Best way to control water parameterS?

thesapper · 10/19/2006, 01:29 PM

What's the best way to get parameters under control without too much effort?

What I'm asking is, basically I have two tanks. 1x 20 gal 1x 90 gal. I have a little Algae, and some low parameters.... pH is 7.8, Ca is low (Not sure exact at this time) SG is 1.024 ... My RO/DI water is a flat pH 7.0. Do I need to buffer it? Should I do it when I mix the water up in the trashcan? What do I use? There are so many different products out there... Is there a better way to do it than manually and not too $$$?

LFS_worker · 10/19/2006, 01:34 PM

there are many options for controlling water perameters neptune controllers are amazing at doing so. these can get quite expensive depending on what you are attempting to control.

little tip that I use and do. Figure out daily consumption then dose based on that. then test weekly then as you get more and more comfortable test monthly.

For calcium and alkalinity look into a calcium reactor (not for the 20)

good luck and enjoy
Brian

thesapper · 10/19/2006, 02:23 PM

What do you mean by daily consumption?

BlueCoast · 10/19/2006, 02:34 PM

I have a 20gal i have been zero-ing in. What i did to start is to mark with a piece of tape the water line and figure out how much was evaporating in a day. Now i know how much evaporates, using the same principle, i started with smallish doses of 2-part supplement(like B-Ionic) & tracked whether my Ph, Alk. and Ca were steady rising or falling. This has helped me prevent large overdoses and large swings in stability. My goal was to slowly reduce these swings until things leveled out.

Naturally, as i am adjusting my dosage, the tank is adjusting as well.. corraline might start growing faster taking up more Ca and driving down Alk.

A big *rule* around here is to not supplement what you cannot test.
If you do not know it is low, why add more? you could be creating a toxic situation.

PH is definately low, i dose my 2-part daily in the morning with some fresh water to dilute it, directly into the tank. I try to never put anything full strength into my tank.

thesapper · 10/19/2006, 02:40 PM

so do you mean you measure the dose according to what evaporated or what's left in the tank? So for example, if my 90 is losing 2-3 gal a day do I dose just for that 3 gal? And a supplement is better than a buffer?

bertoni · 10/19/2006, 06:25 PM

Mostly, you'll need to pick a calcium and alkalinity supplementation scheme, and worry about topoff. I use a peristalitic pump and float switches to dose limewater, which maintains SG, alkalinity, and calcium fairly well. The setup probably cost around $200.

This article might help with calcium and alkalinity:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

RO-DI water doesn't need to be buffered.

thesapper · 10/20/2006, 07:01 AM

Wow! That's alot of info! Real good reading....Thnx alot! I think the Limewater solution would be best, but I'm leaning towrds automation. Money is a factor right now, but I don't want to go cheap and have all the work that goes with it. My tank is a fOWLR at the moment, and I'm not starting corals until the Chemistry is mastered.

What would you recommend as a starting point? 2 part supplements? and what reliable test kit do you use?

I assume to fully automate this I would be looking at a controller (aquacontroller Jr) a Kalkwasser reactor, and maybe a CO2 system?

Liquid Hobby · 10/20/2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thesapper
I think the Limewater solution would be best, but I'm leaning towrds automation. Money is a factor right now

Wants automation, but no money... Efficiency has a price!

I'm about to set up my first reef tank. I plan to do most measuring, testing and balancing manually, to start out. Once I figure it out, I'll be better able to program the correct levels and intervals of supplements.

So, salt water in the tank this weekend (fingers crossed) and a controller unit for Christmas!

Seems to me go kalk water first. Until you have enough corals consuming a large amount of calcium out of the water, there is no need for a cal reactor, at least not yet...

Crawl - Walk - Run

Liquid Hobby · 10/20/2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bertoni
Mostly, you'll need to pick a calcium and alkalinity supplementation scheme, and worry about topoff. I use a peristalitic pump and float switches to dose limewater, which maintains SG, alkalinity, and calcium fairly well. The setup probably cost around $200.

bertoni: So, limewater doses directly to sump and topoff is seperate? I thought it can be combined as a single solution?

