Vaccum sand?

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 10:01 PM

I apoligize for the very newbie question but do I sift through the sand when I do PWC as I would a freshwater tank?

I just finsihed the cycle and I am going to do a 40-50% PWC and buy my first fish tomorrow. There is some junk on the sand. Wont the sand fly around and up the hose because it is so fine?

Thanks

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 10:04 PM

If it's a fine aragonite like Aragamax, then no. You want to keep the beneficial bacteria in place. Your cleanup crew should do a good job of 'sifting' the sand. Nassarius, Cerith, and fighting conchs are my fav. Although cucumbers are awesome, but probably best for larger tanks.

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 10:42 PM

Great thanks for the response. Not to confuse things more but now that my tank is cycled, I realize I want more sand because it is very shallow. Will it be ok if I add little by little every week?

sir_dudeguy · 09/22/2006, 10:45 PM

Dont add live sand. If you just add regular dry aragonite it should be fine. Just rinse it out really good, otherwise you're gonna have a mega sandstorm (and you still prolly will for a day or so even after rinsing it). Live sand is way overrated imo. I'd never buy it, cuz imo, its just a gimic so they can sell sand thats only somewhat "live" for more than double the price. So just get regular dry aragonite sand

but if you add more live sand at this point, its gonna cause some more mini cycle/spikes

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sir_dudeguy
Dont add live sand. If you just add regular dry aragonite it should be fine. Just rinse it out really good, otherwise you're gonna have a mega sandstorm (and you still prolly will for a day or so even after rinsing it). Live sand is way overrated imo. I'd never buy it, cuz imo, its just a gimic so they can sell sand thats only somewhat "live" for more than double the price. So just get regular dry aragonite sand

but if you add more live sand at this point, its gonna cause some more mini cycle/spikes

Totally agree with you here, Dudeguy! I used the Arag-Alive to bolster my sand bed not too long ago and had a MAJOR ammonia spike. Luckily, I had moved everything to quarantine or would have had a major prob.

sir_dudeguy · 09/22/2006, 10:51 PM

Ya a few weeks ago..maybe a month i cant remember lol..but someone gave me 30 lbs or so of free live sand. It was free so i figured what the heck...So i got it. Now the tank was very very well established. No matter. It still caused a tiny little spike. Now there was no die off really, but it was just cuz the sand was stirred up that i got the spikes (which lasted a week max).

However with the arag-alive crap, who knows how long its been sitting on the shelf (wow..that that was a tongue twister lol. I almost put that "h" in the word "sitting" instead of "shelf" lol..wouldnta been good

)
But the longer it sits there, the more that dies imo, cuz theres really no water in there unless you count that little bit of moisture, and they get pretty cold on the shelves too.

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 10:55 PM

Totally agree. Just a big ammonia ridden mess.

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 11:15 PM

Thanks all. I actually have dry carib-sea aragamax. Thanks for all the help.

Do you all prefer DSB's or shallow? I realize this could be a complex debate on the benefits of each but I just wanted a few opinions. This is my first tank.

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 11:18 PM

I have a dsb that has been running for many years now. I added sand to it a few month ago, but other than that it has performed flawlessly. Nitrates are 0. Depends on what you want to do though. Are you thinking of having a sump/fuge with your tank? It's a 30 gallon right?

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 11:24 PM

It is a 30 but I am not going to go with a sump or fuge for awhile. That changes the performance of a DSB?

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 11:27 PM

No, but you could put the dsb in the fuge and have a small amount of sand in the display. I don't mind the dsb in mine, but I don't know how it would look in a 30. Another option is adding a hang-on fuge with some chaeto for nutrient removal.

Check out this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 11:32 PM

It is really funny you just mentioned that. I am about to make a big order from Dr. Fosters and I was going to buy the AquaFuge HOB Refigium but I didn't know if it was worth the $$ or if it would do me any good. What do you think?

meco65 · 09/22/2006, 11:32 PM

The only reason to get Real Live Sand is sand that has worms and critter in it not just bacteria. If you can get a few pounds of true live sand with wormâ€™s pods and such that is a good thing.

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdalessa01
It is really funny you just mentioned that. I am about to make a big order from Dr. Fosters and I was going to buy the AquaFuge HOB Refigium but I didn't know if it was worth the $$ or if it would do me any good. What do you think?

