Increasing live rock or bioballs or cleaning crew? HA problem

SATAN FISH · 10/24/2009, 06:01 PM

Tank setup.
125g w/20gal refuge housing large chunck of chaeto algae and etts skimmer rated for UP TO 400 gal.

The only filtration I have is the skimmer and the live rock. I also have the sponge that sits in the over flow box. I want more filtration. Should I get more live rock, or should I put my bio balls back in my sump? Don't bio balls simulate live rock minus the coraline algae?

Problem is hair algae. I have some sea hares on the way, but I know this is not solving the problem, but is a band aid fix. I bought the ETTS skimmer thinking that would solve my nutrient export, but it has not. I am dosing vodka every day but I think it is getting to be to much vodka. I am now up to 5ml a day! Phosphates are still at .1ppm down from .3ppm. Nitrates are 0ppm.

I don't feed the fish but once a day and never more than they can eat in 60-90 seconds. Blue tang, yellow tang, two fire fish, starry blenny, six line wrasse, green mandarin, pistol shrimp, fire shrimp (hmm, havent seen any of my 3 peppermint shrimp in about 3 weeks now that I think of it. maybe they are now phosphates?).
Cleaning crew is very minimal. I had one turbo snail, it died. 3 nassarius (sp) snails. and about 10-15 hermits. Maybe I should increase my cleaning crew substantially? I have heard for a 125 gal you should have like 30 turbo's. That seems excessive to me.

Lights are two 96watt actinic PC's and one 400watt 20k metal halide. Actinics on for 8hours, halide on for 4 hours.

What does hair algae look like when it dies? Some of my HA is a very normal color and long. Other parts of the tank look to be dying as they turn more of a tan color, like the green more or less just left the plant. Chunks of it fall off the rocks and float around the tank but it seems as though it is just the life cycle of the algae as it never goes away. There always seems to be fresh green algae.

jflick345 · 10/24/2009, 09:47 PM

You could try a phosban reactor to try and bring the phosphate down. Are you using RO/DI water in your tank?

Frogmanx82 · 10/24/2009, 10:04 PM

When referring to turbos, sometimes astrea snails are sold as turbos and they are much smaller than mexican turbos. Mexican turbos are the only snails that I have seen really put a dent in hair algae and I wouldn't put in any more than about 3 of them, see how they do before adding more. Starvation is a problem for them when the algae is gone. You definitely don't want 30 of them. When they die they really stink up the tank and sometimes its hard to tell. You really have to keep up with them and notice when they aren't moving.

Nassarius snails are cool, but they don't mess with algae.

I have about 20 red leg hermits, they are not keeping up with the hair algae in my 90 gallon tank. I've heard i need about 50 of them. I'm not sure I want that many.

Increasing live rock or bioballs won't help. Like jflick says, a place for some GFO for phosphate control is your best bet on adding filtration.

SATAN FISH · 10/25/2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jflick345

You could try a phosban reactor to try and bring the phosphate down. Are you using RO/DI water in your tank?

Actually, yes I am using RODI water. Although, I tested the RODI for phosphates and it was 0. I even tested straight tap water for PO4 and it was 0 as well! I have a really hard time believing that the only phosphates coming in are from my small pinch of flake food everyday. I am almost 100% certain the vodka is making the HA problem worse. Not to mention the crazy mess of that slime that comes with dosing vodka.

I'm about to just suck it up and keep spending a fortune on some phosban.

cnaegler · 10/25/2009, 06:25 PM

Maybe cut back on the vodka dosing and definitely go with GFO. I had hair algae for over a year. It would get so long, it would kill my acros from rubbing on them continuously. I finally changed GFO brands and did 25%/week water changes and it's finally gone!

SATAN FISH · 10/25/2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnaegler

Maybe cut back on the vodka dosing and definitely go with GFO. I had hair algae for over a year. It would get so long, it would kill my acros from rubbing on them continuously. I finally changed GFO brands and did 25%/week water changes and it's finally gone!

