Bio Ball Taboo?

homesidereef · 10/04/2006, 12:51 AM

WHY ARE BIO BALLS BAD FOR URE REEF TANK?

mg426 · 10/04/2006, 01:35 AM

They are victim of their own efficiancy as they do such a good job of converting ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate. In a closed system this can cause nitrate levels to rise to unacceptable levels.

sir_dudeguy · 10/04/2006, 09:39 AM

either they ARE anaerobic, or they ARENT anaerobic...cant remember which one is which...but one of them (whichever the bioballs are lol) dont break nitrates down. Live rock on the other hand has the capability to break down nitrates even further (somewhat), so they wont build up as much as with bioballs.

So in a reef, bioballs are really useless unless you wanna risk getting high nitrates...but that would kill your corals and inverts.

drummereef · 10/04/2006, 09:51 AM

Also, the buildup of detritus on them causes the nitrate to get out of control.

xtm · 10/04/2006, 10:34 AM

People bash bioballs while having no experience with them... this is one of those "trends" in reefkeeping (ie. Tangs need a million gallons, DSB's are no good, etc) IME bio-balls are OK as long as they get rinsed once in awhile. (rinsed in tank water to remove detritus but not the bacteria) the more surface area for bacteria to cling on, the better.

If you have "live rocks" in your sump and you don't vacuum the area, it will accumulate detritus too - just like bioballs would.

My educated guess is that most Nitrate problems occur on a wet-dry filtration system where the bioballs are partially exposed to air and not fully submerged. I mean as long as you have a bioload, you will always produce nitrates - regardless of whether or not you have bioballs or not.

rekn · 10/04/2006, 11:20 AM

actually bio-balls with a trate reactor should be the best way to go

HDAlien · 10/04/2006, 01:38 PM

I just converted away from a wet/dry and nitrate reactor system, it was like fighting a constantly losing battle. I am not a fan of bioballs, yes, they convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but they are then nitrate FACTORIES! Never again for me. But I know others who have success with them, so, as always, your mileage may vary.

HDAlien

looser · 10/04/2006, 02:10 PM

JMO but I'm a big believer in the KISS principal. Although you might be able to use them, you definitely don't need them. At a minimum they would create more of a maintenance issue, so why bother?

Ryanqk · 10/04/2006, 02:28 PM

Honestly i think they are ok when first cycling a new tank but then once mature you should switch to something else like a fuge, DSB, LR and decent skimmer. They are good and converting ammonia but later in life they just leech tons of nitrates, same goes for filter floss, bio-sponge and those little ceramic pellets.
Ryan

buzzer · 10/04/2006, 03:36 PM

I have kept bio balls in my 55 reef for 2 and a half years now with nitrates always at 0ppm but I also have a deep sand bed which obviously helps.
I have read that bio balls are good with a dsb as the bio balls actually feed the dsb nitrates which are then broke down .

mg426 · 10/04/2006, 04:49 PM

I would say that whatever works for whatever system is the way to go.

goda · 10/04/2006, 05:45 PM

there not bad at all.... im not posting why again but recomend you dont just reread whats others say they heard ^^

but for a quick awnser... they CAN become a problom IF you dont clean them every now and then,,,,

jaze36 · 10/04/2006, 06:04 PM

Bio balls use aerobic bacteria to break down ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. The reaction stops there there is no further break down of nitrate and then it builds up in you system. Water changes help to control the nitrate and keep it at a reasonable level for a fo tank, but you will never get rid of the nitrate and will never be able to keep them below 10ppm. On the other hand a dsb and live rock use anarobic bacteria to break down nitrates into nitrogen gas which is naturaly expelled from your tank throught interface with the air and tank water. Through this method you will be able to keep nitrate levels very low or undectable in a well balanced system. Added detritus is never good for any system but it is not the underlying reason why bioball are not good for a reef. They do not have the ability to break down nitrate. If you are going to run a fo sytem with no liverock go for it. If you are going for a healthy reef get rid of them, they will only cause you problems. This is the science behind it ,not opinion.

goda · 10/04/2006, 06:09 PM

yeah so the break down stops there BUT the liverock can finish it off... id rather have high nitrates then high amonia if somthing dies

jaze36 · 10/04/2006, 07:06 PM

You don't have to have high either if you properly set up your tank and matain it. If you have bioballs in your tank you can slowly remove them and watch your nitrate level drop. I have done this in my first reef. When I first set it up I took the bad advice of an employee at a lfs and set it up with a trickle filter. The nitrates were regulary over 10ppm and my corals were stressed. After doing a lot of reading I decided to slowly take them out, and I could watch my nitrate level drop. The trickel filter overloads the ability of the live rock to break them down into nitrogen gas. The tank is out of balance. The levels of nitrates in a tank with liverock and a trickel filter is lower than a tank with no live rock and a trickel filter, but not as low as a tank with only live rock. If you need a reference to this other than some nobody on the internet you can pick up John Tullock's book "Natural Reef Aquarium" it is also explained in there.

So what you are saying you plan on stressing out your corals on a regular basis with high nitrates just incase something dies and and you can't find it?

10/04/2006, 12:51 AM	#1
homesidereef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: LOS ANGELES,CA Posts: 158	Bio Ball Taboo? WHY ARE BIO BALLS BAD FOR URE REEF TANK?