BORNTOFLY · 10/20/2006, 11:41 AM

You can combine top off and Limewater you just need to be careful about over dosing. You need to figure out how much limewater you need to keep you parameters uniform and then see how much top off you need a day. For example you may need one gallon of Limewater to keep you tank stable but you evaporate 2 gallons a day in this case I would make one gallon of limewater and add it to a second gallon of RO/DI. As far as adding it to the the tank some drip to the sump and some just add it all at once to the sump. Dripping is probably the safer method as it does not cause any major swings. Stability is mantra that you must obey or you risk disaster (i.e. tank crash).

Rick

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 01:41 PM

I combine topoff and limewater. For getting started, though, a 2-part is hard to beat. I am using Salifert test kits, currently. The SeaTest-FasTest kits haved worked well for me, but are a bit more time-consuming and harder to use.

I wouldn't use a lime reactor, since letting the lime settle has the advantage of allowing impurities to settle.

thesapper · 10/20/2006, 02:39 PM

I will have enough for automation later, but right now I figured I need to learn WHAT to do BEFORE I spend money and kill everything we have. That is also why I'm holding off on corals. I just wanted to know how to get my parameters correct now, so that I'll feel more comfortable with automating everything later.

I use at the moment the strips. I have difficulty reading the colors on either the strips or the liquid tests. I would like to hear what everyone thought about which test kits were best and what to test for with what kit. Aslo the 2 parts there are so many things out there. I have already spent money on tings that when I get them home I find they are worthless.

So the SeaTest kits are the best? Thnx for all the input guys....

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 02:42 PM

I've used B-Ionic for years, and it has worked well. I don't know of a 2-part that has been a problem. C-Balance, Kent Tech CB, and I believe Warner are all competitors that seem reasonable. There's also the DIY approach, although that involves significant startup cost.

thesapper · 10/20/2006, 02:46 PM

So to up my Ca and Alk use those? Do I need to worry about mag and Iodine too? Or is it a All in one?

fufi5 · 10/20/2006, 03:37 PM

Info on B-Ionic 2 part http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ic.asp?CartId=
you can also check Two Little Fishies C-Balance, Kent Marine Tech CB Part A & B and other ones
I use www.oceansblend.com/2_part.html

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 05:36 PM

You might need to dose magnesium from time to time. Each tank differs in its consumption rate. B-Ionic does supply some magnesium, but it's only an approximation. I test magnesium every couple of months and dose as needed.

I've never seen any data that suggests iodine is useful to dose for most any reef tank. This article might help:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

10/19/2006, 01:29 PM	#1
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	Best way to control water parameterS? What's the best way to get parameters under control without too much effort? What I'm asking is, basically I have two tanks. 1x 20 gal 1x 90 gal. I have a little Algae, and some low parameters.... pH is 7.8, Ca is low (Not sure exact at this time) SG is 1.024 ... My RO/DI water is a flat pH 7.0. Do I need to buffer it? Should I do it when I mix the water up in the trashcan? What do I use? There are so many different products out there... Is there a better way to do it than manually and not too $$$?

10/19/2006, 01:34 PM	#2
LFS_worker 'ignoramus maximus' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rochester Posts: 1,481	there are many options for controlling water perameters neptune controllers are amazing at doing so. these can get quite expensive depending on what you are attempting to control. little tip that I use and do. Figure out daily consumption then dose based on that. then test weekly then as you get more and more comfortable test monthly. For calcium and alkalinity look into a calcium reactor (not for the 20) good luck and enjoy Brian __________________ Save a reef, Grow a coral - Brian Borate Current Tank Info: I dont have any tanks :)

10/19/2006, 06:25 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Mostly, you'll need to pick a calcium and alkalinity supplementation scheme, and worry about topoff. I use a peristalitic pump and float switches to dose limewater, which maintains SG, alkalinity, and calcium fairly well. The setup probably cost around $200. This article might help with calcium and alkalinity: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm RO-DI water doesn't need to be buffered. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/20/2006, 01:41 PM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I combine topoff and limewater. For getting started, though, a 2-part is hard to beat. I am using Salifert test kits, currently. The SeaTest-FasTest kits haved worked well for me, but are a bit more time-consuming and harder to use. I wouldn't use a lime reactor, since letting the lime settle has the advantage of allowing impurities to settle. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/20/2006, 02:42 PM	#13
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I've used B-Ionic for years, and it has worked well. I don't know of a 2-part that has been a problem. C-Balance, Kent Tech CB, and I believe Warner are all competitors that seem reasonable. There's also the DIY approach, although that involves significant startup cost. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/19/2006, 02:23 PM	#3
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	What do you mean by daily consumption?

