New Poll: treating problem dinoflagellates with high pH

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/10/2006, 05:08 AM

I am putting together an article on treating problem dinoflagellates with high pH and want to gather some information on the success that folks have had with this method.

Please only answer in the positive if you are fairly confident that you have or have had dinoflagellates, and not diatoms, cyanobacteria, green algae, or other problems. I know it can be hard to distinguish these, but the poll will be more useful if the incidence of comments on similar organisms (like cyano) is a small portion of the total.

These pest dinoflagellates are usually a snotty, gooey coating on things. They can be clear/white, or green to brown. They also often trap O2 bubbles during photosynthesis.

Thanks in advance.

PS: Here's a related poll discussing the initial incidence of dinos depending on tank pH:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=942412

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/10/2006, 05:14 AM

Comments about how long your treatments lasted would also be useful, whether they were a success or a failure. TIA

boxfishpooalot · 10/10/2006, 05:31 AM

what if you dont want to treat for them because they are not problematic yet? Or Basically im keeping them under controll with macroalgae.

I just got a small 1" patch in my sump, but they dont spread. What would i put for that?

Zoom · 10/10/2006, 07:04 AM

Here what i did so far to try to kill the dino's.
I siphon them out weekly with a water change .
I brush them off the rocks/tank every night and trap most of them in a filter sock in the sump by running my Tunzes at max flow .
I drip kalk two times a day about two gallons in the morning and two gallons at night at very concentrated amounts with a drip bucket.
I use large amounts of carbon in a magnum 350 filter changing it every three days for three weeks.
I pump up my ORP to 350 MV from 300 Mv now for only three days so far .
I usually run the ozone to 25 MGPH now 50 MGPH.
So far i'm gaining some ground but they still there .
MY ph is about 8.2-8.4 it will go up to 8.7 when i drip Kalk . I have the windows at the house open now , better PH.

Here is My reef system.
200 gallon tank 90% SPS 50 Gallon sump with build in Refuge I grow cheato in reverse day light with a 6.7K 65W PC light over the top.
I have Deltec 601 calcium reactor .
Deltec AP902 large skimmer with a ozone .
I run 1 Liter of Rowa in a deltec reactor.
AS for light three 250W 10K xm with two 96W PC 420-460- .
The dino's kill all my snails so far and it stop my corals from growing I did lost about 10 small SPS to STN.
All my fish are not infected by them so far..

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/10/2006, 07:33 AM

I'll add a line just for you, box.

Travis L. Stevens · 10/10/2006, 07:55 AM

Mine came and went with tank age.

mike68 · 10/10/2006, 08:10 AM

i tryed raising ph to 8.5 for a week did little for the dinos after some time my anemones seemed a little stressed so i went back to 8.2 or so.

the best thing i did was add mechanical filtration and clean daily. add carbon and clean rock daily. after about a month they seemed to die off. these things are very frustrating almost made me give up.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/10/2006, 11:13 AM

You might actually need to raise the pH higher than 8.5 if you want to see a quick result, but hopefully more folks will chime in.

boxfishpooalot · 10/10/2006, 12:19 PM

No sticky for this one?

Thanks for adding that line

old salty · 10/10/2006, 03:10 PM

Do they look anything like this?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/11/2006, 09:54 AM

I'm not an expert in identifying it, but it may well be. Does it seem snotty when you push something through it?

raddogz · 10/11/2006, 08:37 PM

Randy - I treated with chemi-clean and turned off the lights for three and a half days. The last half of the third day I did a ten gallon water change and had the lights on for a couple of hours.

Each subsequent day I slowly increased the photo-period.

By the fifth or sixth day I did another five gallon water change.

Skimmer was running and I believe I was running carbon as well after the chemi-clean treatment. All of this took place in my 58g tank.

piercho · 10/12/2006, 12:18 AM

My tank tends to run low levels of alk. All I use to buffer is limewater. At one time I did have dino snot balls up to the size of a quarter showing here and there, sometimes appearing in the branches of Pocs, sometimes just on the rock. Spiking vinegar at 2 Tbls/gal was coincident with a the disappearence of the dinos. But stopping spiking wasn't coincident with a return of dinos.

I was under the impression boosting carbonate alk was the "standard" treatment for dinos?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/12/2006, 01:25 PM

I was under the impression boosting carbonate alk was the "standard" treatment for dinos?

I think elevated pH and reduced nutrients is a lot more common.

shullat · 10/12/2006, 02:20 PM

Going through a bad case of it now, and have so far cleaned the sand bed with a vacuum, shut down the calcium reactor, dripping kalkwasser on the top off unit to elevate my ph from 8.1 to 8.5. I have also added mechanical filtration with carbon and will reduce the photoperiod for a couple of days. Hope all of this does something. Very very frustrating, already lost five acros and zoos and anemone are all closed up.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 10/13/2006, 07:45 AM

The folks in my forum that recently saw some immediate effects from elevated pH were pushing it it much higher than pH 8.5:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=939928

View Poll Results: What has been your experience in treating for problem dinoflagellates?
I've never had them.	12	37.50%
I treated with something other than elevated pH.	5	15.63%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.2 to 8.39, and it worked	2	6.25%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.4 to 8.59, and it worked	0	0%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.6 or higher, and it worked	1	3.13%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.2 to 8.39, and it did not work	1	3.13%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.4 to 8.59, and it did not work	1	3.13%
I treated by raising the maximum daily pH to 8.6 or higher, and it did not work	1	3.13%
I've had dinos, but never treated for them	9	28.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

