What is wrong here

ReefTank1 · 12/10/2006, 08:46 PM

I have had a 175 gallon tank for over a year now. However, I am constantly reading at 80 ppm nitrates. Even right after I do a 25% water change its that high.

My fish are:
1 Indian ocean triggerfish (Melicthys Indicus) (5'')
1 Magnificent foxface (6'')
1 Yellow tang (3'')
1 Purple tang (3'')
1 Zebra eel (30'')
1 Scorpionfish (Rhinopias Frondosa) (4'')
1 Richmond's Wrasse (Halichoeres Richmondi) (4'')
1 Maroon Clownfish (4'')
3 Damselfish (1'')

Filtration is:

In sump Euro Reef RS180, works very well

Ball of chaeto in refugium that never grows for some reason even with 80ppm nitrate

Around 100 pounds Live rock

I run Kent carbon and RowaPhos when needed in 2 reactors

Phosphates are good at 0.03ppm, all other parameters are also good, I also never get nuisance algae and all fish are healthy, my Soft corals, Rose anemone and LPS grow very well in the tank. I won't put in any SPS until my levels are down

Is my skimmer/filtration inadequate? Do I have too high of a fish load? Is the test kit bad (its this one http://cms.aquariumpharm.com/resourc...yImage_516.jpg )? Just want to know so I can fix my parameters soon.

Thanks for your help

2swift · 12/10/2006, 09:16 PM

What light do you have on your fuge?
And what is your light schedule?
The cheato yes is a nitrate exporter but needs good light to grow
and do it's job, Mine do very well with a 27w 5500k bulb from depot that I run on a 12 hour opposite of the display.

poppin_fresh · 12/10/2006, 09:22 PM

I would take a look in the Chemistry forum for RHF's article on Nitrates.

Have you verified the 80PPM with a different test kit (LFS for example).

ReefTank1 · 12/10/2006, 09:30 PM

http://www.esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?I...lationship=259
This is the one, probably not strong enough but I should at least see a little growth. Its on reverse schedule. I'll replace it, can I see a picture of one of those home depot lamps?

wife no likey · 12/10/2006, 09:36 PM

That is a fairly substantial load. . and with only 100 pounds of rock, you probably don't have enough area for the necessary bacteria to handle it.

How much flow is in the tank? Increasing it may assist in keeping particulate matter suspended and thus facilitating getting it skimmed out.

You may also want to think about doing a remote DSB (no personal experience) as people say that they work

kzoo · 12/10/2006, 09:40 PM

I would say you have a some what large fish load due to the size of the fish and the kind of fish they are, there all are messy eatters and must take some meatty food to keep them happy. What is your feedings like ? You almost have and agressive tank and would be surprised if you can keep those fish and hard coral. What flow do you have?

Chad Vossen · 12/10/2006, 09:44 PM

look around RC for some info on dosing vodka or sugar to reduce nitrates.

your chaeto ball probly has other limiting factors than light, it requires nitrates of course, which you have, and it needs iron, phosphates and more which dont usualy matter. i started dosing iron fertilizer for planted aquariums in my reef tank and my chaeto grows crazy, i even have chaeto growing in my display and its attached to the rocks... you seem to have a little phosphates, so i wouldnt call it a limiting factor yet.

Craig Lambert · 12/10/2006, 09:50 PM

First off, I think your test kit is no good. I don't think your corals would be doing OK if you had a nitrate reading of 80. You should have twice the amount of live rock you currently have. Is your substrate crushed coral? What about flow? How often and what quantity do you feed? Also, three of your fishes expell a ton of waste. Inspite of these things, I still think the test kit is no good.

MJT82 · 12/10/2006, 09:58 PM

I second Craig's post... Take a sample to your LFS to see if your kit is off.

dippin61 · 12/10/2006, 10:05 PM

with only 100 lbs of LR in a 175.. id look for at least another 100 lbs of liverock.. put it in your sump if you dont want it in your display.

it will greatly help in filtration.

