100 Gallon - Is the Warner Marine just like the ASM?

Bruce Wayne · 04/08/2010, 04:41 PM

I was offered a warner marine 200 (rated for 200 gallons) I heard warner marines were good skimmers, but when I saw it had a sedra 9000 I was turned off...I was going to get an ASM G-4+ for a different tank and everyone on here was telling me how sedra pumps are very inefficient, how ASM is ancient technology (no bubble plate, silencers, etc) but the warner marine looks exactly the same...what is a good, no Great skimmer in the 3-400 dollar price range (used considered of course) for a 100 gallon high bioload?

thanks...

gcarroll · 04/08/2010, 05:28 PM

Which Warner Marine model is it. If it has the 9000HO pump then it is nothing like the ASM. It is a much different animal!

mchud · 04/08/2010, 06:13 PM

Warner stuff is great and the Sedra has been a good pump on it. I was a little worried when i got mine but it has been fine and Jon is great to deal with.

Bruce Wayne · 04/08/2010, 07:33 PM

the AS-200

stanlalee · 04/08/2010, 10:59 PM

You know perception is a funny thing. the Sedra pumps were the BEST thing about the ASM skimmers. Funny those pumps pulled the same air as the Vertex pumps with 10x the reliability and no less efficiency but perception is Sedra's should be avoided at all cost but its perfectly fine to recommend modified Resun junk. When Euroreef was in its prime Sedra's were supposedly heaven sent.

Bubble plates are a trend now. I'm sure there are those that work and actually have some thought to incorperating them. every new skimmer has one regardless of wether they are needed, help or hurt. When I got the Octopus PS-120 (discontinued) supposedly they discontinued it because it hurt performance enough to stop using. yet a few years later the NW line has these same bubble plates will little to no change in the pumps or specs of the body's/bubble plate. I've seen many skimmers budget skimmers with bubble plates and they are still as turbulent as ever at the transition before neck. Point is just because they have one for the sake of having one doesn't mean its any better than "dated" designs. Warner marine will be glad to send you a silencer if you buy a AS200. its a cylinder with a few tubes (another device that has gotten fancier and fancier with every new skimmer to "look" more modern).

Are ASM skimmers junk: Yes and it has mostly nothing to do with dated design (to this day most skimmers are still just a cylinder with aerated pump as good or bad as the body/neck/pump match. there have been no revolutions and just a few evolutions). they are junk because even a small G1x cost $245-285 retail and is made of cheap PVC plastic. they arent made well either and prone to leaks and coming apart at the seams. the Sedra's were the ONLY thing that ever made them competent. If it were a $150 skimmer it would be great. they still out perform the current octopus needle wheel line and perform okay in general.

So NO warner marine shouldn't be avoided because it uses a sedra pump. So what if doesn't do what it does at 30w like a pinwheel SICCE. it still pulls 1100lph of air and warner marine skimmers are well designed and built as always.

and you mean to tell me this:

and this:

look the same to you? these skimmers are NOTHING alike other then sharing the same brand pump.For $400 I'd try a Octopus XP-2000 cone (mainly because its a cone) which based on numbers alone "should be" more capable than a AS-200 but I wouldn't expect the same build quality, balance or support.

Bruce Wayne · 04/09/2010, 03:25 AM

wow...whenever I think I know something in this hobby I ask a question and get punked like that and then realize I know nothing...Thanks for the advice...Can I ask you another question? I am building a 60 gallon and I got a Octopus Extreme 160 though it says SWC all over it (the guy I bought it from gave me some long story) but it looks exactly like this:

I will take pictures as soon as I get back to that tank...

My question is when I got it, I got it used (no manual) so I looked at pictures of it online and noticed it was missing the small 90 degree elbow that comes out from the top of the pump so I got one from Home Depot and put it on there...I tried moving it around a little but I can't get it to skim right and I am getting a ton of micro bubbles coming out of it...what can I do? I was thinking maybe getting a small micron sock that has a tie and just put that on the outlet...will it just stop in a week or so? after the break in?

One more, sorry...What do you think about getting skimmers that are rated for much higher? I always assumed that the more the better, especially if I want to run a big bioload...what do you think? can you over-skim? should I worry about other parts of my filtration more than the protein skimmer?

thanks in advance...

stanlalee · 04/09/2010, 04:43 AM

older swc extreme 160/msx 160 extreme are the same skimmer (even has SWC on it on their website)

as is the octopus extreme 160 for the most part (older model)

the micro bubbles should stop once settled in but are you sure the elbow is the exact same size/length ect. I think I'd call SWC, marine solutions or one of the vendors to make sure a slight size difference isn't affecting performance or even get a replacement part if no one can verify the size is oem. what do you mean by not skimming right exactly? I'd give it at least 4 or 5 days before comcluding anything even if its used. do you have it sitting at the correct water level (in about 8" of water)? I dont have this particular skimmer so I'm not going to be but so much help but many others could probably help. might want to start a new thread where 160 extreme owners will notice and chime in.

as for oversizing skimmers well I have a skimmer rated for 90-150g on my 30g/10g sump so thats where I stand. I dont believe overskimming is possible but I do believe you can get a skimmer to big which wont perform like it should under too small a load. problem is you usually dont find out you've went to big until you've gone to big. Extreme 160 on a high bioload 60g is fine IMO.