10/10/2006, 05:08 AM	#1
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	New Poll: treating problem dinoflagellates with high pH I am putting together an article on treating problem dinoflagellates with high pH and want to gather some information on the success that folks have had with this method. Please only answer in the positive if you are fairly confident that you have or have had dinoflagellates, and not diatoms, cyanobacteria, green algae, or other problems. I know it can be hard to distinguish these, but the poll will be more useful if the incidence of comments on similar organisms (like cyano) is a small portion of the total. These pest dinoflagellates are usually a snotty, gooey coating on things. They can be clear/white, or green to brown. They also often trap O2 bubbles during photosynthesis. Thanks in advance. PS: Here's a related poll discussing the initial incidence of dinos depending on tank pH: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=942412 __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/10/2006, 05:14 AM	#2
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Comments about how long your treatments lasted would also be useful, whether they were a success or a failure. TIA __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/10/2006, 05:31 AM	#3
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	what if you dont want to treat for them because they are not problematic yet? Or Basically im keeping them under controll with macroalgae. I just got a small 1" patch in my sump, but they dont spread. What would i put for that? __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

10/10/2006, 07:04 AM	#4
Zoom Premium Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: S.N.J Posts: 5,706	Here what i did so far to try to kill the dino's. I siphon them out weekly with a water change . I brush them off the rocks/tank every night and trap most of them in a filter sock in the sump by running my Tunzes at max flow . I drip kalk two times a day about two gallons in the morning and two gallons at night at very concentrated amounts with a drip bucket. I use large amounts of carbon in a magnum 350 filter changing it every three days for three weeks. I pump up my ORP to 350 MV from 300 Mv now for only three days so far . I usually run the ozone to 25 MGPH now 50 MGPH. So far i'm gaining some ground but they still there . MY ph is about 8.2-8.4 it will go up to 8.7 when i drip Kalk . I have the windows at the house open now , better PH. Here is My reef system. 200 gallon tank 90% SPS 50 Gallon sump with build in Refuge I grow cheato in reverse day light with a 6.7K 65W PC light over the top. I have Deltec 601 calcium reactor . Deltec AP902 large skimmer with a ozone . I run 1 Liter of Rowa in a deltec reactor. AS for light three 250W 10K xm with two 96W PC 420-460- . The dino's kill all my snails so far and it stop my corals from growing I did lost about 10 small SPS to STN. All my fish are not infected by them so far.. Last edited by Zoom; 10/10/2006 at 07:31 AM.

10/10/2006, 07:33 AM	#5
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I'll add a line just for you, box. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/10/2006, 07:55 AM	#6
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	Mine came and went with tank age. __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

10/10/2006, 08:10 AM	#7
mike68 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Roanoke, Va. Posts: 472	i tryed raising ph to 8.5 for a week did little for the dinos after some time my anemones seemed a little stressed so i went back to 8.2 or so. the best thing i did was add mechanical filtration and clean daily. add carbon and clean rock daily. after about a month they seemed to die off. these things are very frustrating almost made me give up.

10/10/2006, 11:13 AM	#8
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	You might actually need to raise the pH higher than 8.5 if you want to see a quick result, but hopefully more folks will chime in. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/10/2006, 12:19 PM	#9
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	No sticky for this one? Thanks for adding that line __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

10/10/2006, 03:10 PM	#10
old salty Genius Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Island of Misfit Toys Posts: 3,131	Do they look anything like this? __________________ "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: Out of the marine aquarium hobby

10/11/2006, 09:54 AM	#11
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I'm not an expert in identifying it, but it may well be. Does it seem snotty when you push something through it? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/11/2006, 08:37 PM	#12
raddogz Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,167	Randy - I treated with chemi-clean and turned off the lights for three and a half days. The last half of the third day I did a ten gallon water change and had the lights on for a couple of hours. Each subsequent day I slowly increased the photo-period. By the fifth or sixth day I did another five gallon water change. Skimmer was running and I believe I was running carbon as well after the chemi-clean treatment. All of this took place in my 58g tank. __________________ Eileen If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style. - Quentin Crisp Current Tank Info: 180g Reef

10/12/2006, 12:18 AM	#13
piercho Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 2,194	My tank tends to run low levels of alk. All I use to buffer is limewater. At one time I did have dino snot balls up to the size of a quarter showing here and there, sometimes appearing in the branches of Pocs, sometimes just on the rock. Spiking vinegar at 2 Tbls/gal was coincident with a the disappearence of the dinos. But stopping spiking wasn't coincident with a return of dinos. I was under the impression boosting carbonate alk was the "standard" treatment for dinos? __________________ Howard Current Tank Info: 65G reef shut down 2007. 25G planted.

10/12/2006, 01:25 PM	#14
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I was under the impression boosting carbonate alk was the "standard" treatment for dinos? I think elevated pH and reduced nutrients is a lot more common. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

10/12/2006, 02:20 PM	#15
shullat Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: in exil Posts: 588	Going through a bad case of it now, and have so far cleaned the sand bed with a vacuum, shut down the calcium reactor, dripping kalkwasser on the top off unit to elevate my ph from 8.1 to 8.5. I have also added mechanical filtration with carbon and will reduce the photoperiod for a couple of days. Hope all of this does something. Very very frustrating, already lost five acros and zoos and anemone are all closed up. __________________ Nick Current Tank Info: a small fishbowl

10/13/2006, 07:45 AM	#16
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	The folks in my forum that recently saw some immediate effects from elevated pH were pushing it it much higher than pH 8.5: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=939928 __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef