What to put in refugiums

etbjr · 09/28/2006, 07:07 AM

We are going to be setting up a 55 gallon display tank with 2 refugiums. The larger is going to be a 29 gallon that I would like to use to breed copepods etc. The smaller will be a 5 gallon HOB that I plan to use as a veggie filter with Gracillia(sp?).
Here are the questions:
1) Does this make sense or should the vegie filter be in the
29 and the HOB by used for pods?
2) Is there a web reference to show me how to plumb the 29?
3) How much higher does the 29 have to be above the 55?
ie does the bottom of the 29 need to be above the WL of the 55 or is say 5 to 10" enough?
Thanks
Ed

sir_dudeguy · 09/28/2006, 07:46 AM

first....

Quote:

3) How much higher does the 29 have to be above the 55?

it doesnt go above your main tank. It goes below. If your tank isnt drilled, you'll need a hang on overflow. Also, by having the fuge below, you wont get any evaporation in the main tank. It will all be in the fuge now. So you'll just see the evap right there. What i did on mine is draw a line in permanent marker where the water level should be. If i ever want to use that tank again (the one i used as a fuge) i can just take a dry-erase marker and it will erase the permanent...pretty cool actually

So what do you mean by "vegie filter"? Do you mean some sort of algae like chaeto? (srry...i dont know if gracillia is an algae or not, so i'll just use chaeto as an example)
If thats what you mean, you can just do that in the 29g too.

But basically what you put in a fuge is live sand (deep), some live rock rubble on top of the sand, and then some sort of algae like chaeto just floating in there.

hope this helps

etbjr · 09/28/2006, 11:37 AM

What i meant was is a 5 gallon fuge big enough to hold enough macro algae to be beneficial to the display tank.

Won't plankters get chopped up by the pump impeller if the fuge is below the display?
Thanks
Ed

Jocko · 09/28/2006, 11:50 AM

Interesting. Most people don't have their refug above their tank. That is considered something of a luxury. The idea is that water can simply flow via gravity from the refug into the main tank theoretically delivering more live pods because no spinning filter blades were involved.

Not sure how the HOB is set up but if it just overflows back into the main tank then I guess you'd get the same effect from that. Thats kinda cool. You're gonna wanna put macro in both refugiums. The macro is where the pods grow. Over time it will all become infected with pods. I'd put sand and live rock rubble in the 29 and probably just macro in the HOB. Chaeto and that gracilla stuff are both great. Chaeto grows alot faster I think.

Ah plumbing the sump. Good times. I can tell you how I did mine I guess. It's sorta sketchy though. I have an overflow from the main tank that drains down into one side of my sump tank. That area is a refugium. I made two baffles from acrylic I got at Home Depot and siliconed into the tank. Water flows from the refugium over the first baffle and down. The 2nd baffle is up so that water flows under it and then into the remaining area where a return pump sends water back up to the main tank. Also my skimmer is in that area of the sump. I have a light over the refugium that runs on an opposite schedule from the main tank lights.

sir_dudeguy · 09/28/2006, 01:28 PM

well if its above the tank tho...how do you get the water into the fuge in the first place? wouldnt you need a pump to get it there? Either way, you would need a pump.

and a 5 gallon HOB??? thats rather large to be hanging on the back imo.

[quote]plankters[/qote]
whats that?

etbjr · 09/28/2006, 02:15 PM

Keep in mind I haven't done any of this yet...

Plankters are pods. I have been reading alot ...

as far as the pumping goes, the idea seems to be if you pumpwater into the fuge its no big deal because you won't catch that many pods. If you are breeding pods and send THEM through a pump, they will get shredded. On the other hand, if its a gravity fed over flow back into the tank, the pods just fall in.

