sump in basement question

KD9RG · 12/15/2007, 09:00 PM

I just finished plumbing in a 40 gal sump in my basement for my 90 gallon show tank. I am having a few problems. First one is what is the best way to start this system? Should I start the overflow first then the pump? At one point today I had the overflow, do exactly that...over flow on the floor. Not sure that caused that. For some reason it filled up, and the drain pipe got filled up too. Very confusing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Mike/KD9RG

sjm817 · 12/15/2007, 09:34 PM

What kind of overflow? Please provide some more details on the setup.

mg426 · 12/15/2007, 09:42 PM

I agree.

KD9RG · 12/16/2007, 06:06 AM

It is a QuietFlow 600. You can see it onthis link. Running 1" pipes for both return and supply.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=009

KD9RG · 12/16/2007, 06:16 AM

I will add that last night I was reading the setup directions on the overflow and I did not have the black tube going down the 1" pipe as suggested.

Racing1 · 12/16/2007, 06:49 AM

Make sure you have the u-tube to the overflow in the right way. If you look at it one side is a little longer than the other. You want the longer side on the inside of the box in the tank. Start the siphon fist and then start the return pump. Make sure you are not pumping more than the overflow can handle. Do you have a ball valve on the return side so you can slow down the flow if needed? Also, what are you using for a return pump?

woodycb · 12/16/2007, 07:13 AM

actually I have that same overflow. The longer side of the u tube has to go in the chamber outside the tank. Fill both chambers with water, put the little black hose in the u tube up to the bend. make sure both ends of the u tube are in the water, suck on the black hose (LOL) to get the air out of the tube, keeping both ends of the tube in the water. Pull the black tube out of the u tube and make sure the u tube still has water in it. As long as the u tube still has water in it you will not lose siphon, when you start your return pump it will fill the tank and the overflow will start flowing. If you have a powerful pump make sure you slow the flow down at first with a valve so you do not pump more water into the tank then what the overflow can handle. As long as you do not lose siphon in the u tube everything should work. They recommend that you put the black hose down the drain line to help with suction noise. I found the lower you can get it in drain the more it helps. Basically what Racing1 said but with a few more details.

KD9RG · 12/16/2007, 01:55 PM

I am really struggling with this thing and don't feel like I can walk away from it. The stand pipe starts gurgling and then the box fills up and starts to overflow untill the bubbling quits. What am I missing? I am about ready to build a durso stand pipe and try it.

woodycb · 12/16/2007, 03:43 PM

Is the water flowing through the u tube ok. Are there any air bubble in the bend of u tube. D you have a valve on your drain pipe to your basement.

KD9RG · 12/16/2007, 04:15 PM

No air in the U tube, yes there are valves at the tank and in the basement on both return and supply lines. Totallly puzzled on this. I am going to get the parts to build a Durso standpipe if I can't get this figured out. At this point my opinion of the Quietflow
overflow is not real good. Looking at building my own overflow and using 1" pipe with a 1.25" durso stand pipe. Thanks for all your help.

woodycb · 12/16/2007, 05:05 PM

you have me puzzled, mine works great. I dont understand what you have going on. The dursos are only good for RR tanks with built in overflows. Is the water dumping into your sump from your overflow in the basement. Is your tank overflowing or is the chamber on the outside of the tank overflowing. If the outside chamber is overflowing then you have a blockage somewhere or your valves are turned off not letting flow in to the sump.

KD9RG · 12/16/2007, 07:08 PM

I don't get it either. I am not sure I agree that the durso won't work. Seems to me the design would work on an outboard overflow too. I am starting to think that the 1" pipe needs to be 1.25" . That will be a pain if I have to rerun all this pipe. The only thing I can think of is that when I go through the floor and across the floor joist I have to go up 8-10" then across the basement 15ft, through a wall, 90 to the left and another straight run of 20', then down the wall to the sump. My gut tells me that 8-10" rise to get up between the floor joist is the problem. It would be a pain but I could drill through the 2 or 3 joist and that would keep the run level. I bet that is where the problem is located.

woodycb · 12/16/2007, 08:45 PM

That seems like a really long run. You probably should have used at least 1.5" pipe. The 8-10" rise probably is not helping but there should be enough head pressure behind it. That rise would act as a trap. You could try to eliminate that and see what happens. The 15' and the 20' runs are not running slightly up hill are they? If so, that will back you up also. I am curious, what you are using for a return pump, that seems like a long run to get the water back to the tank.

racksteris · 12/16/2007, 09:23 PM

wow, that does seem like a long way to go..

LoyalConvict · 12/16/2007, 09:38 PM

I am also very curious in what pump you have

KD9RG · 12/17/2007, 05:56 AM

Running a PCX-40 (Iwaki 55RLT) and it has plenty of power. I hvae it choked back by about half. I do have it plumbed such that any back pressure is returned to the sump. FYI, I bought 100ft of PVC and have about 15 left. Pump is pushing the water about 10-11ft. I was surprised that I have this much flow coming from the pump. I am planning on redoing the plumbing ini the crawl tonight to get that rise out of it. Thanks agn for all your help and suggestions.

asm481 · 12/17/2007, 07:05 AM

I would up the drain size to at least 1.5. It is a long run to get clogged up. Do what you can to eliminate the up portion of the drain. Any stray nori or clump of HA will stop there and build a clog. I have my basement drains in all 1.5 and no problem with a ton of flow.

KD9RG · 12/17/2007, 04:54 PM

FIXED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was 10-12" rise I have in the crawl space, cut it out, drilled through 4 of the joist and it works great! Pump is still too big, but that is an issue I'll take care of later. Thanks again for all the help on this. Mike/KD9RG.........

now off to the DIY skimmer project.

