Hootie RIP

Capt. Nemo · 10/25/2006, 04:57 PM

Hello to my fellow marine brothers and sisters,

I lost a dear fish friend of mine this past weekend. My beloved porcuppine puffer passed away. Both my wife and I became very attached to and fond of the little guy. His name was Hootie and he was our first fish and first pet. He was 3 months old. Ich took his life. I am now struggling with deciding if I should even continue with the hobby and get a new fish. I felt like I failed him. What I dont understand is how he could have developed ich after being ich free for 3 months. I'm just new to the hobby so correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that a fish could only contract ich from another fish. He was the only fish in my tank for 3 months along with some snails and shrimp. Where did the ich come from? I'm really confused and at a loss. Thanks for your help in enightening me on this subject.

Gary

kraze3 · 10/25/2006, 05:10 PM

Ich can be introduced by any new addition to your tank. It can be on snails, hermits, corals. Although they cannot be a host for ich it is possible for them to bring it into your aquarium. Was there any recent additions?

Ich is invisible to the eye except for one stage in its life cycle. It can also infect the fish in the gills where you cannot see it. When you noticed the fish had ich did you take any actions to help the fish. A hospital tank and hyposalinity should have taken care of the problem.

Dont be discouraged. Even experienced reefers run into problems and downfalls. Keep your tank fishless for 6-8 weeks then go shopping for a new pet. If the tank is fishless for that time the ich will have no hosts and should eventually die off. I also suggest investing in a QT tank for any new inhabitants you are going to add to your tank

this is an awesome hobby and if you give it up you will miss it
Good Luck

Heres a QT link
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Sk8r · 10/25/2006, 05:29 PM

It's hard. They're personalities. And they are, after their own kind, different.

Being a novice at this, you'll make some mistakes. The best thing you can do is take the best advice, and quarantining is the safest thing for a new tank.

Very possibly the little guy had a case that was just muddling along at low level, and then if there was a chemistry crisis in the tank [new tanks do that a lot] or a temperature flux, or any stress at all, he broke out in it and got a thundering bad case.

The longer you're at this, and the older your tank, the less of a threat that disease is. I've been at this 40 years or so. I set up a new tank this year, had a brief ich episode, lasted 3 days, everybody lived, and I haven't seen it since. I also haven't lost a fish to ich or any other disease in something like 20 years: I say this simply to make the basic point that reading the symptoms early enough to treat is a matter of experience that, Lord knows, I've gotten the hard way, because early on, I did lose some fish---to ich, to velvet, to things I never id'ed. This last week I lost one because I let a friend give me a fish that promptly proved aggressive. I knew better. I got talked into it. I should have followed my instincts and said a firm no. I took a chance, and lost a favorite fish. So yes, it happens. You learn where the risks are, and how to minimize them, and sometimes you still let your guard down and get stung. I was able to catch the rascal and get him back to the lfs, and my other fish are safe, now, and now I've learned another lesson, and I won't fall for that again.

I hope you'll stay with the hobby. The hobby benefits by people who don't treat their fish as decorations, but who do care when they lose one. People who care become really good reefers, because they're determined not to lose fish. People like that also become reservoirs of knowledge, so when some new guy writes in with a problem, you can help him, or at least keep him going.

Try again. Use the qt religiously while your tank is new and prone to glitches, if you never use it again. [And having found out it works, you'll probably not want to omit that step.] You'll find another appealing puffer-face out there that needs a safe home you can provide.

LittlePuff · 10/25/2006, 10:13 PM

If you get another porc puffer, get a larger tank. They will get 18-20"

Shagsbeard · 10/26/2006, 05:27 AM

All these comments are great.... larger tank is a must... I wont even get a porc for my 75.

Consider upping the next one's diet. Poor diet is stressful. Dose with Selcon or some other fortifier, and feed as large a variety of food as possible. Mysis and Brine shrimps day after day will cause them to miss out on essentials. Better food means more resistance to things like Ick.

Nano Nana · 10/26/2006, 06:49 AM

I feel for you. The first fish that started me into this hobby was a dogface with more charm than I have ever seen in a fish. When he died from ick I was ready to give up also. There was lots I didn't know back then and since I have really looked into any purchase carefully. That being said I did begin to concentrate on more corals than fish after the dogface experience. Good luck and don't give up.

