Tank Problem, need help please

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 03:48 PM

I've been observing a decline in the health of a few of my corals over the past 2 weeks, and I've been unable to find the cause.

Current Tank Setup and Parameters:

120 gallon 30x30x30 cube w/ 10 gallon sump

Lighting/Cycle--
400 watt SE MH 10k 11 hours
300 watt VHO super actinic 12 hours

Paramaters--
PH 8.2
Alk 7
Calcium 450+
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0
Phosphate 0

All top-off water is RODI from the LFS and I use Coralife Salt for water changes which are done weekly - 10%

Filtration--
Utalizing Activated Carbon, Skimmer(PM ES-100), and a Chiller keeps the temp between 77-79, I also have a heater for night time in case the temp drops to 75.

Circulation--
Closed Loop powered by a Panworld 100px-x, and a SEIO M820 for circulation

Misc--
I recently added a grounding probe. I've heard that the RIO pumps are known to fail potentially releasing electricity into the water, so I added the probe for a little extra protection.

Now for the problems:

I've lost 2 fish(green chromis) and a Linkia starfish in the past month

over the past 2-3 weeks I've witnessed some corals beginning to decline in health as well.

symptoms and images listed below.

Favia- tissue wearing away at one edge, and has since almost all but dissappeared

Branching Hydnopora - when I originally purchased this coral it had fallen behind the rockwork at the dealers tank, so it was coming back after some major tissue recession. for a while the outer tissue would expand like normal during the day, but recently the tissue has been receding.

Milleapora- tissue recession at the tips gradually working its way to the base of the coral

Chip's Acropora - this is the most recent addition to the tank, and also the most recent to show a decline. its bairly visible so far but I can see where there is some bleaching or white edges at the tips of some branches.

Blue Acro - its bairly visible so far but I can see where there is some bleaching or white edges at the tips of some branches.

Any ideas or anything that you might see, please send my way, as I'm totally stumped.

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 03:53 PM

I forgot to mention...

I have a BTA, a Clam, Gorgonians, numerous other LPS and some softies, all of which are healthy.

GMAX · 11/30/2006, 04:05 PM

On the last two photos I think the whiting may really be just new growth. The mille and the hydrophora look like tissue recission. Anything changed in your tank recently?

Sk8r · 11/30/2006, 04:21 PM

What softies? Softies and stonies often go to war.

Your alk is way low on the dkh scale. I run 8.3-9.3.

Your temp s/b 80: that's a good midway mark between two disasters.

Your mh period is a shade long, imho: I run 8 hrs, then go to twilight.

You have no algae problem, film algae, right?

Any softies beside discosoma mushrooms? some can kill stonies by breathing on them.

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 04:24 PM

the most recent things I've added are the grounding probe, and the SEIO 820 pump. Other than that, nothing comes to mind.

My buddy mentioned that it could be a bacteria that is spreading around to different corals, and that I should try and dip any affected corals in iodine. I'm hesitant to do this because the acros and the hydnopora are fixed to the rock, and would require me breaking them off. I don't want to cause more harm than good, so I'm waiting for some more options before I jump into doing anything drastic.

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 04:28 PM

I have had some brown algae in places-almost like diatom algae. I thought it might be from lack of flow which is why I added the SEIO. Most of the brown algae has gone away, but I now have a small patch of cyanobacteria near the front of the tank. If that were part of the problem, I bet reducing the light would also help reduce some of the extra unwanted algae growth.

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 04:34 PM

Softies:
Button Polyps, A Small Zoa colony, Small Mushroom colony, Toadstool Polyp all of which are lower in the tank and not touching any of the affected corals.

I do however realize that the water is universal, so if they are releasing toxins that they could be affecting anything. My attempt to battle this was by using carbon, is that not enough?

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 04:43 PM

Salinity is 1.023

GMAX · 11/30/2006, 05:42 PM

Cyano usually means elevated PO3 or NO4. Are your test kits out of date? Which manufacturers kits are you using? Something is fertilizing the algae to let it grow.

scuba_josh · 11/30/2006, 09:14 PM

I use red sea tests, and I had the LFS test for me too.

DSMpunk · 11/30/2006, 09:38 PM

I would start with your ALK. Its defintely on the low side. Bring it up slowly and keep up on your water changes and carbon.

Honestly I have a tank full of SPS and leathers and have never had any problems with chemical warfare. I seriously doubt it would cause RTN like you have here.

Have you checked for parasites?

scuba_josh · 12/01/2006, 02:35 PM

I've reduced the lighting to 8.5 hours, and I mixed some kalkwasser yesterday. I will start to replace the evaporated water with kalkwasser to raise the alkalinity.

jag1979 · 12/01/2006, 04:34 PM

I don't think kalkwasser will raise the alk...you should try a buffer or alk supplement

scuba_josh · 12/01/2006, 05:01 PM

I did another reading today on alkalinity, its actually at 6!!! yikes. I'm going to add some sodium bicarbonate ( baking soda) gradually to try and raise the alkalinity.

Any ideas on how the alkalinity could get so low?

jag1979 · 12/01/2006, 05:34 PM

do you have clams and/or sps? those eat up the alk pretty quick

scuba_josh · 12/01/2006, 05:39 PM

yes, I have one clam and 3 small sps about 2-3 in tall.

