What's NOT wrong... Picture link added

maisysmom · 11/22/2006, 02:45 PM

My tank has been going down hill for a while. Yesterday, I spent some time on a water change and picking out the Pulsing Xenia that have overrun the tank.

Params:
Yesterday, the salinity was more than 1.032! I reduced it to 1.027 with the water change.
Nitrate and Nitrite are 0.
Ph is 7.2 and alk is about 80.
Temp 75

The tank looks like a death zone.
My anemone (in the center) hasn't put it tentacles out in weeks.
I need to try to fix this mess up. Where to start????

http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...27/t_=79890427

dcombs44 · 11/22/2006, 03:01 PM

to attach a picture you need to upload the picture to a site such as photobucket.com and then attach by putting the url of the picture between image brackets. i.e.

[IMG]www.pictureurl.com[IMG]

kzoo · 11/22/2006, 03:55 PM

tanker · 11/22/2006, 04:00 PM

1) I think your tank is too small for an anemone.

2) How long has your SG been at 1.032?? That is way too high for even a short time.

3) Your PH is too low. Get it to about 7.9 to 8.2 slowly but soon.

4) You have 0 nitrates with an anemone in a small tank?? How?? Are/were you feeding it?? Feeding it what??

kzoo · 11/22/2006, 04:00 PM

There is your pic , as for why things are dieing your water is out of wack you need to raise your ph it is to low and temp is to low. Are you topping your tank with ro water?

SDguy · 11/22/2006, 04:07 PM

Just for future reference, it's always best to add units to water parameter numbers so people know what you mean.

McCrary · 11/22/2006, 04:11 PM

tanker- I don't think the size has anything to do with the condition of the anemone.

The water quality is the reason why the anemone is fairing so poorly. Also the temperature should be about 79 and the pH should be around 8.1 with an SG of 1.025. Once those are adjusted things should start doing better.

kawasaki · 11/22/2006, 04:15 PM

Well for one your pH is way low... I would start by at least bringing that up. And I think you mean 8dKH Alk not 80 Alk?? Why was your salinity so high?? You should be topping off your tank with fresh water daily to keep it stable. If i were you I would do a couple of water changes within a couple of days to bring everything where it's supposed to be, bring the pH up, salinity down etc... do it over a couple of days so you don't stress the tank out anymore than it already is.
No offense but xenia tend to love dirtier water...

kevinmlindsey · 11/22/2006, 04:24 PM

Sounds like time got a little away from you. I wouldn't freak but I would take my time and go slow getting back to were you want, to much stress and it could cause more damage than what it is right now.

maisysmom · 11/22/2006, 04:35 PM

2) How long has your SG been at 1.032?? That is way too high for even a short time.
I HAVE NO CLUE. AT MOST A MONTH.

3) Your PH is too low. Get it to about 7.9 to 8.2 slowly but soon.
HOW? HOW DOES ONE REAISE Ph?

4) You have 0 nitrates with an anemone in a small tank?? How?? Are/were you feeding it?? Feeding it what??
FEEDING IT? MAYBE THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I HAVE BEEN RELYING ON ITS PERCULA TO FEED IT. WHAT SHOULD I BE FEEDING IT?

There is your pic , as for why things are dieing your water is out of wack you need to raise your ph it is to low and temp is to low. Are you topping your tank with ro water?
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THE PIC. IT IS A SORE SIGHT. I USE BOTTLED WATER FROM THE WATER MAN

Why was your salinity so high??
I'D LOVE TO KNOW

You should be topping off your tank with fresh water daily to keep it stable.
REALLY?

Thank you everyone for your input. i will do another water change this weekend. I still feel pretty lost and sad that I have f*cked it up so bad. Is there hope for a beautiful reef someday?

superswimmer · 11/22/2006, 04:43 PM

Is there hope for a beautiful reef someday?

YES THERE IS!

All you have to do is get your parameters back in check. Remeber though, baby steps, nothing good in this hobby happens fast.

You are doing something right, you appear to have good coralline algae growth.