Capt. Nemo · 10/26/2006, 01:27 PM

Thanks to all of you for your thougtfulness, support and for offering such excellent advice. I'm willing and ready to start again. Let's start with eradicating the ich. I've been told that I need to let my tank lay fallow for the next 4-6 weeks. What exactly is meant by fallow. Ofcourse, I must keep the system in operation, including skimmer during this time. Do I need to remove any inverts from the display tank. The parasite needs a fish host so I assume its not necessary to have to remove them. I also need to clean up my hospital tank. I did use this same tank as my q-tank. However, whereas I used it to quarantine the puffer I did not q the inverts. Lesson learned. The ich must have been introduced to the display tank through the inverts. I'm going to dump the water from the q-tank and then clean it up. Do I need to add vinegar to RO water to clean this tank to be sure I kill any residual ich or do I just use RO water for my cleanup. Dont want to take any chances. Here is one more question. I have been instructed in the past to use aged water from the display tank in my q-tank. However, I assume that I will not be able to transfer any water from the display tank to the q-tank until the 4-6 weeks are up. Does this also mean that I can not run a sponge filter in the main tank's sump for this period of time. I would use this sponge filter for bio-filtration for my q-tank. This means I would have to wait until the 4-6 weeks are up before placing the sponge filter in the sump of the main tank. I would then have to let it run for another week or two before its ready for the q-tank. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks for your advice and guidance.

Gary

Capt. Nemo · 10/28/2006, 03:35 PM

bump.

GL · 10/28/2006, 04:09 PM

If your talking about cleaning your QT tank you can use chlorox if you want to eradicate everything. Just rinse it good, let it totally dry out then rinse it again. The chlorine dissipates so it will not be a problem.

Remember, water does not contain much if any bacteria, so using water from your main tank does not mean a lot unless you are moving livestock from the main tank to the QT tank, if you are the only benefit would be the fact that the water parms are exactly the same. If it is something new you are introducing then you just need to acclimate it correctly.

By putting a filter in your sump for a few days prior to setting up the QT you are building up the bacteria in the filter. Once you move it to your QT you should have enough bacteria in the filter to sustain the bio load in the QT tank, provided it is not stocked to heavy all at once.

CarmieJo · 10/28/2006, 05:47 PM

Just remember that ich is a parasite and not a bacteria. Ich has a freeswimming stage so I believe that you could transfer it with just water alone. It will die off in about 6 weeks without a host.

Capt. Nemo · 10/28/2006, 08:14 PM

Thanks. I guess what I will do is put a sponge filter in the main tank's sump and keep it there for 6 weeks until the ich has died off and then transfer the filter to the QT tank. How does that sound? Or do I wait the 6 weeks until the ich has been eradicated and then add the sponge filter to the sump and then transfer to the QT after the few days of building enough bacteria?

10/25/2006, 04:57 PM	#1
Capt. Nemo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,102	Hootie RIP Hello to my fellow marine brothers and sisters, I lost a dear fish friend of mine this past weekend. My beloved porcuppine puffer passed away. Both my wife and I became very attached to and fond of the little guy. His name was Hootie and he was our first fish and first pet. He was 3 months old. Ich took his life. I am now struggling with deciding if I should even continue with the hobby and get a new fish. I felt like I failed him. What I dont understand is how he could have developed ich after being ich free for 3 months. I'm just new to the hobby so correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that a fish could only contract ich from another fish. He was the only fish in my tank for 3 months along with some snails and shrimp. Where did the ich come from? I'm really confused and at a loss. Thanks for your help in enightening me on this subject. Gary

10/25/2006, 05:29 PM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	It's hard. They're personalities. And they are, after their own kind, different. Being a novice at this, you'll make some mistakes. The best thing you can do is take the best advice, and quarantining is the safest thing for a new tank. Very possibly the little guy had a case that was just muddling along at low level, and then if there was a chemistry crisis in the tank [new tanks do that a lot] or a temperature flux, or any stress at all, he broke out in it and got a thundering bad case. The longer you're at this, and the older your tank, the less of a threat that disease is. I've been at this 40 years or so. I set up a new tank this year, had a brief ich episode, lasted 3 days, everybody lived, and I haven't seen it since. I also haven't lost a fish to ich or any other disease in something like 20 years: I say this simply to make the basic point that reading the symptoms early enough to treat is a matter of experience that, Lord knows, I've gotten the hard way, because early on, I did lose some fish---to ich, to velvet, to things I never id'ed. This last week I lost one because I let a friend give me a fish that promptly proved aggressive. I knew better. I got talked into it. I should have followed my instincts and said a firm no. I took a chance, and lost a favorite fish. So yes, it happens. You learn where the risks are, and how to minimize them, and sometimes you still let your guard down and get stung. I was able to catch the rascal and get him back to the lfs, and my other fish are safe, now, and now I've learned another lesson, and I won't fall for that again. I hope you'll stay with the hobby. The hobby benefits by people who don't treat their fish as decorations, but who do care when they lose one. People who care become really good reefers, because they're determined not to lose fish. People like that also become reservoirs of knowledge, so when some new guy writes in with a problem, you can help him, or at least keep him going. Try again. Use the qt religiously while your tank is new and prone to glitches, if you never use it again. [And having found out it works, you'll probably not want to omit that step.] You'll find another appealing puffer-face out there that needs a safe home you can provide. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

10/25/2006, 10:13 PM	#4
LittlePuff Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Peoria,IL Posts: 685	If you get another porc puffer, get a larger tank. They will get 18-20" __________________ 90gal FOWLR (planning) 55gal FOWLR