Bruce Wayne · 04/10/2010, 06:54 AM

ok, last question, what in sump skimmer would you go with for a 180 gallon high bio load with a 36" stand?

stanlalee · 04/10/2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne

ok, last question, what in sump skimmer would you go with for a 180 gallon high bio load with a 36" stand?

for how much $$

GQuinn · 04/10/2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanlalee

You know perception is a funny thing. the Sedra pumps were the BEST thing about the ASM skimmers. Funny those pumps pulled the same air as the Vertex pumps with 10x the reliability and no less efficiency but perception is Sedra's should be avoided at all cost but its perfectly fine to recommend modified Resun junk. When Euroreef was in its prime Sedra's were supposedly heaven sent.

Bubble plates are a trend now. I'm sure there are those that work and actually have some thought to incorperating them. every new skimmer has one regardless of wether they are needed, help or hurt. When I got the Octopus PS-120 (discontinued) supposedly they discontinued it because it hurt performance enough to stop using. yet a few years later the NW line has these same bubble plates will little to no change in the pumps or specs of the body's/bubble plate. I've seen many skimmers budget skimmers with bubble plates and they are still as turbulent as ever at the transition before neck. Point is just because they have one for the sake of having one doesn't mean its any better than "dated" designs. Warner marine will be glad to send you a silencer if you buy a AS200. its a cylinder with a few tubes (another device that has gotten fancier and fancier with every new skimmer to "look" more modern).

Are ASM skimmers junk: Yes and it has mostly nothing to do with dated design (to this day most skimmers are still just a cylinder with aerated pump as good or bad as the body/neck/pump match. there have been no revolutions and just a few evolutions). they are junk because even a small G1x cost $245-285 retail and is made of cheap PVC plastic. they arent made well either and prone to leaks and coming apart at the seams. the Sedra's were the ONLY thing that ever made them competent. If it were a $150 skimmer it would be great. they still out perform the current octopus needle wheel line and perform okay in general.

So NO warner marine shouldn't be avoided because it uses a sedra pump. So what if doesn't do what it does at 30w like a pinwheel SICCE. it still pulls 1100lph of air and warner marine skimmers are well designed and built as always.

Well said, especially the part about the pumps.

Gary

Bruce Wayne · 04/11/2010, 03:14 AM

idk...I am setting up a 100 gallon with a co-worker for the office will be mostly fish and some softies (low maintenance) and a 60 gallon in my apt just to start collecting frags for when I get a bigger place and get a 180 (prob a few months)...so idk, I'm open to any suggestions...

04/08/2010, 04:41 PM	#1
Bruce Wayne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 297	100 Gallon - Is the Warner Marine just like the ASM? I was offered a warner marine 200 (rated for 200 gallons) I heard warner marines were good skimmers, but when I saw it had a sedra 9000 I was turned off...I was going to get an ASM G-4+ for a different tank and everyone on here was telling me how sedra pumps are very inefficient, how ASM is ancient technology (no bubble plate, silencers, etc) but the warner marine looks exactly the same...what is a good, no Great skimmer in the 3-400 dollar price range (used considered of course) for a 100 gallon high bioload? thanks...

04/08/2010, 05:28 PM	#2
gcarroll Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 9,666	Which Warner Marine model is it. If it has the 9000HO pump then it is nothing like the ASM. It is a much different animal! __________________ Greg Carroll I will be at REEF-A-PALOOZA! SPS = Stability Promotes Success Be wary of advice coming from those who will not show you the fruits of their success! Current Tank Info: building: 250g AGE Euro tank, Abyzz A200, Vertex Supra-G filtration, Ecotech Radion Pro LEDs, ...

04/08/2010, 06:13 PM	#3
mchud Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gill Mass Posts: 371	Warner stuff is great and the Sedra has been a good pump on it. I was a little worried when i got mine but it has been fine and Jon is great to deal with. __________________ Will miss you Wild Bill RIP Tessa Best friend of 14 years Bob Dog my buddy of 12.5 years Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon Dt, 150 gal sump, 100 gal frag tank and 12000 gal koi pond and 1200 goldfish pond.