The anemone need to be fed at least 2xs a week. Try offering it a variety at first to see what it likes, ie mysis, sliverslides, etc. Aslo, most anemones need bright lights, what lighting are you running?

maisysmom · 11/22/2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by superswimmer
Is there hope for a beautiful reef someday?

YES THERE IS!

All you have to do is get your parameters back in check. Remeber though, baby steps, nothing good in this hobby happens fast.

You are doing something right, you appear to have good coralline algae growth.

The anemone need to be fed at least 2xs a week. Try offering it a variety at first to see what it likes, ie mysis, sliverslides, etc. Aslo, most anemones need bright lights, what lighting are you running?

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I have notice lately that the coralline seems to be dying back a bit.
Do I need to target feed it?
I am running stock lights. Just changed them about 2 months ago.

LOTUS50GOD · 11/22/2006, 04:59 PM

You can raise PH, but dripping kalk or using a buffer solution.. be careful though kalk has a PH of 12.0 or so, so use it sparingly...

Get your SG back to 1.025...
I feed my anemone silversides or lance fish, about 1x a week. The will enjoy just about any meaty food though..

dippin61 · 11/22/2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dcombs44
to attach a picture you need to upload the picture to a site such as photobucket.com and then attach by putting the url of the picture between image brackets. i.e.

[IMG]www.pictureurl.com[IMG]

the last tag should be /img

SDguy · 11/22/2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LOTUS50GOD
You can raise PH, but dripping kalk or using a buffer solution.. be careful though kalk has a PH of 12.0 or so, so use it sparingly...

Get your SG back to 1.025...
I feed my anemone silversides or lance fish, about 1x a week. The will enjoy just about any meaty food though..

OK, I would NOT recommend using kalk in this situation. The person is obviously a novice, which is fine, but kalk can be EASILY overdosed, and just cause more problems. Especially with such a small tank. Water changes are such an easy solution here.

Don't change more than 25-30% of your water at a time. Wait at least a few days up to a week between changes. Make sure your new water is mixed and aerated properly for 24 hours prior to using it. Make sure it's specific gravity is 1.024-5. Make sure it's temp matches your tank. 77F-82F is all acceptable, just pick a temp and keep it there. I would try feeding the anemone something small, like mysis. Make sure it eats it (takes it into it's mouth), and doesn't spit it back up. If all goes well, then continue feeding as recommended (2x a week). If it doesn't eat, don't offer any more food until your water parameters are better.

BTW, is that the anemone in the picture...the green thing? Is it a carpet anemone? Because it looks more like an open brain to me...

Mariner · 11/22/2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Why was your salinity so high??
You should be topping off your tank with fresh water daily to keep it stable.
REALLY?

Uhhhhh...You do realize that as your tank evaporates water, the salt does not evaporate. Thus, left on its own, salinity will rise steadily over time. To combat this, you should definitely be replacing the evaporated water with freshwater. Or a better option in your case might be to look into dripping Kalkwasser as your top-off water -- this replaces evaporated water, adds calcium and alkalinity and ups pH. To learn more about Kalkwasser, check in the ReefChemistry forum here on RC and read the articles on the subject by Randy Holmes-Farley.
good luck,
Mariner

maisysmom · 11/22/2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDguy
OK, I would NOT recommend using kalk in this situation. The person is obviously a novice, which is fine, but kalk can be EASILY overdosed, and just cause more problems. Especially with such a small tank. Water changes are such an easy solution here.

Don't change more than 25-30% of your water at a time. Wait at least a few days up to a week between changes. Make sure your new water is mixed and aerated properly for 24 hours prior to using it. Make sure it's specific gravity is 1.024-5. Make sure it's temp matches your tank. 77F-82F is all acceptable, just pick a temp and keep it there. I would try feeding the anemone something small, like mysis. Make sure it eats it (takes it into it's mouth), and doesn't spit it back up. If all goes well, then continue feeding as recommended (2x a week). If it doesn't eat, don't offer any more food until your water parameters are better.

BTW, is that the anemone in the picture...the green thing? Is it a carpet anemone? Because it looks more like an open brain to me...

You are right.. It is an open brain. The anemone is in the very center... barely recognizable. Looks like a light ring with a darker middle.