ReefTank1 · 12/11/2006, 02:41 PM

I have a 3-4 inch argonite sand bed in the tank.
I don't have too much flow, just the little giant return pump and a seio powerhead
So does the chaeto need iron supplements to actually grow?
By the way the chaeto has a lot of Aptasia's on it, does this inhibit the growth?

the other tang · 12/11/2006, 02:47 PM

start up a dsb, there are threads galore on how to set on up. Read about dosing sugar. Key word there read, make an informed decision. I useit but there as many opinions on that as the causes of global warming.

miztic · 12/11/2006, 02:54 PM

Have you tested the nitrates in the fresh change water? maybe your RO/DI filter is leaving some 'trates in ?

2swift · 12/11/2006, 02:57 PM

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74126.htm

ReefTank1 · 12/11/2006, 02:59 PM

the TDS reading of the RO unit was around 7 from what I can remember, I haven't tested the nitrates though

dippin61 · 12/11/2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefTank1
the TDS reading of the RO unit was around 7 from what I can remember, I haven't tested the nitrates though

OUCH

ReefTank1 · 12/11/2006, 04:11 PM

Does that TDS account for 80ppm nitrates?
My memory is not too good, so this might not be the right number, what is your TDS? My unit is only RO and not DI

About feeding: I don't feed the non predators very much, a bit of of Omega 1 flakes every day and a cube of mysis and a clip of nori every other day or so.
The Scorpionfish is fed 3-4 silversides twice a week and the eel is fed around 3 2'' shrimps or squid every week. Anemone is fed minimally with silversides and Gonioporas are fed reef roids once in a while

thanks for your responses

RichConley · 12/11/2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig Lambert
First off, I think your test kit is no good. I don't think your corals would be doing OK if you had a nitrate reading of 80. You should have twice the amount of live rock you currently have. Is your substrate crushed coral? What about flow? How often and what quantity do you feed? Also, three of your fishes expell a ton of waste. Inspite of these things, I still think the test kit is no good.

Craig, I've never seen nitrates harm corals. Its almost always phosphates doing it.

THat being said, I agree with you that the kit is wrong.

RichConley · 12/11/2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the other tang
start up a dsb, there are threads galore on how to set on up. Read about dosing sugar. Key word there read, make an informed decision. I useit but there as many opinions on that as the causes of global warming.

Hold on, are you saying sugar caused global warming?

Do you sell corn syrup or something?

ReefTank1 · 12/11/2006, 04:15 PM

I think he meant that there are as many different opinions about Deep sand beds and sugar dosing as there are about global warming

Craig Lambert · 12/11/2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
Craig, I've never seen nitrates harm corals. Its almost always phosphates doing it.

THat being said, I agree with you that the kit is wrong.

I always thought it was bad for them, but you are correct. It isn't toxic. It does slow their growth though. I found this article of Randy's:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

ReefTank1 · 12/12/2006, 03:25 PM

Does that TDS account for 80ppm nitrates?
My memory is not too good, so this might not be the right number, what is your TDS? My unit is only RO and not DI

About feeding: I don't feed the non predators very much, a bit of of Omega 1 flakes every day and a cube of mysis and a clip of nori every other day or so.
The Scorpionfish is fed 3-4 silversides twice a week and the eel is fed around 3 2'' shrimps or squid every week. Anemone is fed minimally with silversides and Gonioporas are fed reef roids once in a while

thanks for your responses

ReefTank1 · 12/13/2006, 03:04 PM

anything wrong with my filtration or feeding? any other suggestions?

thanks

dippin61 · 12/13/2006, 05:06 PM

flakes are one of the worst foods to feed the tank, if you want good water parameters.. at least thats what ive read.. i dunno, i hardly feed flake anyways.. maybe someone who knows more can chime in.

the other tang · 12/14/2006, 10:44 AM

Thanks reeftank1, that is exactly what I meant. Although I have no scientific proof to back this up, I agree flake is the worst. My lfs has told me that for years, usually when i am buying some. I feed it beause of my yellow tang but not heavily. I really think you should search for a thread about dsb or rdsb on here Anthony Calfo has a very detailed thread. Adding one does not address the source of the issue but it does work in just about all cases. I'm not trying to sell you on an idea just saying read the thread, warning its 40+ pages but good stuff if your looking for 0 nitrates.