Wait... You changed brands? One brand wasn't working or something? Which wasn't working and which did work if you don't mind me asking? I had some of the Kent phosphate sponge, but it didn't last very long. It says to keep in in the water NO MORE than 72 hours I believe. After that it can start leaching phosphates back in. Is that true with all GFO?

cnaegler · 10/25/2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATAN FISH

Wait... You changed brands? One brand wasn't working or something? Which wasn't working and which did work if you don't mind me asking? I had some of the Kent phosphate sponge, but it didn't last very long. It says to keep in in the water NO MORE than 72 hours I believe. After that it can start leaching phosphates back in. Is that true with all GFO?

Well, i was using Rowa Phos and everytime i would take a toothbrush to the rock, it would just grow back. One day i was reading a thread on RC that discussed people having trouble with the Rowa so i switched to Bulk reef Supply's HC GFO and took a toothbrush to the HA and it hasn't come back since. If you really want to do damage to the HA, pick up a TLF phosban reactor, get some HC GFO from BRS. Pull all the HA you can, take a toothbrush to the rest. It's alot of work but i did it for days in my 180. Do as big a water changes as possible per week. But don't do more than 25-30%/week (some may disagree with this, but it's what worked for me.)
But be warned, when you scrub it off the rocks, you will get a good sized nutrient spike so i had a 50 gallon water change waiting. I also picked up almost 100 snails as well. The nutrient spike caused a cyano outburst but after a couple of water changes and a fresh batch of GFO and it's disappearing as well.

Gary Majchrzak · 10/25/2009, 07:03 PM

*although it removes phosphates* Kent's Phosphate Sponge isn't GFO (granular ferric oxide). It's an aluminum based PO4 adsorber.

IMO/IME Rowaphos is as effective (or perhaps even more effective) than the GFO BRS sells simply because it has more surface area by volume. It's a finer sized GFO.

Cheapo flake foods can contribute significantly to a phosphate problem.

more on GFO:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

spleify · 10/25/2009, 08:40 PM

Good advice so far. I would increase the clean up crew, up the frequency and amount of water changes, get a Two Little Fishes Phosban reactor some GOOD GFO like Gary mentions, harvest as much as possible out by hand daily. Continue with the water changes frequently.

Avoid the bioballs at all costs, they will NOT help you and in time will likely add to the problem.

HTH

Good luck

SATAN FISH · 10/25/2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak

*although it removes phosphates* Kent's Phosphate Sponge isn't GFO (granular ferric oxide). It's an aluminum based PO4 adsorber.

IMO/IME Rowaphos is as effective (or perhaps even more effective) than the GFO BRS sells simply because it has more surface area by volume. It's a finer sized GFO.

Cheapo flake foods can contribute significantly to a phosphate problem.

more on GFO:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

This is something I needed to know! That is ALL I've been feeding them. Ive been feeding small quantities though. Either way... What foods would be good for the fish I mentioned in my first post? I have some dried seaweed. I also have a little bit of Formula 1 granules, and some frozen blood worms.

1.So I will discontinue the flakes, and feed with...?
2.I will also add the granular ferric oxide as soon as it gets here. Instructions say to leave it in until PO4 starts to come back up, then replace again.
3.Pull as much HA by hand as I can. I think I will pull what rocks I can, and scrub them in a separate tank.

10/24/2009, 06:01 PM	#1
SATAN FISH Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Denver CO Posts: 206	Increasing live rock or bioballs or cleaning crew? HA problem Tank setup. 125g w/20gal refuge housing large chunck of chaeto algae and etts skimmer rated for UP TO 400 gal. The only filtration I have is the skimmer and the live rock. I also have the sponge that sits in the over flow box. I want more filtration. Should I get more live rock, or should I put my bio balls back in my sump? Don't bio balls simulate live rock minus the coraline algae? Problem is hair algae. I have some sea hares on the way, but I know this is not solving the problem, but is a band aid fix. I bought the ETTS skimmer thinking that would solve my nutrient export, but it has not. I am dosing vodka every day but I think it is getting to be to much vodka. I am now up to 5ml a day! Phosphates are still at .1ppm down from .3ppm. Nitrates are 0ppm. I don't feed the fish but once a day and never more than they can eat in 60-90 seconds. Blue tang, yellow tang, two fire fish, starry blenny, six line wrasse, green mandarin, pistol shrimp, fire shrimp (hmm, havent seen any of my 3 peppermint shrimp in about 3 weeks now that I think of it. maybe they are now phosphates?). Cleaning crew is very minimal. I had one turbo snail, it died. 3 nassarius (sp) snails. and about 10-15 hermits. Maybe I should increase my cleaning crew substantially? I have heard for a 125 gal you should have like 30 turbo's. That seems excessive to me. Lights are two 96watt actinic PC's and one 400watt 20k metal halide. Actinics on for 8hours, halide on for 4 hours. What does hair algae look like when it dies? Some of my HA is a very normal color and long. Other parts of the tank look to be dying as they turn more of a tan color, like the green more or less just left the plant. Chunks of it fall off the rocks and float around the tank but it seems as though it is just the life cycle of the algae as it never goes away. There always seems to be fresh green algae.

