DSB in Europe

piquesegue · 12/09/2006, 02:48 PM

Hi,
my name is Philippe.
I'm a french guy living in Germany.
France = where we all eat cheese ;o)
Germany = where they all drink beer ;o)

Sorry for my english, could speak quite good a few years ago, but i recently put my efforts on learning Deutsch and will probably write a couple of strange things

Well, i hope you'll manage to understand!
If i dare to annoy you here, it's because i cannot find answers to my questions on the europeans forums, DSB is not so popular down here...
So... here's my "problem"

I started a reef tank a few weeks ago, you can see it here:
[link removed]
It's all in french but you can have a look at the pictures!

Quickly said:
-Tank about 220 Liters (in Gallons...euh...?! don't know!)
- Refugium about the same size, no pump in the refugium, water goes out and falls in the main tank.
- In six months or later, i'd like to get two Synchiropus Splendidus for my tank.

In the refugium, i installed a Jaubert system and a "kind" of DSB (why both? because i could'nt decide which to choose, found both of them very interesting).
I'm calling this a "kind" of DSB, because it's actually just aragonit sand without any live sand you use in the states, and if i believe what i read, i should get a bit of this live sand, and a detrivor kit...

Why don't i also use live sand?
That's the point!
Because you cannot find it here, and if you find it, it's profanity removedexpensive!
11 Euros / kilo , which i guess is not far from 11 dollars, maybe even more.
And because this sand must fly and stay many days i don't know where before it finally comes in my tank, i suppose there would not be so much life in it in the end...
So my question is:
Do you think i can keep my so-called DSB like this, without risk?

One thing i must say :
I have a lot of micro life in my tank because i bought the rocks from someone who's been keeping them many years in his tank.
I mean, i can see a lot of mini animals crawling, jumping, running, especially at night.
Well, i would be so happy if i could get a couple of answers, i'm actually often here on reef central but it's my first thread.

Ok... let's see what comes...

Au revoir et merci

piquesegue · 12/09/2006, 02:59 PM

ok, just found a conversion table

Main tank: 58 Gallons
Refugium: 52 Gallons
Probably easier to read for you

chris.hampton · 12/09/2006, 03:06 PM

If your rock is full of life then over time all the life in the rocks will also be in your sand, from what i have read the bags of live sand you can buy aren't worth the money but if you can get a cup (or a couple of cups!) from someone else you know who has a tank you can use that to seed your sand bed but with live rock you shouldn't need to do this! Hope this helps!

piquesegue · 12/09/2006, 03:17 PM

Hey, great!
didn't expect to get an answer so fast

Thanks!
Well, what i actually wonder, is:
Ron Shimek speaks about worms that work in the sand and mix it all, avoiding "dead zones".
I saw a couple of them in my main tank, so i"ll probably get some in the refugium, but maybe not enough...
Well, i'll try it like this.
Thanks again.
Anybody wanting to add something else is welcome

chris.hampton · 12/09/2006, 03:37 PM

With live rock in both tanks you will get all the life you will need in both of your sand beds, the little critters will also go through the pumps or plumbing no problem as well. I have also found that the european forums aren't very good compared to this one! Welcome by the way!!

piquesegue · 12/10/2006, 06:59 AM

nobody else having an opinion about it?
Would like to hear different voices.
Thanks

192clark · 12/10/2006, 01:30 PM

I have read here on RC, that it is good to restock the fauna in the DSB. Many threads suggest the Detrivor kits as a way of introducing different types of organisms. Like someone else said sand from an established tank is great also both is better.

bertoni · 12/10/2006, 01:37 PM

11 euros per kilo is about what we pay here for good-quality live sand. The live rock will supply some animals, although how well that'll work is open to question. I paid for some kits to stock my DSBs.

Are you saying the DSB has a plenum? I'd be worried about that turning into a problem, perhaps collection hydrogen sulfide gas, for example.

piquesegue · 12/10/2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bertoni

Are you saying the DSB has a plenum? I'd be worried about that turning into a problem, perhaps collection hydrogen sulfide gas, for example.

Yes and no.
Well... actually, the refugium tank is splitted in two:
Half with a jaubert system (DSB with coral sand from 2 to 4 millimeter) WITH a plenum like in a typical Jaubert setup.
The other half with a DSB made of very fine aragonit sand.

My goal was to have both of them and NO skimmer, and i'm sure they will work together without problem.
I know you're not so keen on plenums nowadays in the US, but I saw many examples of tanks using this system and working perfectly (for example one from J.Sprung).
I have contacts with people who use Jaubert system and they are all satisfied with it.

The big debate on europeans forums these days, especially in Germany (France is glued to Berliner skimmers), is to know if DSB system like Ron Shimek presented don't crash after a couple of years.
As i still have a couple of doubts about it, i didn't want to go only this way, especially if i can't get all it need (detrivor kits, etc).

And i must say that Jaubert is a nice french guy

, and he applied his method on many public aquarium with success, so i guess it will work by me too.