Salamander · 11/22/2006, 08:51 PM

Remember to feed your brain too....Feed Your Braaaiiin as Grace Slick sang.

brward5 · 11/22/2006, 09:02 PM

Reef buffer is another option for raising pH. My LFS specifically recommended against Kalk in my 29 for a couple reasons - 1, you have to be very careful because it has a pH of about 12 or 13, so you have to drip it and my nano doesn't have a sump under the tank or a good place to hang a drip; 2, you need to mix it with freshwater, and there's not enough daily evaporation to be able to get any significant rise in calcium or alkalinity. Remember that with any chemical, go slowly and test often. Read the directions very carefully and don't exceed the maximum dosage.
~Brian

SDguy · 11/22/2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maisysmom
You are right.. It is an open brain. The anemone is in the very center... barely recognizable. Looks like a light ring with a darker middle.

Well, if your anemone is that unrecognizable, I would NOT try feeding it. Look, all these suggestions to feed the anemone, the brain, are great, if your tank is functioning properly. However, if you are having water quality/parameter issues, for whatever reason, and your inhabitants are that noticeably unhappy, then they probably won't take food anyway, possibly leading to wasted food/worsening water quality. Nothing is going to starve over night. Get that water back up to par, then start a feeding regimen for your coral/anemone.

HTH

maisysmom · 11/22/2006, 11:12 PM

Now my clown is poking it and rubbing up against it... I think death is imminent... sigh.

So Kalk or no Kalk?

tanker · 11/23/2006, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maisysmom
Now my clown is poking it and rubbing up against it... I think death is imminent... sigh.

So Kalk or no Kalk?

Kalk. You still need to raise the PH, but in a nano drip it carefully.

jdieck · 11/23/2006, 02:09 AM

What are the units of measure of your Alkalinity?
If it is 80 ppm (1.6 meq/lt) you will never be able to maintain a stable PH you need to increase the alkalinity to a range between 150 and 200 ppm, of course this if your Alk is in ppm. First confirm your units of measure. If it is ppm you need first to insure that is the real reading, if you are using test strips they are not accurate enough, take a sample to your local fish store and ask them to test it for Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium.

If your alkalinity is at the right level then do not use Kalk as it will not only increase the PH but also the alkalinity. If this is the case just aereate the water in your tank using an air pump and airstone, that will bring PH up.

I recommend you use Baked Baking soda to increase your alkalinity if required, it will also increase your PH so go slow.
To make it you can purchase a box of Harm and Hammer baking Soda, spread it on a cooking tray and bake it in the oven for two hours at 350*F, let cool and store the powder in a sealed container. Dissolve the required amount in some purified water and add it to a high flow area in your tank.
To determine how much to add, you can use the chemistry calculator:
http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/chem_calc3.html

Continue with 20% water changes, insure the new water has been aereated for at least 24 hours and it's temperature matches that of the tank. If you are using a refractometer to measure the salinity then a range of 1.026 to 1.027 is OK, if you are using a float hydrometer then target 1.025 to 1.026 sg
Replace the evaporated water with fresh purified water (salt does not evaporate) As the water evaporates the salt concentrates, I think if you let it evaporate too much the salinity increased to the 1.032 and it could be agravated if you replaced the evaporated water using salt water.

Finally depending on the level of Calcium and Magnesium you find you might need to adjust them, let us know what it is and we can help.

GlouBou · 11/23/2006, 05:23 AM

Hello,

For your salinity I have a question : do you add fresh or salt water for evaporation compensation ? In the second case you are wrong : you allways must add fresh water. Salt stay in tank.

Kind Regards

GlouBou

maisysmom · 11/23/2006, 09:42 AM

Thanks for all of this help. Here's what people are saying:

Top off with fresh water daily (2)
Feed anemone (3)
Add Kalk (2)
Do not add Kalk (3)
use a reef buffer (2)
jdieck had a novel idea: use baking soda to increase alk and ph

sigh...