10/24/2009, 10:04 PM	#3
Frogmanx82 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,515	When referring to turbos, sometimes astrea snails are sold as turbos and they are much smaller than mexican turbos. Mexican turbos are the only snails that I have seen really put a dent in hair algae and I wouldn't put in any more than about 3 of them, see how they do before adding more. Starvation is a problem for them when the algae is gone. You definitely don't want 30 of them. When they die they really stink up the tank and sometimes its hard to tell. You really have to keep up with them and notice when they aren't moving. Nassarius snails are cool, but they don't mess with algae. I have about 20 red leg hermits, they are not keeping up with the hair algae in my 90 gallon tank. I've heard i need about 50 of them. I'm not sure I want that many. Increasing live rock or bioballs won't help. Like jflick says, a place for some GFO for phosphate control is your best bet on adding filtration. __________________ Exodus 8:2 Check my homepage for tank pics and details. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon, 2x maxspect R420R LED, 4 Ocellaris Clowns, Yellow Eye Kole Tang, Flame Angel, Foxface Rabbitfish, Banggai Cardinals, Azure Damsel, rock flower anemone, cleaner shrimp, serpent star

10/25/2009, 06:25 PM	#5
cnaegler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sylva, NC-Western North Carolina Posts: 960	Maybe cut back on the vodka dosing and definitely go with GFO. I had hair algae for over a year. It would get so long, it would kill my acros from rubbing on them continuously. I finally changed GFO brands and did 25%/week water changes and it's finally gone! __________________ Craig _________________________ ATL "Superman" acro, Vivid's Rainbow Delight acro wanted You can want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first!! Save the reefs! Buy captive bred fish and aquacultured corals! Current Tank Info: Downsizing to a 120 BB SPS tank, 6205 &6305 Tunze on 7095 controller, Current USA extreme 8 x 54 fixture

10/25/2009, 07:03 PM	#8
Gary Majchrzak Team RC Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 41,560	fwiw although it removes phosphates Kent's Phosphate Sponge isn't GFO (granular ferric oxide). It's an aluminum based PO4 adsorber. IMO/IME Rowaphos is as effective (or perhaps even more effective) than the GFO BRS sells simply because it has more surface area by volume. It's a finer sized GFO. Cheapo flake foods can contribute significantly to a phosphate problem. more on GFO: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php __________________ over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF Current Tank Info: 84x24x30 265g reef past TOTM honors Last edited by Gary Majchrzak; 10/25/2009 at 07:17 PM.

10/25/2009, 08:40 PM	#9
spleify Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 9,579	Good advice so far. I would increase the clean up crew, up the frequency and amount of water changes, get a Two Little Fishes Phosban reactor some GOOD GFO like Gary mentions, harvest as much as possible out by hand daily. Continue with the water changes frequently. Avoid the bioballs at all costs, they will NOT help you and in time will likely add to the problem. HTH Good luck __________________ Make it a Great Day!!!! Current Tank Info: 60 gal SPS cube, with 25 gal refugium, 400W MH, DIY Lumenarc III, DIY skimmer, DIY stand and canopy. 40 breeder LPS with 40 gallon sump, DIY stand, 250W MH

10/24/2009, 09:47 PM	#2
jflick345 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 884	You could try a phosban reactor to try and bring the phosphate down. Are you using RO/DI water in your tank?