Those are nice from what I've heard, but they add an extra powerhead to the tank. The Aquaclears have an internal powerhead. You'll just see the intake tube, which isn't as bad, imo. I'm thinking of adding one of the diy aquaclears to my 40 gallon.

sir_dudeguy · 09/22/2006, 11:39 PM

I had a HOB filter on my 55 (i think it was a millenium 2000 or something??? i cant remember) but it was a little smaller then the AC (the one for my size tank anyways) and it made a HUGE difference. Never had algae, always had thousands of pods...all i did was throw in a scoop of live sand from a friends tank, a few rock rubble pieces, and a ball of chaeto. But that was only untill the lip on the hob part broke off and the thing crashed to the floor

Now that its gone, i'm really seeing the difference (algae mostly) and i'm really tryin to get one again (no money doesnt help tho)

drummereef · 09/22/2006, 11:42 PM

Wow, then I'm going to make that my fall project then. I've heard it makes a huge difference on smaller tanks, but I'm surprised you sall that much change on a 55. Very cool, Thanks!

TomDe · 09/22/2006, 11:42 PM

Wow, I never realized how much a fuge could benefit the tank!

sir_dudeguy · 09/23/2006, 12:07 AM

ya same here lol. I didnt expect that at all either. But now that i think back...all my tanks problems seemed to start happening right AFTER that piece a crap thing broke...so idk...its got me convinced lol. I'm gonna definately get the bigger a/c filter this time tho. Bigger's gotta equal better, yesno?

Oh, and you may wanna put a piece of egg-crate in front of the return (on the inside of the filter that is) because w/out it, my chaeto seemed to like jumping over the lip and going ito the tank. I never glued down the crate either...i just kinda shoved it all the way down into the ls in the bottom of the filter. (ya...i''m cheap/ghetto/whatever you wanna call it

)

TomDe · 09/23/2006, 12:09 AM

I think I will build one of these for sure and it is much cheaper. Thanks for the tips. Do I need to use that filter pad? Wont that collect some Nitrates?

drummereef · 09/23/2006, 12:10 AM

I'd say go with the 110, the biggest one. That's what most people are using. You can have more sand, rubble, chaeto in there than the 70. I've saved a bunch of threads on the build so hopefully mine will turn out ok.

drummereef · 09/23/2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdalessa01
I think I will build one of these for sure and it is much cheaper. Thanks for the tips. Do I need to use that filter pad? Wont that collect some Nitrates?

Don't use the filter pad. Yes it will be a nitrate factory. Just follow the steps in the mod threads. Here's some more links...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hagenrefugart.htm

http://iowaaquaria.com/forum/viewtop...067ddf6477ab2e

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=679159

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

sir_dudeguy · 09/23/2006, 12:13 AM

i'd take out everything, including pads and whatnot. Oh, and for the record, i really didnt build anything on it lol. I see some people doing all these weird things that involve drilling the thing? i really dont know why...all i did was throw the sand and a fair bit of rock rubble in there and i was amazed. who knows..maybe i was lucky or something lol.

drummereef · 09/23/2006, 12:14 AM

The simpler the better imo.

TomDe · 09/23/2006, 12:18 AM

In this thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...25&pagenumber=1

Why did he cut the U tube? This is the only part I don't understand why.

sir_dudeguy · 09/23/2006, 12:19 AM

lol...link went to wrong thing i think

09/22/2006, 10:01 PM	#1
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	Vaccum sand? I apoligize for the very newbie question but do I sift through the sand when I do PWC as I would a freshwater tank? I just finsihed the cycle and I am going to do a 40-50% PWC and buy my first fish tomorrow. There is some junk on the sand. Wont the sand fly around and up the hose because it is so fine? Thanks

09/22/2006, 10:04 PM	#2
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	If it's a fine aragonite like Aragamax, then no. You want to keep the beneficial bacteria in place. Your cleanup crew should do a good job of 'sifting' the sand. Nassarius, Cerith, and fighting conchs are my fav. Although cucumbers are awesome, but probably best for larger tanks. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/22/2006, 10:45 PM	#4
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	Dont add live sand. If you just add regular dry aragonite it should be fine. Just rinse it out really good, otherwise you're gonna have a mega sandstorm (and you still prolly will for a day or so even after rinsing it). Live sand is way overrated imo. I'd never buy it, cuz imo, its just a gimic so they can sell sand thats only somewhat "live" for more than double the price. So just get regular dry aragonite sand but if you add more live sand at this point, its gonna cause some more mini cycle/spikes __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/22/2006, 10:51 PM	#6
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	Ya a few weeks ago..maybe a month i cant remember lol..but someone gave me 30 lbs or so of free live sand. It was free so i figured what the heck...So i got it. Now the tank was very very well established. No matter. It still caused a tiny little spike. Now there was no die off really, but it was just cuz the sand was stirred up that i got the spikes (which lasted a week max). However with the arag-alive crap, who knows how long its been sitting on the shelf (wow..that that was a tongue twister lol. I almost put that "h" in the word "sitting" instead of "shelf" lol..wouldnta been good ) But the longer it sits there, the more that dies imo, cuz theres really no water in there unless you count that little bit of moisture, and they get pretty cold on the shelves too. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/22/2006, 10:55 PM	#7
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	Totally agree. Just a big ammonia ridden mess. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/22/2006, 10:42 PM	#3
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	Great thanks for the response. Not to confuse things more but now that my tank is cycled, I realize I want more sand because it is very shallow. Will it be ok if I add little by little every week?

