need sump advice

gig · 07/17/2007, 10:00 AM

I currently am running a 37G fuge into a 30G sump, the fuge outputs into 2 filter socks before hitting the Mag24 pump to the skimmer and the intake for the Sequence Dart back to the tank.

I have been contemplating removing the filter socks for a coupel of reasons:

1) as the socks get dirty (over the course of a week), they tend to fill up to the top and drop the waterline to an artificial level. If I ever go with a auto topoff system, this may cause problems.
2) have the dirtier water get to the mag24 to the skimmer
3) avoid the weekly changing of socks
4) allow more nutrient export from the fuge to the display

Downsides

1) MICROBUBBLES! the socks act as an diffuser and pretty much allow zero microbubbles into the display
2) dirtier tank - the socks do keep alot of crap from going back into the display, so reduces maint.

So here is a diagram of the current setup

So the question is, if I go with adding some baffles in the sump, right after the fuge and skimmer outputs on the right, how do I configure these regarding the current water level and to avoid microbubbles?

Thanks!

theatrus · 07/17/2007, 10:06 AM

I'd take a look at Melev's plans for baffle design at www.melevsreef.com

I agree filter socks are a pain to clean all the time.

Brisc0 · 07/17/2007, 10:27 AM

I have always build my sumps based off Melevs plans and they works like a champ. However, my new sump is a 100g stock tank with uneven edges so I could not figure out a way to baffle it. Instead I came up with a solution that works very well.

In my sump I have place a tall rubbermaid tub. (needs to be a tall one) Within that tub I placed all of my drain from the display as well as my skimmer. Before inserting the tub I figured out where I wanted the waterline to be in the sump and about 2 inches below that I cut a "duct" into the tub in the center of the longest side facing the glass furthest away from the return pump. The duct is only cut on the sides and at the top and the folded outward to create an upward flow out of the tub to the waters surface.

Basically what this does is contain bubbles in the tub and then force them to disperse at the waters surface, and act as a baffle that keeps the waterflow on the opposite side of the tub lower to not allow escaped bubbles to get plunged down into the column and spit out into my tank.

I could have likely described this a lot better but it works almost as good as melevs design.

gig · 07/17/2007, 11:01 AM

that sounds interesting and would require me to do it without shutting down the main pump for hours...hmmm

got any pics Brisc0?

Brisc0 · 07/17/2007, 01:22 PM

Okay, I took a photo, the last one before the battery on the camera died. I apologize for the mess but im doing some reconstruction right now and so it kinda is what it is.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...p?photo=219519

Remember, this is not a 100% bubble free setup, however it will reduce them to a point that all but the most insanely picky will approve of. It also costs about 5 bucks to make and can be put in without bringing the system down in most cases. The only trick is finding a suitable container. In this case I had to build a skimmer stand to put inside the tub but it worked fine.

When installing this you have to be prepared for the tub to want to float. Until its got enough water in it the thing is like a barrel full of air, so I advise a couple of small holes in the base of the tub to get it to go down, a piece or two of rock may be necessary to anchor it, but nothing crazy. The other nice thing about this design is that I can chuck carbon bags in the tub and have a high flow area for my kalk/CA reactor to dispense in. This could be modified a lot of ways to work more efficiently (i.e. baffling the tub, side baffles between the tub and sump wall, etc.) however I just recently added this and so I haven't had much time to try and improve upon it.

Best of luck!

pgordemer · 07/17/2007, 01:40 PM

One of the ways I solved this was to still use SOCKS, but move up to Nylon Mesh socks at 200 Microns. It staill gets the nasty stuff while controlling bubbles and the Nylon tends not to clump the material so lasts longer and it very easy to clean.

Check www.filterbag.com

gig · 07/17/2007, 02:13 PM

Brisc0...that's pretty sweet. My skimmer is plumbed outside the sump, but I think I can make your idea work with a small trashcan, like the kind used for kitchens, maybe better, the kind you have under your desk at work.

I'll give it a shot.

gordemer:

You mean actual tube socks? LOL! yeah, I guess it would work too!

07/17/2007, 10:00 AM	#1
gig Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hawthorn Woods, IL Posts: 3,003	need sump advice I currently am running a 37G fuge into a 30G sump, the fuge outputs into 2 filter socks before hitting the Mag24 pump to the skimmer and the intake for the Sequence Dart back to the tank. I have been contemplating removing the filter socks for a coupel of reasons: 1) as the socks get dirty (over the course of a week), they tend to fill up to the top and drop the waterline to an artificial level. If I ever go with a auto topoff system, this may cause problems. 2) have the dirtier water get to the mag24 to the skimmer 3) avoid the weekly changing of socks 4) allow more nutrient export from the fuge to the display Downsides 1) MICROBUBBLES! the socks act as an diffuser and pretty much allow zero microbubbles into the display 2) dirtier tank - the socks do keep alot of crap from going back into the display, so reduces maint. So here is a diagram of the current setup So the question is, if I go with adding some baffles in the sump, right after the fuge and skimmer outputs on the right, how do I configure these regarding the current water level and to avoid microbubbles? Thanks! __________________ It's ILLIE!!!!!!!!!!! Current Tank Info: Current Tank Info: 180G RR in wall mixed reef moving toward SPS dominated (247 gal total system), 300lbs+ LR, VHO/T5 mix of lighting, X3 MP40w ES.

