Built in overflow plumbing question

gmdcdvm · 05/16/2016, 05:50 AM

So I am working on the design for my new to me (used) 180g tank. It has a built in corner twin overflow.

I am trying to make the overflow as quiet as possible. The height of the tank/overflow is 24 inches. How should I plumb the overflow to reduce noise. What I think I should do insert a length of PCV pipe with several drilled holes into each overflow, but I am not sure how high I should make this. Then, I assume I have to place some sort of top on it depending on which style of noise reduction works best.

Am I on the right track with this? Or is there a better way.

My other questions is with regards to a safety overflow should thee twin overflows ever get plugged. The beanamimal relies essentially on a separate overflow for this. Should I potentially drill another overflow for this function or is there a different way to do this.

I hope this all makes sense. A lot of this is new to me and I may not be using the right terminology.

Thanks again,
Gerry

Greybeard · 05/16/2016, 08:03 AM

The 'standard' corner-flo system is 2 bulkheads, intended as one Durso drain, and one return, in each overflow box. They should come with plumbing parts designed to create a durso overflow. Those parts are a length of tube, and a 'U' shaped bit made up of a couple of street elbows, with a couple holes drilled in it. The return is a tube, an elbow, and a bit of loc-line. I'm assuming your used tank didn't come with these parts. No big loss, really. It's a few bucks worth of PVC.

My 60g Marineland cube had 2x 1" bulkheads in it's single Corner-Flo overflow. I suspect yours has the same, doubled.

Your first, easiest, option will be to recreate a standard Durso style overflow. There's lots of online references... just google Durso overflow.

I initially set mine up as the factory intended. I then struggled for weeks, trying all sorts of things to quiet it down. Various relief holes, reverse durso at the sump end, tried everything, couldn't make it quiet enough to satisfy myself. Eventually, I gave up, and converted the entire thing to a 'herbie' style drain, using both bulkheads for the drain, and ran a return outside the tank. Silence. I couldn't be happier. I posted about the process some time back...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=38

gmdcdvm · 05/16/2016, 09:30 AM

So I looked more closely at the overflow. There are two holes. A divider is in the middle but it only goes to about 2 inches off the bottom. Essentially it's one large chamber for all intents since the "divider" does not completely separate both sides into individual chambers. I'm wondering if one drain would be enough and using the second as the back up
For the herbie.

This would reduce sump flow but I plan on having some mp40's on the inside along with the live rock.

What do you think?

Greybeard · 05/16/2016, 10:16 AM

So... you have 2 corner overflows... each has 2 bulkheads. It would help to know the diameter of the bulkheads. If each of the 2 overlows has 2 1" or greater bulkheads, then a herbie style drain should be possible... even fairly simple, to achieve, and should be able to handle a pretty good sized return pump.

I think the general consensus these days is not to rely on your main return pump for the flow your reef needs, the MP40's, or some sort of internal powerhead is more typical. I think a generally acceptable low end tank turnover through the sump is what, 4X per hour? So, what, 750 GPH? Even doubling that to 1500 GPH, 2x 1" siphon drains should be fully capable of handling that sort of flow. My single herbie drain (2X 1" bulkheads) is handling about 900 GPH. That's about it's max. It's not the drain that is limiting it, but the flow through the strainer at the top of the corner-flo itself that is nearing it's capacity.

If it were me, I'd set up 2 of the bulkheads with equal length pipe about half the height of the overflow compartment, with strainers at the tops. Run each of the bottom of these two bulkheads through a gate valve, and then into the sump, so that the pipe exists a few inches below normal water level. The other two bulkheads, I'd put a pipe to desired water level in the overflow box, a half inch below the overflow height. If you make it shorter, you'll get water fall sounds from the overflow. Plumb these into the sump with no valves, just straight drops, ending just below water level. Plumb the return line over the back of the tank, however it works best for you.

To adjust the flow, open both gate valves all the way, and start your return pump. it'll be noisy as heck, don't panic. Start closing both gate valves, a little at a time, trying to keep them even, until the water level in both overflow boxes starts going up slowly. When things are just right, you should be getting a trickle, just a trickle, of water into one or both of the taller standpipes. The main, valved, standpipes will be running at full siphon, and be completely noiseless. It took me some tweaking for the first month or so, a bit more, a bit less, until things got stable. I haven't touched the gate valve in months.

tthouston · 05/16/2016, 11:15 AM

Mr. Greybeard was giving you very clear the instruction how to build it, I just add a little comment for you is CUT the drain pipe (inside overflow box) near at the top and put it together by other pcv adapter (NO GLUE one side) so you can adjust high or low to reduce the noise. If it too low you will hear the water fall from DT but if it too high then it won't siphon. I offer cut near on the top of the pipe so you can use one hand to hold and pull up and down for adjust the high of your drain pipe.

tthouston · 05/16/2016, 01:08 PM

gmdcdvm · 05/16/2016, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the help. I need to clear some confusion. Essentially the tank has one overflow and two bulkheads. Total of two holes. In looking at the set up there is no room for additional holes to be drilled ok the bottom. But I could potentially drill one on the vertical wall near the bottom of the overflow to add another. What do you think?