Shagsbeard · 09/28/2006, 02:18 PM

Your return pump wont kill pods. It might kill some, but not many. The impeller (thing that moves the water) doesn't seal off the whole tube... it doesn't need to. You could suck m&m's through most of our returns and they wouldn't even get scratched (I don't recommend trying this). (But you could try it with some dehydrated krill... it won't be chopped up)

cepaw · 09/28/2006, 02:28 PM

I use gracillia in my refugium
works great
I also use it to feed my tang

sir_dudeguy · 09/28/2006, 05:53 PM

i agree w/shags...you're not gonna be killing off any number of pods to be substantially lowering the population. Wouldnt even worry about it.

Also, i've never heard pods called plankters lol. I've heard of plankton, and phytoplankton, but never plankters. And i'm not bashing on you or anything at all, i just think it all gets confusing when people keep making so many names for the same thing. Especially for blue tangs...so many names. A few off the top of my head are blue tang, hippo tang, blue surgeonfish, blue hippo sergeon fish...bla bla bla..blue tang is easier to remember if you ask me. Not that tangs have anything to do with that, i was just using that as an example of how easily names can be mixed up.

SaVeThEeELs · 09/28/2006, 07:02 PM

dont the pods live in the chaeto?

SaVeThEeELs · 09/28/2006, 07:04 PM

dont the pods live in the chaeto? the double fuge just seems like an unecessary expense....expecially if the 29 gal is the refgium...if what your saying is your gonna have a sump w/ a fuge chamber, all your major equip there and an aditional fuge for pods it would make more sense to me....
that is basically what your doin right?

bertoni · 09/28/2006, 07:30 PM

Many amphipods, copepods, isopods, etc, will live in Chaetomorpha. Having the refugium above the tank is fine, but I don't think there's any real data to show that it's better than way. In the worst case, chopped-up animals are still edible.

I'd probably just stick with the 29g refugium and skip the 5g unit. You'll want the refugium below or above the main tank by at least 5", I'd guess, but that depends on the flow and the size of the plumbing that you choose. All that's needed is enough siphoning action to move water. This animation shows how a sump works:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

The same plumbing will work for your setup.

Plankter is in the dictionary. Technically, most of the small animals in our tanks are not plankters, since they aren't truly planktonic.

meco65 · 09/28/2006, 09:46 PM

The tanks can be side by side as siphoning can be done with a U tube. You could use two over flow boxes inside the tanks so you would not lose siphon. And a pump to pump water from main to refug.[IMG]

[/IMG]

etbjr · 09/29/2006, 05:03 AM

I didn't make plankter up...honest
p56 Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner
"plankter is an individual plankton"

09/28/2006, 07:07 AM	#1
etbjr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 18	What to put in refugiums We are going to be setting up a 55 gallon display tank with 2 refugiums. The larger is going to be a 29 gallon that I would like to use to breed copepods etc. The smaller will be a 5 gallon HOB that I plan to use as a veggie filter with Gracillia(sp?). Here are the questions: 1) Does this make sense or should the vegie filter be in the 29 and the HOB by used for pods? 2) Is there a web reference to show me how to plumb the 29? 3) How much higher does the 29 have to be above the 55? ie does the bottom of the 29 need to be above the WL of the 55 or is say 5 to 10" enough? Thanks Ed

09/28/2006, 01:28 PM	#5
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	well if its above the tank tho...how do you get the water into the fuge in the first place? wouldnt you need a pump to get it there? Either way, you would need a pump. and a 5 gallon HOB??? thats rather large to be hanging on the back imo. [quote]plankters[/qote] whats that? __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/28/2006, 05:53 PM	#9
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	i agree w/shags...you're not gonna be killing off any number of pods to be substantially lowering the population. Wouldnt even worry about it. Also, i've never heard pods called plankters lol. I've heard of plankton, and phytoplankton, but never plankters. And i'm not bashing on you or anything at all, i just think it all gets confusing when people keep making so many names for the same thing. Especially for blue tangs...so many names. A few off the top of my head are blue tang, hippo tang, blue surgeonfish, blue hippo sergeon fish...bla bla bla..blue tang is easier to remember if you ask me. Not that tangs have anything to do with that, i was just using that as an example of how easily names can be mixed up. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

