Surging going on...... help !

[JungleJoe]

Hi, took a hiatus from tanks for about 8 yrs, decided to get back into it, went back into it whole hog.

I have an all glass 120 48x24x24

It's double punched with dual overflows, and the all glass megaflow kits installed.

Am using the allgass Mega 4 wet dry

Return pumps are 2 mag 12's

Have 1 Berlin skimmer with ehiem 1060 in sump, skimmer located outside of wet dry, dumps into sump area where return pumps are.

I am having alot of surging from the intake side, I 1st was running a single mag 12 and tee'd it , decided I needed more so I added the second pump.

I have messed with the levels of the overflow drains, but I can't seem to dial it in, thus I have more noise than I'd like.

Any ideas ???

thanks in advance !

[scarson61]

The only way I was able to get rid of the "flushing" noise in my tank was to reduce the flow throught the sump. I'd use only one of the Mag 12s for the return and find a way to use the other mag 12 for just flow (like a closed loop). Reducing the flow in the sump will also help if you run your protien skimmer or Refugium (more contact time). Hope this helps

[JungleJoe]

Well originally I had 1 mag 12 that tee'd and feed both overflow returns, but i still had some surging then, so I ended up raising the drains to slow it down. I then added another mag 12 since I wanted alot more current in the tank and the 1 mag did not give me enough circulation, nor was my turnover time really good.


I've raised the drains again, and it helps the surging , I am running the protien skimmer from the sump and returning it to the sump, but I draw from the area under the biofilter, and my return is where the pumps are, twas the only way I could set it up and make it work.

I have to plumb in my coralife 36w UV, I am going to use a canister and I was thinking of drawing from the sump and then do a J tube return directly into the tank, or do you think I should draw from the tank and return to the tank ????

Not sure which way I am going to go with the UV yet.


thanks for your input so far

[HDAlien]

This is a little OT to your question, but I see you mentioned wet/dry. I got back in a few years ago and went the same route and fought nitrates from day 1. My new system is live rock and refugium and all my numbers are perfect. Just my $0.02.

HDAlien

[UCanDoIt]

to Reef Central and back to the Hobby...

I would not run more than ONE Mag12 as a return pump on your tank as this is more than enough water passing through your sump. For circulation within the tank you need at least 2 powerheads for water movements on a 4ft tank. Don't try to get all your movement through your return pump.

[JungleJoe]

I have 100lbs base rock, and 50 lbs live, 120 lbs agrilive sand, planning on adding another 150 lbs live rock as I can, I wont have any nitrate problems after all the rock is in there, plus I'll be running met halides 250w with 4 65w atinic compacts.

I've done more adjusting and slowed the sump down more, surging is almost gone now

I don't want to mess with the pumps, I spent 6 hr's and hard plumbed the whole setup and it'd be h*ll to switch back to a single pump. plus with the dual outputs on the megaflow kits, I am getting VERY good circulation.

[Saldarya]

Originally posted by JungleJoe
I have 100lbs base rock, and 50 lbs live, 120 lbs agrilive sand, planning on adding another 150 lbs live rock as I can, I wont have any nitrate problems after all the rock is in there, plus I'll be running met halides 250w with 4 65w atinic compacts.

I've done more adjusting and slowed the sump down more, surging is almost gone now

I don't want to mess with the pumps, I spent 6 hr's and hard plumbed the whole setup and it'd be h*ll to switch back to a single pump. plus with the dual outputs on the megaflow kits, I am getting VERY good circulation.

I am not sure why you would believe that additional rock, or live rock at all for that matter would decrease your nitrates. Nitrites yes, but Nitrates no. Remember, Nitrate is the end result of the nitrification process, it has to be removed from the system somehow. Although it is possible that it may dissipate as nitrogen gas, it is likely that you would have an algae bloom that would use it as a nutrient long before that.

As mentioned above, if you are using a wet/dry with either bio-balls or some kind of matting as a media for the bacteria to colonize, you would be best served to remove it now. That is if your goal here is keeping corals/inverts of any type where Nitrates (and likely Phosphate) migt cause concerns. Fish Only, go for it...