11/22/2006, 02:45 PM	#1
maisysmom Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chico CA Posts: 111	What's NOT wrong... Picture link added My tank has been going down hill for a while. Yesterday, I spent some time on a water change and picking out the Pulsing Xenia that have overrun the tank. Params: Yesterday, the salinity was more than 1.032! I reduced it to 1.027 with the water change. Nitrate and Nitrite are 0. Ph is 7.2 and alk is about 80. Temp 75 The tank looks like a death zone. My anemone (in the center) hasn't put it tentacles out in weeks. I need to try to fix this mess up. Where to start???? http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...27/t_=79890427 Last edited by maisysmom; 11/22/2006 at 03:00 PM.

11/22/2006, 03:01 PM	#2
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	to attach a picture you need to upload the picture to a site such as photobucket.com and then attach by putting the url of the picture between image brackets. i.e. [IMG]www.pictureurl.com[IMG] __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress

11/22/2006, 04:07 PM	#6
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Just for future reference, it's always best to add units to water parameter numbers so people know what you mean. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

11/22/2006, 04:11 PM	#7
McCrary Can't Stop Time Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,079	tanker- I don't think the size has anything to do with the condition of the anemone. The water quality is the reason why the anemone is fairing so poorly. Also the temperature should be about 79 and the pH should be around 8.1 with an SG of 1.025. Once those are adjusted things should start doing better. __________________ Matt Patience is the best remedy for every trouble. Titus Maccius Plautus (254 BC - 184 BC), Rudens

11/22/2006, 04:59 PM	#13
LOTUS50GOD Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,210	You can raise PH, but dripping kalk or using a buffer solution.. be careful though kalk has a PH of 12.0 or so, so use it sparingly... Get your SG back to 1.025... I feed my anemone silversides or lance fish, about 1x a week. The will enjoy just about any meaty food though.. __________________ Vertex Alpha 300 Skimmer, AI SOL Blue, Neptune Apex Controlled 360 gallon Reef Current Tank Info: born 6/26/2008- 340 reef + 100 fuge, 300lbs of figi LR

11/22/2006, 03:55 PM	#3
kzoo Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 589

11/22/2006, 04:00 PM	#4
tanker Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: sf bay area Posts: 3,522	1) I think your tank is too small for an anemone. 2) How long has your SG been at 1.032?? That is way too high for even a short time. 3) Your PH is too low. Get it to about 7.9 to 8.2 slowly but soon. 4) You have 0 nitrates with an anemone in a small tank?? How?? Are/were you feeding it?? Feeding it what??

11/22/2006, 04:15 PM	#8
kawasaki Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: La Grande, OR Posts: 59	Well for one your pH is way low... I would start by at least bringing that up. And I think you mean 8dKH Alk not 80 Alk?? Why was your salinity so high?? You should be topping off your tank with fresh water daily to keep it stable. If i were you I would do a couple of water changes within a couple of days to bring everything where it's supposed to be, bring the pH up, salinity down etc... do it over a couple of days so you don't stress the tank out anymore than it already is. No offense but xenia tend to love dirtier water...

11/22/2006, 04:24 PM	#9
kevinmlindsey Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: san antonio texas Posts: 24	Sounds like time got a little away from you. I wouldn't freak but I would take my time and go slow getting back to were you want, to much stress and it could cause more damage than what it is right now.

11/22/2006, 04:35 PM	#10
maisysmom Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chico CA Posts: 111	2) How long has your SG been at 1.032?? That is way too high for even a short time. I HAVE NO CLUE. AT MOST A MONTH. 3) Your PH is too low. Get it to about 7.9 to 8.2 slowly but soon. HOW? HOW DOES ONE REAISE Ph? 4) You have 0 nitrates with an anemone in a small tank?? How?? Are/were you feeding it?? Feeding it what?? FEEDING IT? MAYBE THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I HAVE BEEN RELYING ON ITS PERCULA TO FEED IT. WHAT SHOULD I BE FEEDING IT? There is your pic , as for why things are dieing your water is out of wack you need to raise your ph it is to low and temp is to low. Are you topping your tank with ro water? THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THE PIC. IT IS A SORE SIGHT. I USE BOTTLED WATER FROM THE WATER MAN Why was your salinity so high?? I'D LOVE TO KNOW You should be topping off your tank with fresh water daily to keep it stable. REALLY? Thank you everyone for your input. i will do another water change this weekend. I still feel pretty lost and sad that I have f*cked it up so bad. Is there hope for a beautiful reef someday?