By the way, back to the DSB:
I'm taking about real "live sand" (freshly taken in the sea), not the one you can buy in bags with so-called bacterias inside.
Did you mean that one too?

Hey, it's great to talk with people who are so far away

I feel a bit like travelling

bertoni · 12/10/2006, 03:30 PM

I think the aquacultured live sand I've been eyeing for my new tank runs $4 per lb, plus (expensive) shipping.

The separate areas sounds fine, although the DSB part might be too small to do much. I think 40g often is considered the lower end for functional size, although I don't know of any data on the subject.

12/09/2006, 02:48 PM	#1
piquesegue Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany and France Posts: 27	DSB in Europe Hi, my name is Philippe. I'm a french guy living in Germany. France = where we all eat cheese ;o) Germany = where they all drink beer ;o) Sorry for my english, could speak quite good a few years ago, but i recently put my efforts on learning Deutsch and will probably write a couple of strange things Well, i hope you'll manage to understand! If i dare to annoy you here, it's because i cannot find answers to my questions on the europeans forums, DSB is not so popular down here... So... here's my "problem" I started a reef tank a few weeks ago, you can see it here: [link removed] It's all in french but you can have a look at the pictures! Quickly said: -Tank about 220 Liters (in Gallons...euh...?! don't know!) - Refugium about the same size, no pump in the refugium, water goes out and falls in the main tank. - In six months or later, i'd like to get two Synchiropus Splendidus for my tank. In the refugium, i installed a Jaubert system and a "kind" of DSB (why both? because i could'nt decide which to choose, found both of them very interesting). I'm calling this a "kind" of DSB, because it's actually just aragonit sand without any live sand you use in the states, and if i believe what i read, i should get a bit of this live sand, and a detrivor kit... Why don't i also use live sand? That's the point! Because you cannot find it here, and if you find it, it's profanity removedexpensive! 11 Euros / kilo , which i guess is not far from 11 dollars, maybe even more. And because this sand must fly and stay many days i don't know where before it finally comes in my tank, i suppose there would not be so much life in it in the end... So my question is: Do you think i can keep my so-called DSB like this, without risk? One thing i must say : I have a lot of micro life in my tank because i bought the rocks from someone who's been keeping them many years in his tank. I mean, i can see a lot of mini animals crawling, jumping, running, especially at night. Well, i would be so happy if i could get a couple of answers, i'm actually often here on reef central but it's my first thread. Ok... let's see what comes... Au revoir et merci Last edited by bertoni; 12/10/2006 at 01:32 PM.

12/09/2006, 03:06 PM	#3
chris.hampton Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 490	If your rock is full of life then over time all the life in the rocks will also be in your sand, from what i have read the bags of live sand you can buy aren't worth the money but if you can get a cup (or a couple of cups!) from someone else you know who has a tank you can use that to seed your sand bed but with live rock you shouldn't need to do this! Hope this helps! __________________ Imagine how deep the ocean would be if there wasn’t any sponges!! Current Tank Info: 95 (UK) gal 2 years old and 10 gal with bangi babies!!!

12/09/2006, 03:17 PM	#4
piquesegue Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany and France Posts: 27	whaooo! Hey, great! didn't expect to get an answer so fast Thanks! Well, what i actually wonder, is: Ron Shimek speaks about worms that work in the sand and mix it all, avoiding "dead zones". I saw a couple of them in my main tank, so i"ll probably get some in the refugium, but maybe not enough... Well, i'll try it like this. Thanks again. Anybody wanting to add something else is welcome

12/09/2006, 03:37 PM	#5
chris.hampton Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 490	With live rock in both tanks you will get all the life you will need in both of your sand beds, the little critters will also go through the pumps or plumbing no problem as well. I have also found that the european forums aren't very good compared to this one! Welcome by the way!! __________________ Imagine how deep the ocean would be if there wasn’t any sponges!! Current Tank Info: 95 (UK) gal 2 years old and 10 gal with bangi babies!!!

12/10/2006, 01:37 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	11 euros per kilo is about what we pay here for good-quality live sand. The live rock will supply some animals, although how well that'll work is open to question. I paid for some kits to stock my DSBs. Are you saying the DSB has a plenum? I'd be worried about that turning into a problem, perhaps collection hydrogen sulfide gas, for example. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/09/2006, 02:59 PM	#2
piquesegue Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany and France Posts: 27	ok, just found a conversion table Main tank: 58 Gallons Refugium: 52 Gallons Probably easier to read for you

12/10/2006, 06:59 AM	#6
piquesegue Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany and France Posts: 27	nobody else having an opinion about it? Would like to hear different voices. Thanks

12/10/2006, 01:30 PM	#7
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	I have read here on RC, that it is good to restock the fauna in the DSB. Many threads suggest the Detrivor kits as a way of introducing different types of organisms. Like someone else said sand from an established tank is great also both is better.

12/10/2006, 03:30 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I think the aquacultured live sand I've been eyeing for my new tank runs $4 per lb, plus (expensive) shipping. The separate areas sounds fine, although the DSB part might be too small to do much. I think 40g often is considered the lower end for functional size, although I don't know of any data on the subject. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni