electricity in tank?!!!

[wes_8_u]

THis may seem like a really strange question...

but today while i was performing maintenance in my tank and while i had one hand in the water my brother touched my other hand (which was out of the water), and their was this tingling feeling as if their were small currents passsing from my hand to his.

When i take my hand out the water, this no longer occurs. Everyone in my household verified that this happens to them also.

I'm not sure if this is normal... or if their is faulty electrical equipment or what. The fish seem fine, and i'm not sure how long this has happened for but i only just noticed it.

Please help me... I or the fishies don't want to die !! HAHA

thankyou... any help would be appreciated.

[RONCGIZMO]

that's not good...lol Fist thing to do is make sure all plugs with a ground have a ground. if all that is good unplug everything one by one until it stops and remove it from your setup. aslo do make sure you have a GFIC in the wall if not go to home depot and buy one it's not worth a fire for 12 bucks or so.

Ron

[wes_8_u]

Umm, well i have a powerhead and a nanostream and a heater in the tank. If i unplug all of them there doesn't seem to give off that feeling. But if i plug in any one of them exclusively it does it again... they are all in the same powerboard... i'm yet to plug them into another one to see if it'll make a difference.

SO yuou guys don't think this is normal?? how come my fish seem ok? (I think)

[ChrisB]

I don't know if it is "normal" or not, but I can tell you that my tank ALWAYS has that feeling unless I unplug all maxi-jets. I have 4 MJ 1200s in my sump and they all apparently leak electricity, as well as all WON titanium heaters. I quit using the WONs and if I notice any problem with any of the animal life I will discontinue the MJs as well.

I haven't noticed any ill effects.

My personal belief is that many others would also experience this tingle provided:
They have their tank on an exposed concrete floor.
They are barefooted.
They otherwise ground themselves and put their hand in the tank.

In fact, I was in a LFS and their back room is concrete. Out of curiosity I slipped one of my shoes off and put my fingers in the closest tank. My fingers had the exact same tingle. I asked the owner about grounding probes and he said they use them on all their tanks.

JMO

[AusWog]

yea as an electrician u are basicly going through leakage which is a supply of electricity and touching ground, there for your body is acting as a resisitor.just to keep in perspective how bad this is, low voltage is the killer not high voltage.it takes 4ma (milli amperes) to throw ur heart out of beat.get ur equiptment checked out...unplug 1 device at a time till this occurance doesnt happen and eliminate it like that.if its under warrenty get a new one if not replace it.the fish wont have an effect due to them not touching ground there for no load is put through the fish. this leak of electricity may throw other things out of wack as a warning aswell...

[Young Frankenstein]

I agree with AusWog, by the way welcome Wog, nice to see another fellow electrician in this forum. I would also suggest installing a grounding probe.

[wes_8_u]

hrrmm...
but i tried unpluging them each individually.

They all seem to contribute to the tingly feeling. (I tried each of them individually) Basically anything that is powered in the tank does it. Which tells me that it's either all of them are faulty all it's due to something else? So is it safe for me to put my hand in the tank. My tank is resting on a cabinet on top of wooden varnish floor

Also I don't get any weird sensations unless i touch someone else.

What is a grounding probe? WHat will this do? and how do i get it installed?

Thanks for all your help guys.. I'm really freakin out about it

[wes_8_u]

any other suggestions? so i'm guessing not everyone else's tank does this....

so basically... i HAVE�@to do something about it ASAP?

[Sk8r]

Stray current is not good for your fish or corals, either. A grounding probe may be available at your lfs. Mine sells them. You might check Foster/Smith online, or one of the more aquarium-specific online stores. It's a must-do. No, not everybody's tank does this. Mine doesn't, nor do the mixing tanks where I use maxijets. Something's wrong. Heaters are the usual culprit, but mjs may be it in this case.

[Icefire]

Grounding probe aren't that great, they allow current to flow in the tank while having stray voltage (no path to ground) will be fine for fish (think bird on HV line).

I'm not with Auswog, high voltage kill you faster than low, it's Ohms law, more voltage in a giving resistance = more current. Yes on 120v you stick vs getting pushed on 600v but we all have 120v in tank exept Au/Eu.

I would verify how much voltage there is in the water with a multimeter first. 12v isn't going to kill you, but 60v might.

Grounding probe are made to be used with GFI outlet, because you'll need a few volts of leaking to trip a regular 15A breaker.

[Young Frankenstein]

Originally posted by Icefire
Grounding probe aren't that great, they allow current to flow in the tank while having stray voltage (no path to ground) will be fine for fish (think bird on HV line).

I'm not with Auswog, high voltage kill you faster than low, it's Ohms law, more voltage in a giving resistance = more current. Yes on 120v you stick vs getting pushed on 600v but we all have 120v in tank exept Au/Eu.

I would verify how much voltage there is in the water with a multimeter first. 12v isn't going to kill you, but 60v might.

Grounding probe are made to be used with GFI outlet, because you'll need a few volts of leaking to trip a regular 15A breaker.

Electricity is not a hobby gentleman, it can either start a fire or kill you, never mind the fish or corals. 1) You have to install a grounding probe to make sure your GFI trips under voltage leakage conditions. A GFI is a must !!!!! Our work and codes are made so that under voltage leaking to a floor, wall, pond, fish tang etc. is detected by either a breaker or GFI and that devise trips. Thats the reason for running ground cables, wires in metal conduits etc. the outside of a conduit is grounded, or the equipment therefore when a wire is leaking voltage the protection device trips. Remember some people are very sensitive to voltage, kids, people with pace makers, older folks, people that had suffered a heart attack etc. they are at a greater risk than others. So please when it comes to electricity careful with your advice to others. I am a licensed electrician and in the trade for 25 years, I cant count the houses that i was in that needed repairs due to fires, and worst of all the insurance company's may give you problems if you have a fire and you are not using a GFI, we all know they are looking for a way out, and reasons not to pay if theres a disaster. Take it from me invest in a $15.00 GFI and a $10 grounding probe

[kevin2000]

MMM

Interesting topic. I always thought the std "stray voltage" in our tanks was suppose to very minute and often caused by the twirling magnets in our powerheads. Not sure about the concept of stray 120v floating around in our tanks .. I would think that if you that kind of voltage floating around in your tank it would trip a GFI. Perhaps one of our eletrician guru's would comment.

