Two tunze 6100's,3 lumrnarcIII reflectors with ice cap E/ballest's

10/04/2006, 02:42 PM	#18
ctbean1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 6	I am having the same thing and I don't know what the "fuzz" is either.

10/05/2006, 12:48 PM	#19
ctbean1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 6	Anyone have any answers to this???

10/05/2006, 12:56 PM	#20
wankelrx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 30	This sounds like what I have. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...69#post8033869

10/05/2006, 12:59 PM	#21
ctbean1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 6	It does sound very similar. Were you ever able to get rid of it or figure out exactly what it was? Is it Cyano?

10/05/2006, 02:18 PM	#22
Marinemom Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 534	This I determined was a mixture of coraline algea which is good and cyano which is very bad. I started to scrape it when I relized this stuff was coming off in matts and flying through my tank which was cyano. I had been battling cyano on the walls of the aquarium and the substrate which was making me crazy for two and a half months. In spite of my best efforts the cyano would not go away. So I was driven to use chemical means to get rid of it. Please do not do this. I did and now my reef is dead. I have a few fish left and one coral. Everything else is dead. I know that some people use this chemical with no ill effects, but it caused my reef to go belly up. If I were you I would just increase your water changes and improve the flow in your tank. Work on the water quality issues first and then you will not be driven to a chemical solution to solve it like I was. Marinemom

10/05/2006, 02:19 PM	#23
ERICN Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: MISSOURI Posts: 310	someone asked earlier if you could pull it up off the sand like a piece of carpet I have the maroon and green algae growing since I switched to T5 lights that is like that and covers the front glass in green haze every couple days. sorry to jump in on this thread just wanted to ask what is is what is causing it and how to treat it

10/06/2006, 11:14 PM	#24
wankelrx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 30	I didn't have it until I switched to T5 lighting also. It does not appear to match the description of any type of cyano that I know of. It grows on everything but appear to stop growing after something is covered. It starts as brown spots that are hard with little hairs growing out of them, the hairs grows to a certain length then stops. It grows on my hermit's shell and after he sits in the shade for a few days it completely goes away but when he returns to the light it grows over his shell in about 3-4 hours. It doesn't grow on any coral and it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on anything in the tank. My astrea snails will eat the hairs but they can't eat fast enough.