10/04/2006, 01:35 AM	#2
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	They are victim of their own efficiancy as they do such a good job of converting ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate. In a closed system this can cause nitrate levels to rise to unacceptable levels. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

10/04/2006, 09:39 AM	#3
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	either they ARE anaerobic, or they ARENT anaerobic...cant remember which one is which...but one of them (whichever the bioballs are lol) dont break nitrates down. Live rock on the other hand has the capability to break down nitrates even further (somewhat), so they wont build up as much as with bioballs. So in a reef, bioballs are really useless unless you wanna risk getting high nitrates...but that would kill your corals and inverts. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

10/04/2006, 09:51 AM	#4
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	Also, the buildup of detritus on them causes the nitrate to get out of control. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

10/04/2006, 10:34 AM	#5
xtm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Panorama City, CA Posts: 4,703	People bash bioballs while having no experience with them... this is one of those "trends" in reefkeeping (ie. Tangs need a million gallons, DSB's are no good, etc) IME bio-balls are OK as long as they get rinsed once in awhile. (rinsed in tank water to remove detritus but not the bacteria) the more surface area for bacteria to cling on, the better. If you have "live rocks" in your sump and you don't vacuum the area, it will accumulate detritus too - just like bioballs would. My educated guess is that most Nitrate problems occur on a wet-dry filtration system where the bioballs are partially exposed to air and not fully submerged. I mean as long as you have a bioload, you will always produce nitrates - regardless of whether or not you have bioballs or not. __________________ Function before fashion Current Tank Info: 120g SPS Tank (48x24x24)

10/04/2006, 11:20 AM	#6
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	actually bio-balls with a trate reactor should be the best way to go

10/04/2006, 01:38 PM	#7
HDAlien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 476	I just converted away from a wet/dry and nitrate reactor system, it was like fighting a constantly losing battle. I am not a fan of bioballs, yes, they convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but they are then nitrate FACTORIES! Never again for me. But I know others who have success with them, so, as always, your mileage may vary. HDAlien __________________ ¡ʞuɐʇ ʎɯ ǝʌo1 ı Current Tank Info: 220 gal. reef

10/04/2006, 02:10 PM	#8
looser Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Central MA Posts: 933	JMO but I'm a big believer in the KISS principal. Although you might be able to use them, you definitely don't need them. At a minimum they would create more of a maintenance issue, so why bother? __________________ "Honey, get the kids out of the house. . . . the fish tank is about to explode!" Current Tank Info: 225 with 75 Fuge

10/04/2006, 02:28 PM	#9
Ryanqk Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,381	Honestly i think they are ok when first cycling a new tank but then once mature you should switch to something else like a fuge, DSB, LR and decent skimmer. They are good and converting ammonia but later in life they just leech tons of nitrates, same goes for filter floss, bio-sponge and those little ceramic pellets. Ryan __________________ MOM! I'm God Of The Sea People! Behold my tiny minions gloveling at my likeness! Current Tank Info: 75gl display, 20gl long fuge, CPR overflow, Octopuss NW150 skimmer, 4 x 110w VHO T12's and supplemental actinic, ongoing projects...

10/04/2006, 03:36 PM	#10
buzzer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 413	I have kept bio balls in my 55 reef for 2 and a half years now with nitrates always at 0ppm but I also have a deep sand bed which obviously helps. I have read that bio balls are good with a dsb as the bio balls actually feed the dsb nitrates which are then broke down .

10/04/2006, 04:49 PM	#11
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	I would say that whatever works for whatever system is the way to go. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

10/04/2006, 05:45 PM	#12
goda Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: fortlauderdale florida area Posts: 1,874	there not bad at all.... im not posting why again but recomend you dont just reread whats others say they heard ^^ but for a quick awnser... they CAN become a problom IF you dont clean them every now and then,,,,

10/04/2006, 06:04 PM	#13
jaze36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Gloversville, N.Y. Posts: 908	Bio balls use aerobic bacteria to break down ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. The reaction stops there there is no further break down of nitrate and then it builds up in you system. Water changes help to control the nitrate and keep it at a reasonable level for a fo tank, but you will never get rid of the nitrate and will never be able to keep them below 10ppm. On the other hand a dsb and live rock use anarobic bacteria to break down nitrates into nitrogen gas which is naturaly expelled from your tank throught interface with the air and tank water. Through this method you will be able to keep nitrate levels very low or undectable in a well balanced system. Added detritus is never good for any system but it is not the underlying reason why bioball are not good for a reef. They do not have the ability to break down nitrate. If you are going to run a fo sytem with no liverock go for it. If you are going for a healthy reef get rid of them, they will only cause you problems. This is the science behind it ,not opinion.

10/04/2006, 06:09 PM	#14
goda Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: fortlauderdale florida area Posts: 1,874	yeah so the break down stops there BUT the liverock can finish it off... id rather have high nitrates then high amonia if somthing dies

10/04/2006, 07:06 PM	#15
jaze36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Gloversville, N.Y. Posts: 908	You don't have to have high either if you properly set up your tank and matain it. If you have bioballs in your tank you can slowly remove them and watch your nitrate level drop. I have done this in my first reef. When I first set it up I took the bad advice of an employee at a lfs and set it up with a trickle filter. The nitrates were regulary over 10ppm and my corals were stressed. After doing a lot of reading I decided to slowly take them out, and I could watch my nitrate level drop. The trickel filter overloads the ability of the live rock to break them down into nitrogen gas. The tank is out of balance. The levels of nitrates in a tank with liverock and a trickel filter is lower than a tank with no live rock and a trickel filter, but not as low as a tank with only live rock. If you need a reference to this other than some nobody on the internet you can pick up John Tullock's book "Natural Reef Aquarium" it is also explained in there. So what you are saying you plan on stressing out your corals on a regular basis with high nitrates just incase something dies and and you can't find it?