Greybeard · 05/17/2016, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmdcdvm

Thanks for the help. I need to clear some confusion. Essentially the tank has one overflow and two bulkheads. Total of two holes. In looking at the set up there is no room for additional holes to be drilled ok the bottom. But I could potentially drill one on the vertical wall near the bottom of the overflow to add another. What do you think?

Hm. Now I'm confused. From your original description, you stated dual corner overflows. Do you have only one? In a 180g tank?

If you only have 1 corner overflow, with 2 holes, unless those holes are fairly large, flow through your sump is going to be on the low side. That's not necessarily a problem, I've used sump flow rates of 3X tank volume per hour with good success. Just about any drilled overflow can handle more than 600 GPH.

If you have 2X corner overflows, both with 2 holes, then you can handle quite a bit more flow.

As for drilling more holes, I'm not sure you need to. If your corner overflow has 2 holes, most do, you can use them either as a Durso with an in-tank return line, as tthouston's diagram shows, or as a Herbie, as I suggested. Both work fine. I've never been able to get a Durso as quiet as I want it, but if a little noise isn't a big deal for you, then the Durso is easier, and is in fact how your factory drilled tank was designed to be plumbed.

With a Herbie, you can achieve a quieter overflow fairly easy, but you'll need to use both holes in the overflow for the drain, and run the return line over the back of the tank. I suppose you could drill for the return, but it's really not necessary.

You would also need to drill for a 'BeAnAnimal' type drain, but honestly, if everything else in the system is properly sized, that dry emergency drain is unnecessary.

gmdcdvm · 05/17/2016, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the info guys. Sorry about the confusion. Yes, one overflow with just two holes total.

RedStangGA · 05/18/2016, 08:17 AM

I drilled the back of my Marineland 60 frameless cube in the overflow area and used the 2 holes to run a herbie and the drilled hole on the back wall for the return.

On my 220 I'll be removing the corner overflows and drilling holes for a "ghost" type overflow and capping the 4 holes on the bottom of the tank.

Greybeard · 05/18/2016, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStangGA

I drilled the back of my Marineland 60 frameless cube in the overflow area and used the 2 holes to run a herbie and the drilled hole on the back wall for the return.

I've got the same tank, plumbed in much the same way, but ran the return over the top instead of drilling.

gmdcdvm · 05/18/2016, 02:23 PM

Thanks for the help everyone. Looks like with only two holes my plan is a herbie unless I drill a third hole.

05/16/2016, 05:50 AM	#1
gmdcdvm Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 170	Built in overflow plumbing question So I am working on the design for my new to me (used) 180g tank. It has a built in corner twin overflow. I am trying to make the overflow as quiet as possible. The height of the tank/overflow is 24 inches. How should I plumb the overflow to reduce noise. What I think I should do insert a length of PCV pipe with several drilled holes into each overflow, but I am not sure how high I should make this. Then, I assume I have to place some sort of top on it depending on which style of noise reduction works best. Am I on the right track with this? Or is there a better way. My other questions is with regards to a safety overflow should thee twin overflows ever get plugged. The beanamimal relies essentially on a separate overflow for this. Should I potentially drill another overflow for this function or is there a different way to do this. I hope this all makes sense. A lot of this is new to me and I may not be using the right terminology. Thanks again, Gerry

05/16/2016, 11:15 AM	#5
tthouston Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 128	Mr. Greybeard was giving you very clear the instruction how to build it, I just add a little comment for you is CUT the drain pipe (inside overflow box) near at the top and put it together by other pcv adapter (NO GLUE one side) so you can adjust high or low to reduce the noise. If it too low you will hear the water fall from DT but if it too high then it won't siphon. I offer cut near on the top of the pipe so you can use one hand to hold and pull up and down for adjust the high of your drain pipe. Last edited by tthouston; 05/16/2016 at 11:47 AM.