11/22/2006, 04:43 PM	#11
superswimmer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 535	Is there hope for a beautiful reef someday? YES THERE IS! All you have to do is get your parameters back in check. Remeber though, baby steps, nothing good in this hobby happens fast. You are doing something right, you appear to have good coralline algae growth. The anemone need to be fed at least 2xs a week. Try offering it a variety at first to see what it likes, ie mysis, sliverslides, etc. Aslo, most anemones need bright lights, what lighting are you running?

11/22/2006, 08:51 PM	#18
Salamander Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 2,103	Remember to feed your brain too....Feed Your Braaaiiin as Grace Slick sang. __________________ I feel more like myself now than I did before. Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef, 2 x 250W DE MH, 2 x 54w T5, MSX 200 SKimmer, 2 Koralia 4's, 40g fuge/sump, QT

11/22/2006, 09:02 PM	#19
brward5 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 131	Reef buffer is another option for raising pH. My LFS specifically recommended against Kalk in my 29 for a couple reasons - 1, you have to be very careful because it has a pH of about 12 or 13, so you have to drip it and my nano doesn't have a sump under the tank or a good place to hang a drip; 2, you need to mix it with freshwater, and there's not enough daily evaporation to be able to get any significant rise in calcium or alkalinity. Remember that with any chemical, go slowly and test often. Read the directions very carefully and don't exceed the maximum dosage. ~Brian

11/22/2006, 11:12 PM	#21
maisysmom Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chico CA Posts: 111	Now my clown is poking it and rubbing up against it... I think death is imminent... sigh. So Kalk or no Kalk?

11/23/2006, 02:09 AM	#23
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	What are the units of measure of your Alkalinity? If it is 80 ppm (1.6 meq/lt) you will never be able to maintain a stable PH you need to increase the alkalinity to a range between 150 and 200 ppm, of course this if your Alk is in ppm. First confirm your units of measure. If it is ppm you need first to insure that is the real reading, if you are using test strips they are not accurate enough, take a sample to your local fish store and ask them to test it for Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium. If your alkalinity is at the right level then do not use Kalk as it will not only increase the PH but also the alkalinity. If this is the case just aereate the water in your tank using an air pump and airstone, that will bring PH up. I recommend you use Baked Baking soda to increase your alkalinity if required, it will also increase your PH so go slow. To make it you can purchase a box of Harm and Hammer baking Soda, spread it on a cooking tray and bake it in the oven for two hours at 350*F, let cool and store the powder in a sealed container. Dissolve the required amount in some purified water and add it to a high flow area in your tank. To determine how much to add, you can use the chemistry calculator: http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/chem_calc3.html Continue with 20% water changes, insure the new water has been aereated for at least 24 hours and it's temperature matches that of the tank. If you are using a refractometer to measure the salinity then a range of 1.026 to 1.027 is OK, if you are using a float hydrometer then target 1.025 to 1.026 sg Replace the evaporated water with fresh purified water (salt does not evaporate) As the water evaporates the salt concentrates, I think if you let it evaporate too much the salinity increased to the 1.032 and it could be agravated if you replaced the evaporated water using salt water. Finally depending on the level of Calcium and Magnesium you find you might need to adjust them, let us know what it is and we can help. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

11/23/2006, 05:23 AM	#24
GlouBou Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beauvais - France Posts: 32	Hello, For your salinity I have a question : do you add fresh or salt water for evaporation compensation ? In the second case you are wrong : you allways must add fresh water. Salt stay in tank. Kind Regards GlouBou __________________ When nothing works and you've tried everything, read the documentation ! (Murphy's law n°2) Current Tank Info: 80x80x60 cm - Lumenarc spot with two 150w Bulb - BBK 180 mini V09

11/23/2006, 09:42 AM	#25
maisysmom Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chico CA Posts: 111	Thanks for all of this help. Here's what people are saying: Top off with fresh water daily (2) Feed anemone (3) Add Kalk (2) Do not add Kalk (3) use a reef buffer (2) jdieck had a novel idea: use baking soda to increase alk and ph sigh...