09/28/2006, 07:30 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Many amphipods, copepods, isopods, etc, will live in Chaetomorpha. Having the refugium above the tank is fine, but I don't think there's any real data to show that it's better than way. In the worst case, chopped-up animals are still edible. I'd probably just stick with the 29g refugium and skip the 5g unit. You'll want the refugium below or above the main tank by at least 5", I'd guess, but that depends on the flow and the size of the plumbing that you choose. All that's needed is enough siphoning action to move water. This animation shows how a sump works: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html The same plumbing will work for your setup. Plankter is in the dictionary. Technically, most of the small animals in our tanks are not plankters, since they aren't truly planktonic. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

09/28/2006, 09:46 PM	#13
meco65 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,603	The tanks can be side by side as siphoning can be done with a U tube. You could use two over flow boxes inside the tanks so you would not lose siphon. And a pump to pump water from main to refug.[IMG][/IMG]

09/28/2006, 11:37 AM	#3
etbjr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 18	What i meant was is a 5 gallon fuge big enough to hold enough macro algae to be beneficial to the display tank. Won't plankters get chopped up by the pump impeller if the fuge is below the display? Thanks Ed

09/28/2006, 11:50 AM	#4
Jocko Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 595	Interesting. Most people don't have their refug above their tank. That is considered something of a luxury. The idea is that water can simply flow via gravity from the refug into the main tank theoretically delivering more live pods because no spinning filter blades were involved. Not sure how the HOB is set up but if it just overflows back into the main tank then I guess you'd get the same effect from that. Thats kinda cool. You're gonna wanna put macro in both refugiums. The macro is where the pods grow. Over time it will all become infected with pods. I'd put sand and live rock rubble in the 29 and probably just macro in the HOB. Chaeto and that gracilla stuff are both great. Chaeto grows alot faster I think. Ah plumbing the sump. Good times. I can tell you how I did mine I guess. It's sorta sketchy though. I have an overflow from the main tank that drains down into one side of my sump tank. That area is a refugium. I made two baffles from acrylic I got at Home Depot and siliconed into the tank. Water flows from the refugium over the first baffle and down. The 2nd baffle is up so that water flows under it and then into the remaining area where a return pump sends water back up to the main tank. Also my skimmer is in that area of the sump. I have a light over the refugium that runs on an opposite schedule from the main tank lights.

09/28/2006, 02:15 PM	#6
etbjr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 18	Keep in mind I haven't done any of this yet... Plankters are pods. I have been reading alot ... as far as the pumping goes, the idea seems to be if you pumpwater into the fuge its no big deal because you won't catch that many pods. If you are breeding pods and send THEM through a pump, they will get shredded. On the other hand, if its a gravity fed over flow back into the tank, the pods just fall in.

09/28/2006, 02:18 PM	#7
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Your return pump wont kill pods. It might kill some, but not many. The impeller (thing that moves the water) doesn't seal off the whole tube... it doesn't need to. You could suck m&m's through most of our returns and they wouldn't even get scratched (I don't recommend trying this). (But you could try it with some dehydrated krill... it won't be chopped up)

09/28/2006, 02:28 PM	#8
cepaw Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Medina Ohio Posts: 168	I use gracillia in my refugium works great I also use it to feed my tang

09/28/2006, 07:02 PM	#10
SaVeThEeELs Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: nc Posts: 14	dont the pods live in the chaeto?

09/28/2006, 07:04 PM	#11
SaVeThEeELs Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: nc Posts: 14	dont the pods live in the chaeto? the double fuge just seems like an unecessary expense....expecially if the 29 gal is the refgium...if what your saying is your gonna have a sump w/ a fuge chamber, all your major equip there and an aditional fuge for pods it would make more sense to me.... that is basically what your doin right?

09/29/2006, 05:03 AM	#14
etbjr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 18	I didn't make plankter up...honest p56 Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner "plankter is an individual plankton"