05/18/2016, 08:17 AM	#10
RedStangGA Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Winter Garden, FL Posts: 1,052	I drilled the back of my Marineland 60 frameless cube in the overflow area and used the 2 holes to run a herbie and the drilled hole on the back wall for the return. On my 220 I'll be removing the corner overflows and drilling holes for a "ghost" type overflow and capping the 4 holes on the bottom of the tank. __________________ Marineland 220, Marineland 60 Cube

05/16/2016, 08:03 AM	#2
Greybeard Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Buffalo, MO Posts: 651	The 'standard' corner-flo system is 2 bulkheads, intended as one Durso drain, and one return, in each overflow box. They should come with plumbing parts designed to create a durso overflow. Those parts are a length of tube, and a 'U' shaped bit made up of a couple of street elbows, with a couple holes drilled in it. The return is a tube, an elbow, and a bit of loc-line. I'm assuming your used tank didn't come with these parts. No big loss, really. It's a few bucks worth of PVC. My 60g Marineland cube had 2x 1" bulkheads in it's single Corner-Flo overflow. I suspect yours has the same, doubled. Your first, easiest, option will be to recreate a standard Durso style overflow. There's lots of online references... just google Durso overflow. I initially set mine up as the factory intended. I then struggled for weeks, trying all sorts of things to quiet it down. Various relief holes, reverse durso at the sump end, tried everything, couldn't make it quiet enough to satisfy myself. Eventually, I gave up, and converted the entire thing to a 'herbie' style drain, using both bulkheads for the drain, and ran a return outside the tank. Silence. I couldn't be happier. I posted about the process some time back... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=38

05/16/2016, 09:30 AM	#3
gmdcdvm Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 170	So I looked more closely at the overflow. There are two holes. A divider is in the middle but it only goes to about 2 inches off the bottom. Essentially it's one large chamber for all intents since the "divider" does not completely separate both sides into individual chambers. I'm wondering if one drain would be enough and using the second as the back up For the herbie. This would reduce sump flow but I plan on having some mp40's on the inside along with the live rock. What do you think?

05/16/2016, 10:16 AM	#4
Greybeard Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Buffalo, MO Posts: 651	So... you have 2 corner overflows... each has 2 bulkheads. It would help to know the diameter of the bulkheads. If each of the 2 overlows has 2 1" or greater bulkheads, then a herbie style drain should be possible... even fairly simple, to achieve, and should be able to handle a pretty good sized return pump. I think the general consensus these days is not to rely on your main return pump for the flow your reef needs, the MP40's, or some sort of internal powerhead is more typical. I think a generally acceptable low end tank turnover through the sump is what, 4X per hour? So, what, 750 GPH? Even doubling that to 1500 GPH, 2x 1" siphon drains should be fully capable of handling that sort of flow. My single herbie drain (2X 1" bulkheads) is handling about 900 GPH. That's about it's max. It's not the drain that is limiting it, but the flow through the strainer at the top of the corner-flo itself that is nearing it's capacity. If it were me, I'd set up 2 of the bulkheads with equal length pipe about half the height of the overflow compartment, with strainers at the tops. Run each of the bottom of these two bulkheads through a gate valve, and then into the sump, so that the pipe exists a few inches below normal water level. The other two bulkheads, I'd put a pipe to desired water level in the overflow box, a half inch below the overflow height. If you make it shorter, you'll get water fall sounds from the overflow. Plumb these into the sump with no valves, just straight drops, ending just below water level. Plumb the return line over the back of the tank, however it works best for you. To adjust the flow, open both gate valves all the way, and start your return pump. it'll be noisy as heck, don't panic. Start closing both gate valves, a little at a time, trying to keep them even, until the water level in both overflow boxes starts going up slowly. When things are just right, you should be getting a trickle, just a trickle, of water into one or both of the taller standpipes. The main, valved, standpipes will be running at full siphon, and be completely noiseless. It took me some tweaking for the first month or so, a bit more, a bit less, until things got stable. I haven't touched the gate valve in months.

05/16/2016, 01:08 PM	#6
tthouston Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 128

05/16/2016, 07:33 PM	#7
gmdcdvm Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 170	Thanks for the help. I need to clear some confusion. Essentially the tank has one overflow and two bulkheads. Total of two holes. In looking at the set up there is no room for additional holes to be drilled ok the bottom. But I could potentially drill one on the vertical wall near the bottom of the overflow to add another. What do you think?

05/17/2016, 05:38 PM	#9
gmdcdvm Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 170	Thanks for the info guys. Sorry about the confusion. Yes, one overflow with just two holes total.

05/18/2016, 02:23 PM	#12
gmdcdvm Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 170	Thanks for the help everyone. Looks like with only two holes my plan is a herbie unless I drill a third hole.