09/22/2006, 11:15 PM	#8
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	Thanks all. I actually have dry carib-sea aragamax. Thanks for all the help. Do you all prefer DSB's or shallow? I realize this could be a complex debate on the benefits of each but I just wanted a few opinions. This is my first tank.

09/22/2006, 11:18 PM	#9
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	I have a dsb that has been running for many years now. I added sand to it a few month ago, but other than that it has performed flawlessly. Nitrates are 0. Depends on what you want to do though. Are you thinking of having a sump/fuge with your tank? It's a 30 gallon right? __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/22/2006, 11:24 PM	#10
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	It is a 30 but I am not going to go with a sump or fuge for awhile. That changes the performance of a DSB?

09/22/2006, 11:27 PM	#11
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	No, but you could put the dsb in the fuge and have a small amount of sand in the display. I don't mind the dsb in mine, but I don't know how it would look in a 30. Another option is adding a hang-on fuge with some chaeto for nutrient removal. Check out this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1 __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/22/2006, 11:32 PM	#12
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	It is really funny you just mentioned that. I am about to make a big order from Dr. Fosters and I was going to buy the AquaFuge HOB Refigium but I didn't know if it was worth the $$ or if it would do me any good. What do you think?

09/22/2006, 11:32 PM	#13
meco65 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,603	The only reason to get Real Live Sand is sand that has worms and critter in it not just bacteria. If you can get a few pounds of true live sand with wormâ€™s pods and such that is a good thing.

09/22/2006, 11:39 PM	#15
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	I had a HOB filter on my 55 (i think it was a millenium 2000 or something??? i cant remember) but it was a little smaller then the AC (the one for my size tank anyways) and it made a HUGE difference. Never had algae, always had thousands of pods...all i did was throw in a scoop of live sand from a friends tank, a few rock rubble pieces, and a ball of chaeto. But that was only untill the lip on the hob part broke off and the thing crashed to the floor Now that its gone, i'm really seeing the difference (algae mostly) and i'm really tryin to get one again (no money doesnt help tho) __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/22/2006, 11:42 PM	#16
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	Wow, then I'm going to make that my fall project then. I've heard it makes a huge difference on smaller tanks, but I'm surprised you sall that much change on a 55. Very cool, Thanks! __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/23/2006, 12:07 AM	#18
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	ya same here lol. I didnt expect that at all either. But now that i think back...all my tanks problems seemed to start happening right AFTER that piece a crap thing broke...so idk...its got me convinced lol. I'm gonna definately get the bigger a/c filter this time tho. Bigger's gotta equal better, yesno? Oh, and you may wanna put a piece of egg-crate in front of the return (on the inside of the filter that is) because w/out it, my chaeto seemed to like jumping over the lip and going ito the tank. I never glued down the crate either...i just kinda shoved it all the way down into the ls in the bottom of the filter. (ya...i''m cheap/ghetto/whatever you wanna call it ) __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/23/2006, 12:09 AM	#19
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	I think I will build one of these for sure and it is much cheaper. Thanks for the tips. Do I need to use that filter pad? Wont that collect some Nitrates?

09/23/2006, 12:10 AM	#20
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	I'd say go with the 110, the biggest one. That's what most people are using. You can have more sand, rubble, chaeto in there than the 70. I've saved a bunch of threads on the build so hopefully mine will turn out ok. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/23/2006, 12:13 AM	#22
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	i'd take out everything, including pads and whatnot. Oh, and for the record, i really didnt build anything on it lol. I see some people doing all these weird things that involve drilling the thing? i really dont know why...all i did was throw the sand and a fair bit of rock rubble in there and i was amazed. who knows..maybe i was lucky or something lol. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/23/2006, 12:14 AM	#23
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	The simpler the better imo. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

09/23/2006, 12:18 AM	#24
TomDe Keep it simple Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 308	In this thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...25&pagenumber=1 Why did he cut the U tube? This is the only part I don't understand why.

09/23/2006, 12:19 AM	#25
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	lol...link went to wrong thing i think __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!