[Young Frankenstein]

And to simplify things..... The birds on a power line don't have a path to a ground thats why they don't get shocked, your fish without a grounding probe may not have a path to ground either. But you !!! inserting your hand in the fish tang sometimes can have a good path to ground, either by touching a grounded fixture with your other hand, or from a tiled floor being barefooted etc. and bzzzzzzzzzzzzz zapadadoooooooooooo you are gone see stars bzzzzzzzzzzz boooooom

[kevin2000]

If you have your hand in the tank when you have a major eletrical problem I doubt a grounding probe is going to save your bacon. Chances are your going to make a great "ground" yourself and the only thing thats going to save your arse is a GFI.

[coral killer]

Hey, New to the forum. I had to get in on this. I'm a electrician (27yr) Volt is what kills! 120 volt AC (alternating current) must have a ground or neutral (same thing) to work. A way to go back home you can say. Power looks for the easies way to go back to ground and that can be you. Any voltage in a tank is not good. Would you buy a house under high voltage power lines? You can touch a hot wire and not get shock but as soon you touch a ground it has a way back home.
So if you have voltage in a tank you must likely wouldn't feel it unless you are grounded. You can have small amount of voltage in a tank and not feel it (touch a 6 volt battery) but put 6 volt in your tank and see what it does. You do not want voltage in your tank. Find the problem and fix it. GFCI will help save your life and fish but not fix the problem. Pump and power heads should not leak voltage. And salt water doesn't up the power like some believe. Just more surface area of contact that feel more. sorry not good at typing

[Seehag]

I'm sorry to add to this, but a gfci outlet does not need a ground probe in your tank to operate, it simply measures the amperage flowing out the hot and compares it to the amperage flowing back on the neutral. If this is different it opens the circuit. The amperage could go back through you to the ground(floor, or other equipment in the tank) and kill you. It could also be leaking back througha ground in the equipment, either way when a gfci see's any fluctuation and I can't remeber the exact amount but it is very low, it will open.

As far as current in your tank which is what you are describing that could get there many way's and you should fix it. One place that I found some was a d.c. circuit for the top off had a wire touching the water and it went in there.


Art

[Seehag]

Oh and by the way regular breaker's don't care how much of a ground you have they only look for over current so if your breaker is set for 20 amps it will not trip till it see's 20 amp's or more (most of the time). By the time you reach 20 amp's if you are the ground well time's up.


Art

[New Reefer]

Agreed, mains voltage is dangerous, and should be avoided. Our electrician friends contributing to this thread could perhaps be missing the obvious, however - our lights and pumps can induce a charge electromagnetically, without actually "shorting". This would work the same as an isolation transformer, and I doubt if this "static" could generate enough current to be lethal (think of the electric "shock" when stroking a cat on a synthetic carpet...).

[Young Frankenstein]

Originally posted by Seehag
I'm sorry to add to this, but a gfci outlet does not need a ground probe in your tank to operate, it simply measures the amperage flowing out the hot and compares it to the amperage flowing back on the neutral. If this is different it opens the circuit. The amperage could go back through you to the ground(floor, or other equipment in the tank) and kill you. It could also be leaking back througha ground in the equipment, either way when a gfci see's any fluctuation and I can't remeber the exact amount but it is very low, it will open.

As far as current in your tank which is what you are describing that could get there many way's and you should fix it. One place that I found some was a d.c. circuit for the top off had a wire touching the water and it went in there.


Art

I agree thats how a GFI works, but if theres no grounding probe there is not going to be a difference in the neutral load. Thats why you need the grounding probe, otherwise the GFI will not trip.

[Seehag]

I believe that stray current is what the groundign probe disipates.

Art

[Seehag]

Agios go try it without a ground it will work. If you hook up a gfci with no ground and you take your hot to ground it will trip. All the gfci see's is x amount of current on the hot and >x on the neutral and trip. As long as the two remain equal it will not trip, the gfci does not care where the current is going. If you wire it to code it has to have a ground but it will work without one.


Art

[Young Frankenstein]

Leave electricity to the experts like coral killer and myself pleaseeeee...........cheeeeeeeeee everyone with a degree is an electrician.

[Young Frankenstein]

And let me tell ya, you need to download allot of miller and coronas to get where we are OK ?

[kevin2000]

Originally posted by 0 Agios
I agree thats how a GFI works, but if theres no grounding probe there is not going to be a difference in the neutral load. Thats why you need the grounding probe, otherwise the GFI will not trip.

I disagree ... GFI's have saved my bacon many times over the yrs without a ground probe.

Ground probes were placed into tanks to capture electromagnetically induced stray voltage ... not as a safety device for aquarist.

[Seehag]

Agios,

Maybe you are talking about the stray current not tripping the gfci? If the current is derived current like magnetic or static, then that will not trip the gfci because it won't see a out of balance situation. If you put a groundign probe in the tank and plug it into the gfci it will take the random current and drain it to the ground on the gfci. If that is the case it wouldn't trip the gfci becuase the current is being created in the tank not shorted to the tank. 2 different scenarions, wouldn't you agree?

Art