12/10/2006, 08:46 PM	#1
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	What is wrong here I have had a 175 gallon tank for over a year now. However, I am constantly reading at 80 ppm nitrates. Even right after I do a 25% water change its that high. My fish are: 1 Indian ocean triggerfish (Melicthys Indicus) (5'') 1 Magnificent foxface (6'') 1 Yellow tang (3'') 1 Purple tang (3'') 1 Zebra eel (30'') 1 Scorpionfish (Rhinopias Frondosa) (4'') 1 Richmond's Wrasse (Halichoeres Richmondi) (4'') 1 Maroon Clownfish (4'') 3 Damselfish (1'') Filtration is: In sump Euro Reef RS180, works very well Ball of chaeto in refugium that never grows for some reason even with 80ppm nitrate Around 100 pounds Live rock I run Kent carbon and RowaPhos when needed in 2 reactors Phosphates are good at 0.03ppm, all other parameters are also good, I also never get nuisance algae and all fish are healthy, my Soft corals, Rose anemone and LPS grow very well in the tank. I won't put in any SPS until my levels are down Is my skimmer/filtration inadequate? Do I have too high of a fish load? Is the test kit bad (its this one http://cms.aquariumpharm.com/resourc...yImage_516.jpg )? Just want to know so I can fix my parameters soon. Thanks for your help

12/10/2006, 09:16 PM	#2
2swift Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ruskin,FLA Posts: 876	What light do you have on your fuge? And what is your light schedule? The cheato yes is a nitrate exporter but needs good light to grow and do it's job, Mine do very well with a 27w 5500k bulb from depot that I run on a 12 hour opposite of the display. __________________ Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Current Tank Info: 150g with twin FX4 canisters-Jebao 90Wave maker-2 AQUASKY Fluval Lights-AquaMaxx TS-2 Sulfur Denitrator

12/10/2006, 09:22 PM	#3
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	I would take a look in the Chemistry forum for RHF's article on Nitrates. Have you verified the 80PPM with a different test kit (LFS for example). __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/10/2006, 09:44 PM	#7
Chad Vossen Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: St. Cloud, Minnesota Posts: 1,313	look around RC for some info on dosing vodka or sugar to reduce nitrates. your chaeto ball probly has other limiting factors than light, it requires nitrates of course, which you have, and it needs iron, phosphates and more which dont usualy matter. i started dosing iron fertilizer for planted aquariums in my reef tank and my chaeto grows crazy, i even have chaeto growing in my display and its attached to the rocks... you seem to have a little phosphates, so i wouldnt call it a limiting factor yet. __________________ Chad Vossen Current Tank Info: just a bunch of fish :)

12/10/2006, 09:50 PM	#8
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	First off, I think your test kit is no good. I don't think your corals would be doing OK if you had a nitrate reading of 80. You should have twice the amount of live rock you currently have. Is your substrate crushed coral? What about flow? How often and what quantity do you feed? Also, three of your fishes expell a ton of waste. Inspite of these things, I still think the test kit is no good. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

12/10/2006, 09:30 PM	#4
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	http://www.esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?I...lationship=259 This is the one, probably not strong enough but I should at least see a little growth. Its on reverse schedule. I'll replace it, can I see a picture of one of those home depot lamps?

12/10/2006, 09:36 PM	#5
wife no likey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 647	That is a fairly substantial load. . and with only 100 pounds of rock, you probably don't have enough area for the necessary bacteria to handle it. How much flow is in the tank? Increasing it may assist in keeping particulate matter suspended and thus facilitating getting it skimmed out. You may also want to think about doing a remote DSB (no personal experience) as people say that they work

12/10/2006, 09:40 PM	#6
kzoo Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 589	I would say you have a some what large fish load due to the size of the fish and the kind of fish they are, there all are messy eatters and must take some meatty food to keep them happy. What is your feedings like ? You almost have and agressive tank and would be surprised if you can keep those fish and hard coral. What flow do you have?