10/19/2006, 02:34 PM	#4
BlueCoast Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: St. Pete (FL) Posts: 982	I have a 20gal i have been zero-ing in. What i did to start is to mark with a piece of tape the water line and figure out how much was evaporating in a day. Now i know how much evaporates, using the same principle, i started with smallish doses of 2-part supplement(like B-Ionic) & tracked whether my Ph, Alk. and Ca were steady rising or falling. This has helped me prevent large overdoses and large swings in stability. My goal was to slowly reduce these swings until things leveled out. Naturally, as i am adjusting my dosage, the tank is adjusting as well.. corraline might start growing faster taking up more Ca and driving down Alk. A big rule around here is to not supplement what you cannot test. If you do not know it is low, why add more? you could be creating a toxic situation. PH is definately low, i dose my 2-part daily in the morning with some fresh water to dilute it, directly into the tank. I try to never put anything full strength into my tank.

10/19/2006, 02:40 PM	#5
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	so do you mean you measure the dose according to what evaporated or what's left in the tank? So for example, if my 90 is losing 2-3 gal a day do I dose just for that 3 gal? And a supplement is better than a buffer?

10/20/2006, 07:01 AM	#7
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	Wow! That's alot of info! Real good reading....Thnx alot! I think the Limewater solution would be best, but I'm leaning towrds automation. Money is a factor right now, but I don't want to go cheap and have all the work that goes with it. My tank is a fOWLR at the moment, and I'm not starting corals until the Chemistry is mastered. What would you recommend as a starting point? 2 part supplements? and what reliable test kit do you use? I assume to fully automate this I would be looking at a controller (aquacontroller Jr) a Kalkwasser reactor, and maybe a CO2 system?

10/20/2006, 11:41 AM	#10
BORNTOFLY Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 112	You can combine top off and Limewater you just need to be careful about over dosing. You need to figure out how much limewater you need to keep you parameters uniform and then see how much top off you need a day. For example you may need one gallon of Limewater to keep you tank stable but you evaporate 2 gallons a day in this case I would make one gallon of limewater and add it to a second gallon of RO/DI. As far as adding it to the the tank some drip to the sump and some just add it all at once to the sump. Dripping is probably the safer method as it does not cause any major swings. Stability is mantra that you must obey or you risk disaster (i.e. tank crash). Rick

10/20/2006, 02:39 PM	#12
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	I will have enough for automation later, but right now I figured I need to learn WHAT to do BEFORE I spend money and kill everything we have. That is also why I'm holding off on corals. I just wanted to know how to get my parameters correct now, so that I'll feel more comfortable with automating everything later. I use at the moment the strips. I have difficulty reading the colors on either the strips or the liquid tests. I would like to hear what everyone thought about which test kits were best and what to test for with what kit. Aslo the 2 parts there are so many things out there. I have already spent money on tings that when I get them home I find they are worthless. So the SeaTest kits are the best? Thnx for all the input guys....

10/20/2006, 02:46 PM	#14
thesapper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 33	So to up my Ca and Alk use those? Do I need to worry about mag and Iodine too? Or is it a All in one?

10/20/2006, 03:37 PM	#15
fufi5 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 60	Info on B-Ionic 2 part http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ic.asp?CartId= you can also check Two Little Fishies C-Balance, Kent Marine Tech CB Part A & B and other ones I use www.oceansblend.com/2_part.html __________________ It's not a fish tank, it's an ecosystem. I'm Rick James Btch!! Current Tank Info: 20gal (w/softies)

10/20/2006, 05:36 PM	#16
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You might need to dose magnesium from time to time. Each tank differs in its consumption rate. B-Ionic does supply some magnesium, but it's only an approximation. I test magnesium every couple of months and dose as needed. I've never seen any data that suggests iodine is useful to dose for most any reef tank. This article might help: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm __________________ Jonathan Bertoni