Secondly, I agree with the fact that you will fight those two pumps returning flow together forever. They will start to work against each other as they begin to get built up with 'stuff' in time. As mentioned, only one pump is needed as the return. ALl of your flow does not have to come through the sump, some would argue that it shouldn't. That additional flow via a closed loop or internal means (powerheads) is much better.

Finally, you mentioned that you are feeding water to your skimmer from one portion of the sump, and returning it to a different section. Again, I believe you are going to have issues ongoing as as you try to balance those two compartments water levels. This will effect the skimmers performance likely if/when the water level in the intake side fluctuates.

Yikes, I got on a soap box, hope that all made sense, please post more questions if you have any and WELCOME BACK to this addiction.

[JungleJoe]

On the skimmer, there are no concerns about water levels, with the way it's setup, it's pretty slick, it's not like my old CPR that had a 6" protien skim built in, but it's a nice berlin triple pass that sits outside of the sump, with a pump in the main lower sump that feeds the skimmer. your comment about removing the matting, and or bio balls... can you elaborate on that further ???

if I remove the matting aka prefilter in the wet dry, it lets things flow nice.

also on both pumps, I do have ball **** valves right under the tank, so I can shut them off (for cleaning etc, pump replacement) or vary the amount of water they pump by cracking the valve abit.

Things have changed alot since I was last in to this, what I am trying to setup is an easy to maintain yet nice reef, with some fish in there too. I forgot about the differences tween nitrite and nitrate etc...

but back to your comment about the matting etc....

splain some more please

[Saldarya]

Most wet/dry filters have some kind of 'media' in them that acts as a surface for the bacteris to colonize. Back in the old days (Of which I was a part of I am sad to say) that was usually either plastic bio balls, or a roll of what looked like white pre-filter that was not submerged in water, but yet the water ran over it. This is where the bacteria colonized. These WD filters were/are very efficient in breaking down ammonia->Nitrite->Nitrate, so efficent that it reulted in a large amount of Nitrate being present in the water.

Now, in a fish only tank, not big deal, water changes would normally keep nitrate from being an issue. And again, high levels of nitrate are not a big deal for fish.

But here we are in the modern era of reefkeeping, where that same nitrate can be a bane of yoru existence.

So, if you have one of these types for medias in your wet dry, it is best to remove it, and let all of your nitrification take place in the live rock itself. It will be sufficent and more natural.

You have seen others here mention the use of a refugium. THis is nothing more than a remote holding vessel (could be your sump) in which you can do a number of things in, but for this discussion, you would be best served in allowing macro algae of some sort grow there. The main advantage is that the macro algae will use up the nitrate that is present as a food source, thus keeping the levels very low if not non-existent. All of this equates to a healthy, more natural system where you are less likely to have issues with nuisance algae in your main display.

Hope that help!!

[UCanDoIt]

Agree with Bobby 100%. My wet/dry on my 75g reef, I removed all the bio balls when I converted from fish only to reef. I filled the whole compartment with live rock rubble size and it works great. Leave room underneath the compartment where the bio balls used to be so that you can flush out the detritus every week or month, depending on your maintenance cycle. I don't get much buildup, so I flush out one a month at the same time I change my carbon.

[JungleJoe]

Yeah that makes sense, I came from the school of over doing all filtration in order to make a tank that runs forever. Thus when I setup this system, I got the wet dry that was rated to 500 gal, the uv for 500+ gal, the protien skimmer rated 500+ and lighting that will make the sun shine I am seriously thinking of this refigum, but to take like a 10 gal or so, run it remote next to the tank, and use that for fragile things like seahorses etc.

I need to find a local purist....

anyone in WISCONSIN that wants to come over and play ?????


am near Milwaukee.


also, what do I do with 2 damsels, a neon velvet and a bluefin, I do NOT want them in my reef. they are sitting in a nano cube, I did let the yellow tail into the reef since they are a tad more friendly, but the other two I'd love to flush em.

of course stores don't give you crap for em, I inherited em w/the nano from a rummage sale (that is why I got back into fish again sigh)