07/17/2007, 10:06 AM	#2
theatrus 100-mile-commuter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: almost nevada Posts: 4,721	I'd take a look at Melev's plans for baffle design at www.melevsreef.com I agree filter socks are a pain to clean all the time. __________________ Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics

07/17/2007, 10:27 AM	#3
Brisc0 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 279	I have always build my sumps based off Melevs plans and they works like a champ. However, my new sump is a 100g stock tank with uneven edges so I could not figure out a way to baffle it. Instead I came up with a solution that works very well. In my sump I have place a tall rubbermaid tub. (needs to be a tall one) Within that tub I placed all of my drain from the display as well as my skimmer. Before inserting the tub I figured out where I wanted the waterline to be in the sump and about 2 inches below that I cut a "duct" into the tub in the center of the longest side facing the glass furthest away from the return pump. The duct is only cut on the sides and at the top and the folded outward to create an upward flow out of the tub to the waters surface. Basically what this does is contain bubbles in the tub and then force them to disperse at the waters surface, and act as a baffle that keeps the waterflow on the opposite side of the tub lower to not allow escaped bubbles to get plunged down into the column and spit out into my tank. I could have likely described this a lot better but it works almost as good as melevs design. __________________ I'll drink to your leg... @bushwilliams on Twitter My Full Reef Aquaria Blog @ http://reef.bushwilliams.com Current Tank Info: 40G Nuvo Fusion Started 8/2014

07/17/2007, 11:01 AM	#4
gig Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hawthorn Woods, IL Posts: 3,003	that sounds interesting and would require me to do it without shutting down the main pump for hours...hmmm got any pics Brisc0? __________________ It's ILLIE!!!!!!!!!!! Current Tank Info: Current Tank Info: 180G RR in wall mixed reef moving toward SPS dominated (247 gal total system), 300lbs+ LR, VHO/T5 mix of lighting, X3 MP40w ES.

07/17/2007, 01:22 PM	#5
Brisc0 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 279	Okay, I took a photo, the last one before the battery on the camera died. I apologize for the mess but im doing some reconstruction right now and so it kinda is what it is. http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...p?photo=219519 Remember, this is not a 100% bubble free setup, however it will reduce them to a point that all but the most insanely picky will approve of. It also costs about 5 bucks to make and can be put in without bringing the system down in most cases. The only trick is finding a suitable container. In this case I had to build a skimmer stand to put inside the tub but it worked fine. When installing this you have to be prepared for the tub to want to float. Until its got enough water in it the thing is like a barrel full of air, so I advise a couple of small holes in the base of the tub to get it to go down, a piece or two of rock may be necessary to anchor it, but nothing crazy. The other nice thing about this design is that I can chuck carbon bags in the tub and have a high flow area for my kalk/CA reactor to dispense in. This could be modified a lot of ways to work more efficiently (i.e. baffling the tub, side baffles between the tub and sump wall, etc.) however I just recently added this and so I haven't had much time to try and improve upon it. Best of luck! __________________ I'll drink to your leg... @bushwilliams on Twitter My Full Reef Aquaria Blog @ http://reef.bushwilliams.com Current Tank Info: 40G Nuvo Fusion Started 8/2014 Last edited by Brisc0; 07/17/2007 at 01:30 PM.

07/17/2007, 01:40 PM	#6
pgordemer Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paulsboro, NJ Posts: 123	One of the ways I solved this was to still use SOCKS, but move up to Nylon Mesh socks at 200 Microns. It staill gets the nasty stuff while controlling bubbles and the Nylon tends not to clump the material so lasts longer and it very easy to clean. Check www.filterbag.com __________________ Phil ---> If you're not scared, you're not paying attention <--- Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon , RR, 40 gallon sump, 18w UV, 8x54 T5 Lighting,AC jr controlled, mostly LPS Last edited by pgordemer; 07/17/2007 at 01:47 PM.

07/17/2007, 02:13 PM	#7
gig Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hawthorn Woods, IL Posts: 3,003	Brisc0...that's pretty sweet. My skimmer is plumbed outside the sump, but I think I can make your idea work with a small trashcan, like the kind used for kitchens, maybe better, the kind you have under your desk at work. I'll give it a shot. gordemer: You mean actual tube socks? LOL! yeah, I guess it would work too! __________________ It's ILLIE!!!!!!!!!!! Current Tank Info: Current Tank Info: 180G RR in wall mixed reef moving toward SPS dominated (247 gal total system), 300lbs+ LR, VHO/T5 mix of lighting, X3 MP40w ES.