12/10/2006, 09:58 PM	#9
MJT82 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brandon, MS Posts: 410	I second Craig's post... Take a sample to your LFS to see if your kit is off. __________________ Reefing since 2002 100g with 20g sump/fuge - Softies/LPS - 4x54w T5's 30g with 10g sump - Softies/LPS - 4x39w T5's Current Tank Info: 100 gallon soft coral reef with 30 gallon sump

12/10/2006, 10:05 PM	#10
dippin61 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,897	with only 100 lbs of LR in a 175.. id look for at least another 100 lbs of liverock.. put it in your sump if you dont want it in your display. it will greatly help in filtration. __________________ Reefers Law: It can take about 48 hours to brown, and 48 weeks to color back up! Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon BB Low Iron Glass, Dual 110w VHO Actinics, 250w PFO MH 20k XM

12/11/2006, 02:41 PM	#11
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	I have a 3-4 inch argonite sand bed in the tank. I don't have too much flow, just the little giant return pump and a seio powerhead So does the chaeto need iron supplements to actually grow? By the way the chaeto has a lot of Aptasia's on it, does this inhibit the growth?

12/11/2006, 02:47 PM	#12
the other tang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cajun Country Posts: 359	start up a dsb, there are threads galore on how to set on up. Read about dosing sugar. Key word there read, make an informed decision. I useit but there as many opinions on that as the causes of global warming. __________________ Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right. Current Tank Info: 105 gal reef

12/11/2006, 02:54 PM	#13
miztic Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Glendale Heights, IL Posts: 591	Have you tested the nitrates in the fresh change water? maybe your RO/DI filter is leaving some 'trates in ?

12/11/2006, 02:57 PM	#14
2swift Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ruskin,FLA Posts: 876	http://www.goodmart.com/products/74126.htm __________________ Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Current Tank Info: 150g with twin FX4 canisters-Jebao 90Wave maker-2 AQUASKY Fluval Lights-AquaMaxx TS-2 Sulfur Denitrator

12/11/2006, 02:59 PM	#15
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	the TDS reading of the RO unit was around 7 from what I can remember, I haven't tested the nitrates though

12/11/2006, 04:11 PM	#17
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	Does that TDS account for 80ppm nitrates? My memory is not too good, so this might not be the right number, what is your TDS? My unit is only RO and not DI About feeding: I don't feed the non predators very much, a bit of of Omega 1 flakes every day and a cube of mysis and a clip of nori every other day or so. The Scorpionfish is fed 3-4 silversides twice a week and the eel is fed around 3 2'' shrimps or squid every week. Anemone is fed minimally with silversides and Gonioporas are fed reef roids once in a while thanks for your responses

12/11/2006, 04:15 PM	#20
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	I think he meant that there are as many different opinions about Deep sand beds and sugar dosing as there are about global warming

12/12/2006, 03:25 PM	#22
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	Does that TDS account for 80ppm nitrates? My memory is not too good, so this might not be the right number, what is your TDS? My unit is only RO and not DI About feeding: I don't feed the non predators very much, a bit of of Omega 1 flakes every day and a cube of mysis and a clip of nori every other day or so. The Scorpionfish is fed 3-4 silversides twice a week and the eel is fed around 3 2'' shrimps or squid every week. Anemone is fed minimally with silversides and Gonioporas are fed reef roids once in a while thanks for your responses

12/13/2006, 03:04 PM	#23
ReefTank1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 193	anything wrong with my filtration or feeding? any other suggestions? thanks

12/13/2006, 05:06 PM	#24
dippin61 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,897	flakes are one of the worst foods to feed the tank, if you want good water parameters.. at least thats what ive read.. i dunno, i hardly feed flake anyways.. maybe someone who knows more can chime in. __________________ Reefers Law: It can take about 48 hours to brown, and 48 weeks to color back up! Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon BB Low Iron Glass, Dual 110w VHO Actinics, 250w PFO MH 20k XM

12/14/2006, 10:44 AM	#25
the other tang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cajun Country Posts: 359	Thanks reeftank1, that is exactly what I meant. Although I have no scientific proof to back this up, I agree flake is the worst. My lfs has told me that for years, usually when i am buying some. I feed it beause of my yellow tang but not heavily. I really think you should search for a thread about dsb or rdsb on here Anthony Calfo has a very detailed thread. Adding one does not address the source of the issue but it does work in just about all cases. I'm not trying to sell you on an idea just saying read the thread, warning its 40+ pages but good stuff if your looking for 0 nitrates. __________________ Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right. Current Tank Info: 105 gal reef