aragalive or dead sand

july865 · 10/29/2006, 11:29 AM

does aragalive offer any benifits?? i mean realy? compared to buying dead sand?.
.
should buying sand that contains micro organisms be better than buying dead sand, then add the microbs?
.
i am highly considering going BSB. which is void of everything. and no buffering what so ever.
.
someone on RC mentioned that you can get this bottle of (???) and was supposed to be the wonder "new tank break-in and help seed the system.
.
im not interested in getting a cup of someones tank to add to mine. mainly because of the BSB issue.

nmprisons · 10/29/2006, 11:32 AM

I used it to start my tank ... never saw a cycle. if you are doing a DSB, I don't know, but for a SSB it worked for me

LukFox · 10/29/2006, 01:37 PM

A good deal of the critters in Aragalive are most likely dead by the time it gets to your tank, so all you really have is sand and rotting organisms. It's best to get regular aragonite and then the critters from your live rock will soon colonize the sand bed on their own.

That "bottle" may have been biospira? I've used it before and saw a small 4 day cycle. It's great for hospital tanks and the like but for a display tank, it isnt exactly the cheapest or most necessary method.

JamesJR · 10/29/2006, 02:31 PM

I would buy some dry aragonite sand and then add a couple of scoops of sand from an established tank once you fill your tank with water. It would be cheaper and would work even better.

jag1979 · 10/29/2006, 04:34 PM

ask yourself two questions, if the answer is yes to both go w/ live, if not go w/ dead

do you want to spend a lot of money on sand? Do you want a fast or nonexistent cycle?

july865 · 10/29/2006, 08:20 PM

LukFox
i dont think its biospira
.
JamesJR
thank for the advise, but i am going to try and shy away from adding someone elses critters in my system.
.
jag1979
dont get me wrong. money is always a factor, just trying to see if i can seed black sand without adding different substrate. and time is not really that important. i think i can stand the wait, if i am pleased with the results.

xcreonx · 10/29/2006, 10:49 PM

When I moved 1/2way across country I restarted my sandbed in my new tank with Aragalive. No cycle whatsoever. I had about 40lbs of live rock in it as well. Fish and corals had to go in two days later (drove 1500 miles IN ONE SHOT to get them there!).

I got 4 bags of the sand for trade from a friend who runs a coral store. But I would definitely buy it if the situation arises again.

I do agree with buying dead sand then seeding it with some live, but the Aragalive is a good alternative.

nmprisons · 10/29/2006, 11:38 PM

LukFox: Please don't give advice on something you don't have first hand knowledge of, it will only confuse folks. Arag-Alive does not have any "critters" in it and so there won't be dead ones when you add it. It is there aragonite sand, in salt water, with bacteria added to aid in cycling the tank. It is not packaged sand from tanks or the ocean.

LukFox · 10/30/2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nmprisons
LukFox: Please don't give advice on something you don't have first hand knowledge of, it will only confuse folks. Arag-Alive does not have any "critters" in it and so there won't be dead ones when you add it. It is there aragonite sand, in salt water, with bacteria added to aid in cycling the tank. It is not packaged sand from tanks or the ocean.

Seeing as a critter is just any living creature, it seems bacteria would fit under this. A question though - what exactly is keeping the bacteria alive in bags for extended periods?

fishysteve · 10/30/2006, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Seeing as a critter is just any living creature, it seems bacteria would fit under this. A question though - what exactly is keeping the bacteria alive in bags for extended periods?

Then what would the benefit of Biospira be. That is live bacteria in a bottle. I worked at a fish store for about five years. Cycled many tanks. When Biospira came on the market it was a one day process instead of weeks. Aragalive and Biospira in my experience work very well.

LukFox · 10/30/2006, 05:50 PM

Fishysteve, I know what biospira is and it has worked IME. However, the bacteria can survive in a bottle because it is meant to be refridgerated, thus lowering the rate of metabolism of the bacteria. Even like this, biospira still has an expiration date and is usually only good for about 6 months as they can not last like this forever.

All I'm asking is why does the bacteria not die in bags?

nmprisons · 10/30/2006, 06:02 PM

Arag-Alive has an expiration date as well

JamesJR · 10/30/2006, 06:19 PM

You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

GobyJohnKenobi · 10/30/2006, 07:55 PM

I've only used Arag Alive in setting up all of my tanks: a 5 ,an 8, and a 15 gallon.

I think it is a good looking product, and I hate rinsing sand.

If you want a black sand bed, like the way their product looks, and you are willing to spend the money, then it's a fine choice.

IMO & E it wont affect the cycle all that much one way or another, and will need as much time as dead sand for the worms and "critters" to inhabit it.

If it was me, I'd try to stick with aragonite sand.

xcreonx · 10/30/2006, 09:01 PM

"If you want a black sand bed, like the way their product looks"

There's different kinds of Aragalive, not just the black sand. I used the Fiji Pink sand in my tank. Nice stuff.

romunov · 10/31/2006, 12:52 AM

Most of the time, aragalive isn't so live as one might think. I would (and do) go with the dead sand.

JamesJR · 10/31/2006, 10:22 AM

The more I think about it, I am going bare bottom in my new tank.

july865 · 11/01/2006, 08:59 PM

are there other things to use other than biospira?

affableamerican · 11/02/2006, 01:07 AM

If you can't find oolitic sand at hardware stores anymore, is aragalive a good alternative? Is it fine, "sugar sand?"

Crazysps · 11/02/2006, 08:01 AM

I think it has to do with the fact that bacteria really only has to go through glycolsis to create their energy source and oxygen is not needed for this. That in mind the bacteria should be able to live in these bags or bottles for some pro longed period. I have used arag-alive in all the tanks I started with a sand bed and I also think it worked great.

JamesJR · 11/02/2006, 08:06 AM

Well, the bacteria may be facultative aerobes or they may produce endospores too. That may be a possibility too.

july865 · 11/02/2006, 09:44 PM

on here
.
sonyone have experience with this "gray coast" aragonite??
.
and did anyone else have info on what else i can use to seed this with??

nanoreefbro · 11/14/2006, 01:00 AM

I was thinking of using this one myself for a nanocube..

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=CS0821

TekCat · 11/14/2006, 05:02 AM

LR will seed dead sand with bacteria, so really, why waste money on "bagged" with bacteria sand? ...and noone really knows how much bacteria still alive in aragalive sand after sitting in warehouses, outside lots, on a store shelf....

jmo

10/29/2006, 11:29 AM	#1
july865 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: So. Cal. Temecula Posts: 796	aragalive or dead sand does aragalive offer any benifits?? i mean realy? compared to buying dead sand?. . should buying sand that contains micro organisms be better than buying dead sand, then add the microbs? . i am highly considering going BSB. which is void of everything. and no buffering what so ever. . someone on RC mentioned that you can get this bottle of (???) and was supposed to be the wonder "new tank break-in and help seed the system. . im not interested in getting a cup of someones tank to add to mine. mainly because of the BSB issue.

10/29/2006, 11:32 AM	#2
nmprisons Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,520	I used it to start my tank ... never saw a cycle. if you are doing a DSB, I don't know, but for a SSB it worked for me __________________ 25gallon tank up and cycling since 7/29/06 Mostly LPS reef (lords, micros, duncans, etc.) with some ricordia florida and zoanthids. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon, 28lbs of Marshall Island and Kaelini Live Rock, 2x65 power compact lighting, IFS Protein Skimmer

10/29/2006, 02:31 PM	#4
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	I would buy some dry aragonite sand and then add a couple of scoops of sand from an established tank once you fill your tank with water. It would be cheaper and would work even better. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

10/29/2006, 10:49 PM	#7
xcreonx Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,362	When I moved 1/2way across country I restarted my sandbed in my new tank with Aragalive. No cycle whatsoever. I had about 40lbs of live rock in it as well. Fish and corals had to go in two days later (drove 1500 miles IN ONE SHOT to get them there!). I got 4 bags of the sand for trade from a friend who runs a coral store. But I would definitely buy it if the situation arises again. I do agree with buying dead sand then seeding it with some live, but the Aragalive is a good alternative. __________________ Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. -Mark Twain Current Tank Info: 90g shallow with H. Barbouri Seahorses

10/29/2006, 11:38 PM	#8
nmprisons Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,520	LukFox: Please don't give advice on something you don't have first hand knowledge of, it will only confuse folks. Arag-Alive does not have any "critters" in it and so there won't be dead ones when you add it. It is there aragonite sand, in salt water, with bacteria added to aid in cycling the tank. It is not packaged sand from tanks or the ocean. __________________ 25gallon tank up and cycling since 7/29/06 Mostly LPS reef (lords, micros, duncans, etc.) with some ricordia florida and zoanthids. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon, 28lbs of Marshall Island and Kaelini Live Rock, 2x65 power compact lighting, IFS Protein Skimmer

10/29/2006, 01:37 PM	#3
LukFox Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Gatos, CA Posts: 3,502	A good deal of the critters in Aragalive are most likely dead by the time it gets to your tank, so all you really have is sand and rotting organisms. It's best to get regular aragonite and then the critters from your live rock will soon colonize the sand bed on their own. That "bottle" may have been biospira? I've used it before and saw a small 4 day cycle. It's great for hospital tanks and the like but for a display tank, it isnt exactly the cheapest or most necessary method.