11/30/2006, 03:48 PM	#1
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	Tank Problem, need help please I've been observing a decline in the health of a few of my corals over the past 2 weeks, and I've been unable to find the cause. Current Tank Setup and Parameters: 120 gallon 30x30x30 cube w/ 10 gallon sump Lighting/Cycle-- 400 watt SE MH 10k 11 hours 300 watt VHO super actinic 12 hours Paramaters-- PH 8.2 Alk 7 Calcium 450+ Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Ammonia 0 Phosphate 0 All top-off water is RODI from the LFS and I use Coralife Salt for water changes which are done weekly - 10% Filtration-- Utalizing Activated Carbon, Skimmer(PM ES-100), and a Chiller keeps the temp between 77-79, I also have a heater for night time in case the temp drops to 75. Circulation-- Closed Loop powered by a Panworld 100px-x, and a SEIO M820 for circulation Misc-- I recently added a grounding probe. I've heard that the RIO pumps are known to fail potentially releasing electricity into the water, so I added the probe for a little extra protection. Now for the problems: I've lost 2 fish(green chromis) and a Linkia starfish in the past month over the past 2-3 weeks I've witnessed some corals beginning to decline in health as well. symptoms and images listed below. Favia- tissue wearing away at one edge, and has since almost all but dissappeared Branching Hydnopora - when I originally purchased this coral it had fallen behind the rockwork at the dealers tank, so it was coming back after some major tissue recession. for a while the outer tissue would expand like normal during the day, but recently the tissue has been receding. Milleapora- tissue recession at the tips gradually working its way to the base of the coral Chip's Acropora - this is the most recent addition to the tank, and also the most recent to show a decline. its bairly visible so far but I can see where there is some bleaching or white edges at the tips of some branches. Blue Acro - its bairly visible so far but I can see where there is some bleaching or white edges at the tips of some branches. Any ideas or anything that you might see, please send my way, as I'm totally stumped. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 03:53 PM	#2
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	I forgot to mention... I have a BTA, a Clam, Gorgonians, numerous other LPS and some softies, all of which are healthy. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 04:21 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	What softies? Softies and stonies often go to war. Your alk is way low on the dkh scale. I run 8.3-9.3. Your temp s/b 80: that's a good midway mark between two disasters. Your mh period is a shade long, imho: I run 8 hrs, then go to twilight. You have no algae problem, film algae, right? Any softies beside discosoma mushrooms? some can kill stonies by breathing on them. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/30/2006, 04:24 PM	#5
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	the most recent things I've added are the grounding probe, and the SEIO 820 pump. Other than that, nothing comes to mind. My buddy mentioned that it could be a bacteria that is spreading around to different corals, and that I should try and dip any affected corals in iodine. I'm hesitant to do this because the acros and the hydnopora are fixed to the rock, and would require me breaking them off. I don't want to cause more harm than good, so I'm waiting for some more options before I jump into doing anything drastic. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 04:28 PM	#6
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	I have had some brown algae in places-almost like diatom algae. I thought it might be from lack of flow which is why I added the SEIO. Most of the brown algae has gone away, but I now have a small patch of cyanobacteria near the front of the tank. If that were part of the problem, I bet reducing the light would also help reduce some of the extra unwanted algae growth. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 04:05 PM	#3
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	On the last two photos I think the whiting may really be just new growth. The mille and the hydrophora look like tissue recission. Anything changed in your tank recently?

11/30/2006, 04:34 PM	#7
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	Softies: Button Polyps, A Small Zoa colony, Small Mushroom colony, Toadstool Polyp all of which are lower in the tank and not touching any of the affected corals. I do however realize that the water is universal, so if they are releasing toxins that they could be affecting anything. My attempt to battle this was by using carbon, is that not enough? __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 04:43 PM	#8
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	Salinity is 1.023 __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 05:42 PM	#9
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Cyano usually means elevated PO3 or NO4. Are your test kits out of date? Which manufacturers kits are you using? Something is fertilizing the algae to let it grow.

11/30/2006, 09:14 PM	#10
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	I use red sea tests, and I had the LFS test for me too. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

11/30/2006, 09:38 PM	#11
DSMpunk Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Posts: 1,064	I would start with your ALK. Its defintely on the low side. Bring it up slowly and keep up on your water changes and carbon. Honestly I have a tank full of SPS and leathers and have never had any problems with chemical warfare. I seriously doubt it would cause RTN like you have here. Have you checked for parasites? __________________ -Sean Current Tank Info: SPS Dominated 150

12/01/2006, 02:35 PM	#12
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	I've reduced the lighting to 8.5 hours, and I mixed some kalkwasser yesterday. I will start to replace the evaporated water with kalkwasser to raise the alkalinity. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

12/01/2006, 04:34 PM	#13
jag1979 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 982	I don't think kalkwasser will raise the alk...you should try a buffer or alk supplement __________________ clowns, bi-color pseudo, coral beauty, yellow tang GBTA, crocea clam xenia, various polyps/zoa's, candy cane, tree leather, frogspawn, torch, various mushrooms, green/red plate, birdsnest Current Tank Info: 180 AGA, tunze 6100, 6025 and 6060, 3 x 250 mh's, 3 x 80 t5's, ASM G4+

12/01/2006, 05:01 PM	#14
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	I did another reading today on alkalinity, its actually at 6!!! yikes. I'm going to add some sodium bicarbonate ( baking soda) gradually to try and raise the alkalinity. Any ideas on how the alkalinity could get so low? __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank

12/01/2006, 05:34 PM	#15
jag1979 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 982	do you have clams and/or sps? those eat up the alk pretty quick __________________ clowns, bi-color pseudo, coral beauty, yellow tang GBTA, crocea clam xenia, various polyps/zoa's, candy cane, tree leather, frogspawn, torch, various mushrooms, green/red plate, birdsnest Current Tank Info: 180 AGA, tunze 6100, 6025 and 6060, 3 x 250 mh's, 3 x 80 t5's, ASM G4+

12/01/2006, 05:39 PM	#16
scuba_josh Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, TEXAS Posts: 60	yes, I have one clam and 3 small sps about 2-3 in tall. __________________ Cheers ~Josh Current Tank Info: 110 gallon 30x30x30 cube tank