04/09/2010, 03:25 AM	#6
Bruce Wayne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 297	wow...whenever I think I know something in this hobby I ask a question and get punked like that and then realize I know nothing...Thanks for the advice...Can I ask you another question? I am building a 60 gallon and I got a Octopus Extreme 160 though it says SWC all over it (the guy I bought it from gave me some long story) but it looks exactly like this: I will take pictures as soon as I get back to that tank... My question is when I got it, I got it used (no manual) so I looked at pictures of it online and noticed it was missing the small 90 degree elbow that comes out from the top of the pump so I got one from Home Depot and put it on there...I tried moving it around a little but I can't get it to skim right and I am getting a ton of micro bubbles coming out of it...what can I do? I was thinking maybe getting a small micron sock that has a tie and just put that on the outlet...will it just stop in a week or so? after the break in? One more, sorry...What do you think about getting skimmers that are rated for much higher? I always assumed that the more the better, especially if I want to run a big bioload...what do you think? can you over-skim? should I worry about other parts of my filtration more than the protein skimmer? thanks in advance... Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 04/09/2010 at 03:31 AM.

04/08/2010, 07:33 PM	#4
Bruce Wayne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 297	the AS-200

04/08/2010, 10:59 PM	#5
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	You know perception is a funny thing. the Sedra pumps were the BEST thing about the ASM skimmers. Funny those pumps pulled the same air as the Vertex pumps with 10x the reliability and no less efficiency but perception is Sedra's should be avoided at all cost but its perfectly fine to recommend modified Resun junk. When Euroreef was in its prime Sedra's were supposedly heaven sent. Bubble plates are a trend now. I'm sure there are those that work and actually have some thought to incorperating them. every new skimmer has one regardless of wether they are needed, help or hurt. When I got the Octopus PS-120 (discontinued) supposedly they discontinued it because it hurt performance enough to stop using. yet a few years later the NW line has these same bubble plates will little to no change in the pumps or specs of the body's/bubble plate. I've seen many skimmers budget skimmers with bubble plates and they are still as turbulent as ever at the transition before neck. Point is just because they have one for the sake of having one doesn't mean its any better than "dated" designs. Warner marine will be glad to send you a silencer if you buy a AS200. its a cylinder with a few tubes (another device that has gotten fancier and fancier with every new skimmer to "look" more modern). Are ASM skimmers junk: Yes and it has mostly nothing to do with dated design (to this day most skimmers are still just a cylinder with aerated pump as good or bad as the body/neck/pump match. there have been no revolutions and just a few evolutions). they are junk because even a small G1x cost $245-285 retail and is made of cheap PVC plastic. they arent made well either and prone to leaks and coming apart at the seams. the Sedra's were the ONLY thing that ever made them competent. If it were a $150 skimmer it would be great. they still out perform the current octopus needle wheel line and perform okay in general. So NO warner marine shouldn't be avoided because it uses a sedra pump. So what if doesn't do what it does at 30w like a pinwheel SICCE. it still pulls 1100lph of air and warner marine skimmers are well designed and built as always. and you mean to tell me this: and this: look the same to you? these skimmers are NOTHING alike other then sharing the same brand pump.For $400 I'd try a Octopus XP-2000 cone (mainly because its a cone) which based on numbers alone "should be" more capable than a AS-200 but I wouldn't expect the same build quality, balance or support.

04/09/2010, 04:43 AM	#7
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	older swc extreme 160/msx 160 extreme are the same skimmer (even has SWC on it on their website) as is the octopus extreme 160 for the most part (older model) the micro bubbles should stop once settled in but are you sure the elbow is the exact same size/length ect. I think I'd call SWC, marine solutions or one of the vendors to make sure a slight size difference isn't affecting performance or even get a replacement part if no one can verify the size is oem. what do you mean by not skimming right exactly? I'd give it at least 4 or 5 days before comcluding anything even if its used. do you have it sitting at the correct water level (in about 8" of water)? I dont have this particular skimmer so I'm not going to be but so much help but many others could probably help. might want to start a new thread where 160 extreme owners will notice and chime in. as for oversizing skimmers well I have a skimmer rated for 90-150g on my 30g/10g sump so thats where I stand. I dont believe overskimming is possible but I do believe you can get a skimmer to big which wont perform like it should under too small a load. problem is you usually dont find out you've went to big until you've gone to big. Extreme 160 on a high bioload 60g is fine IMO.

04/10/2010, 06:54 AM	#8
Bruce Wayne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 297	ok, last question, what in sump skimmer would you go with for a 180 gallon high bio load with a 36" stand?

04/11/2010, 03:14 AM	#11
Bruce Wayne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 297	idk...I am setting up a 100 gallon with a co-worker for the office will be mostly fish and some softies (low maintenance) and a 60 gallon in my apt just to start collecting frags for when I get a bigger place and get a 180 (prob a few months)...so idk, I'm open to any suggestions...