10/26/2006, 06:49 AM	#6
Nano Nana Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Behind you! Posts: 56	I feel for you. The first fish that started me into this hobby was a dogface with more charm than I have ever seen in a fish. When he died from ick I was ready to give up also. There was lots I didn't know back then and since I have really looked into any purchase carefully. That being said I did begin to concentrate on more corals than fish after the dogface experience. Good luck and don't give up. __________________ Definition of a skeleton: (n) A pile of bones with the person pecked off. "I am proud to say I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." -- Albert Einstien Current Tank Info: 5 tanks

10/28/2006, 04:09 PM	#9
GL Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NE Pa Posts: 921	If your talking about cleaning your QT tank you can use chlorox if you want to eradicate everything. Just rinse it good, let it totally dry out then rinse it again. The chlorine dissipates so it will not be a problem. Remember, water does not contain much if any bacteria, so using water from your main tank does not mean a lot unless you are moving livestock from the main tank to the QT tank, if you are the only benefit would be the fact that the water parms are exactly the same. If it is something new you are introducing then you just need to acclimate it correctly. By putting a filter in your sump for a few days prior to setting up the QT you are building up the bacteria in the filter. Once you move it to your QT you should have enough bacteria in the filter to sustain the bio load in the QT tank, provided it is not stocked to heavy all at once. __________________ Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!' Current Tank Info: 90 AGA, 30 gal sump, 6 x 54w T5, ER cs8-1

10/25/2006, 05:10 PM	#2
kraze3 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: RI Posts: 2,373	Ich can be introduced by any new addition to your tank. It can be on snails, hermits, corals. Although they cannot be a host for ich it is possible for them to bring it into your aquarium. Was there any recent additions? Ich is invisible to the eye except for one stage in its life cycle. It can also infect the fish in the gills where you cannot see it. When you noticed the fish had ich did you take any actions to help the fish. A hospital tank and hyposalinity should have taken care of the problem. Dont be discouraged. Even experienced reefers run into problems and downfalls. Keep your tank fishless for 6-8 weeks then go shopping for a new pet. If the tank is fishless for that time the ich will have no hosts and should eventually die off. I also suggest investing in a QT tank for any new inhabitants you are going to add to your tank this is an awesome hobby and if you give it up you will miss it Good Luck Heres a QT link http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

10/26/2006, 05:27 AM	#5
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	All these comments are great.... larger tank is a must... I wont even get a porc for my 75. Consider upping the next one's diet. Poor diet is stressful. Dose with Selcon or some other fortifier, and feed as large a variety of food as possible. Mysis and Brine shrimps day after day will cause them to miss out on essentials. Better food means more resistance to things like Ick.

10/26/2006, 01:27 PM	#7
Capt. Nemo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,102	Thanks to all of you for your thougtfulness, support and for offering such excellent advice. I'm willing and ready to start again. Let's start with eradicating the ich. I've been told that I need to let my tank lay fallow for the next 4-6 weeks. What exactly is meant by fallow. Ofcourse, I must keep the system in operation, including skimmer during this time. Do I need to remove any inverts from the display tank. The parasite needs a fish host so I assume its not necessary to have to remove them. I also need to clean up my hospital tank. I did use this same tank as my q-tank. However, whereas I used it to quarantine the puffer I did not q the inverts. Lesson learned. The ich must have been introduced to the display tank through the inverts. I'm going to dump the water from the q-tank and then clean it up. Do I need to add vinegar to RO water to clean this tank to be sure I kill any residual ich or do I just use RO water for my cleanup. Dont want to take any chances. Here is one more question. I have been instructed in the past to use aged water from the display tank in my q-tank. However, I assume that I will not be able to transfer any water from the display tank to the q-tank until the 4-6 weeks are up. Does this also mean that I can not run a sponge filter in the main tank's sump for this period of time. I would use this sponge filter for bio-filtration for my q-tank. This means I would have to wait until the 4-6 weeks are up before placing the sponge filter in the sump of the main tank. I would then have to let it run for another week or two before its ready for the q-tank. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks for your advice and guidance. Gary

10/28/2006, 03:35 PM	#8
Capt. Nemo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,102	bump.

10/28/2006, 05:47 PM	#10
CarmieJo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 390	Just remember that ich is a parasite and not a bacteria. Ich has a freeswimming stage so I believe that you could transfer it with just water alone. It will die off in about 6 weeks without a host. __________________ Carmie Only disasters happen fast! Current Tank Info: 54 gal AGA corner tank with a Solaris LED fixture; NanoCube 24

10/28/2006, 08:14 PM	#11
Capt. Nemo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,102	Thanks. I guess what I will do is put a sponge filter in the main tank's sump and keep it there for 6 weeks until the ich has died off and then transfer the filter to the QT tank. How does that sound? Or do I wait the 6 weeks until the ich has been eradicated and then add the sponge filter to the sump and then transfer to the QT after the few days of building enough bacteria?