10/29/2006, 04:34 PM	#5
jag1979 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 982	ask yourself two questions, if the answer is yes to both go w/ live, if not go w/ dead do you want to spend a lot of money on sand? Do you want a fast or nonexistent cycle?

10/29/2006, 08:20 PM	#6
july865 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: So. Cal. Temecula Posts: 796	LukFox i dont think its biospira . JamesJR thank for the advise, but i am going to try and shy away from adding someone elses critters in my system. . jag1979 dont get me wrong. money is always a factor, just trying to see if i can seed black sand without adding different substrate. and time is not really that important. i think i can stand the wait, if i am pleased with the results.

10/30/2006, 05:50 PM	#11
LukFox Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Gatos, CA Posts: 3,502	Fishysteve, I know what biospira is and it has worked IME. However, the bacteria can survive in a bottle because it is meant to be refridgerated, thus lowering the rate of metabolism of the bacteria. Even like this, biospira still has an expiration date and is usually only good for about 6 months as they can not last like this forever. All I'm asking is why does the bacteria not die in bags?

10/30/2006, 06:02 PM	#12
nmprisons Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,520	Arag-Alive has an expiration date as well __________________ 25gallon tank up and cycling since 7/29/06 Mostly LPS reef (lords, micros, duncans, etc.) with some ricordia florida and zoanthids. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon, 28lbs of Marshall Island and Kaelini Live Rock, 2x65 power compact lighting, IFS Protein Skimmer

10/30/2006, 06:19 PM	#13
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

10/30/2006, 07:55 PM	#14
GobyJohnKenobi Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 413	I've only used Arag Alive in setting up all of my tanks: a 5 ,an 8, and a 15 gallon. I think it is a good looking product, and I hate rinsing sand. If you want a black sand bed, like the way their product looks, and you are willing to spend the money, then it's a fine choice. IMO & E it wont affect the cycle all that much one way or another, and will need as much time as dead sand for the worms and "critters" to inhabit it. If it was me, I'd try to stick with aragonite sand.

10/30/2006, 09:01 PM	#15
xcreonx Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,362	"If you want a black sand bed, like the way their product looks" There's different kinds of Aragalive, not just the black sand. I used the Fiji Pink sand in my tank. Nice stuff. __________________ Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. -Mark Twain Current Tank Info: 90g shallow with H. Barbouri Seahorses

10/31/2006, 12:52 AM	#16
romunov Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,453	Most of the time, aragalive isn't so live as one might think. I would (and do) go with the dead sand. __________________ Life is too short to learn everything from experience. "And ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free."

10/31/2006, 10:22 AM	#17
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	The more I think about it, I am going bare bottom in my new tank. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

11/01/2006, 08:59 PM	#18
july865 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: So. Cal. Temecula Posts: 796	are there other things to use other than biospira?

11/02/2006, 01:07 AM	#19
affableamerican Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 118	If you can't find oolitic sand at hardware stores anymore, is aragalive a good alternative? Is it fine, "sugar sand?" __________________ I am an American aquarium drinker Current Tank Info: 45g Oceanic cube, 15g sump/fuge

11/02/2006, 08:01 AM	#20
Crazysps Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 160	I think it has to do with the fact that bacteria really only has to go through glycolsis to create their energy source and oxygen is not needed for this. That in mind the bacteria should be able to live in these bags or bottles for some pro longed period. I have used arag-alive in all the tanks I started with a sand bed and I also think it worked great.

11/02/2006, 08:06 AM	#21
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	Well, the bacteria may be facultative aerobes or they may produce endospores too. That may be a possibility too. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

11/02/2006, 09:44 PM	#22
july865 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: So. Cal. Temecula Posts: 796	on here . sonyone have experience with this "gray coast" aragonite?? . and did anyone else have info on what else i can use to seed this with??

11/14/2006, 01:00 AM	#23
nanoreefbro Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 416	I was thinking of using this one myself for a nanocube.. http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=CS0821

11/14/2006, 05:02 AM	#24
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	LR will seed dead sand with bacteria, so really, why waste money on "bagged" with bacteria sand? ...and noone really knows how much bacteria still alive in aragalive sand after sitting in warehouses, outside lots, on a store shelf.... jmo