12/15/2007, 09:00 PM	#1
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	sump in basement question I just finished plumbing in a 40 gal sump in my basement for my 90 gallon show tank. I am having a few problems. First one is what is the best way to start this system? Should I start the overflow first then the pump? At one point today I had the overflow, do exactly that...over flow on the floor. Not sure that caused that. For some reason it filled up, and the drain pipe got filled up too. Very confusing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Mike/KD9RG

12/15/2007, 09:34 PM	#2
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	What kind of overflow? Please provide some more details on the setup. __________________ - Scott

12/15/2007, 09:42 PM	#3
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	I agree. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

12/16/2007, 07:13 AM	#7
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	actually I have that same overflow. The longer side of the u tube has to go in the chamber outside the tank. Fill both chambers with water, put the little black hose in the u tube up to the bend. make sure both ends of the u tube are in the water, suck on the black hose (LOL) to get the air out of the tube, keeping both ends of the tube in the water. Pull the black tube out of the u tube and make sure the u tube still has water in it. As long as the u tube still has water in it you will not lose siphon, when you start your return pump it will fill the tank and the overflow will start flowing. If you have a powerful pump make sure you slow the flow down at first with a valve so you do not pump more water into the tank then what the overflow can handle. As long as you do not lose siphon in the u tube everything should work. They recommend that you put the black hose down the drain line to help with suction noise. I found the lower you can get it in drain the more it helps. Basically what Racing1 said but with a few more details. __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

12/16/2007, 03:43 PM	#9
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	Is the water flowing through the u tube ok. Are there any air bubble in the bend of u tube. D you have a valve on your drain pipe to your basement. __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

12/16/2007, 06:06 AM	#4
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	It is a QuietFlow 600. You can see it onthis link. Running 1" pipes for both return and supply. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=009

12/16/2007, 06:16 AM	#5
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	I will add that last night I was reading the setup directions on the overflow and I did not have the black tube going down the 1" pipe as suggested.

12/16/2007, 06:49 AM	#6
Racing1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 740	Make sure you have the u-tube to the overflow in the right way. If you look at it one side is a little longer than the other. You want the longer side on the inside of the box in the tank. Start the siphon fist and then start the return pump. Make sure you are not pumping more than the overflow can handle. Do you have a ball valve on the return side so you can slow down the flow if needed? Also, what are you using for a return pump?

12/16/2007, 01:55 PM	#8
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	I am really struggling with this thing and don't feel like I can walk away from it. The stand pipe starts gurgling and then the box fills up and starts to overflow untill the bubbling quits. What am I missing? I am about ready to build a durso stand pipe and try it.

12/16/2007, 04:15 PM	#10
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	No air in the U tube, yes there are valves at the tank and in the basement on both return and supply lines. Totallly puzzled on this. I am going to get the parts to build a Durso standpipe if I can't get this figured out. At this point my opinion of the Quietflow overflow is not real good. Looking at building my own overflow and using 1" pipe with a 1.25" durso stand pipe. Thanks for all your help.

12/16/2007, 05:05 PM	#11
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	you have me puzzled, mine works great. I dont understand what you have going on. The dursos are only good for RR tanks with built in overflows. Is the water dumping into your sump from your overflow in the basement. Is your tank overflowing or is the chamber on the outside of the tank overflowing. If the outside chamber is overflowing then you have a blockage somewhere or your valves are turned off not letting flow in to the sump. __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

12/16/2007, 07:08 PM	#12
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	I don't get it either. I am not sure I agree that the durso won't work. Seems to me the design would work on an outboard overflow too. I am starting to think that the 1" pipe needs to be 1.25" . That will be a pain if I have to rerun all this pipe. The only thing I can think of is that when I go through the floor and across the floor joist I have to go up 8-10" then across the basement 15ft, through a wall, 90 to the left and another straight run of 20', then down the wall to the sump. My gut tells me that 8-10" rise to get up between the floor joist is the problem. It would be a pain but I could drill through the 2 or 3 joist and that would keep the run level. I bet that is where the problem is located.

12/16/2007, 08:45 PM	#13
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	That seems like a really long run. You probably should have used at least 1.5" pipe. The 8-10" rise probably is not helping but there should be enough head pressure behind it. That rise would act as a trap. You could try to eliminate that and see what happens. The 15' and the 20' runs are not running slightly up hill are they? If so, that will back you up also. I am curious, what you are using for a return pump, that seems like a long run to get the water back to the tank. __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

12/16/2007, 09:23 PM	#14
racksteris Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 379	wow, that does seem like a long way to go..

12/16/2007, 09:38 PM	#15
LoyalConvict Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 468	I am also very curious in what pump you have __________________ Contemplating sushifried I Have - Ichthyophobia, Hydrophobia, Hyalophobia, and Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia Current Tank Info: 90 Reef, 55 fuge - 75 FOWLR 30 fuge

12/17/2007, 05:56 AM	#16
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	Running a PCX-40 (Iwaki 55RLT) and it has plenty of power. I hvae it choked back by about half. I do have it plumbed such that any back pressure is returned to the sump. FYI, I bought 100ft of PVC and have about 15 left. Pump is pushing the water about 10-11ft. I was surprised that I have this much flow coming from the pump. I am planning on redoing the plumbing ini the crawl tonight to get that rise out of it. Thanks agn for all your help and suggestions.

12/17/2007, 07:05 AM	#17
asm481 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kenosha Wisconsin Posts: 593	I would up the drain size to at least 1.5. It is a long run to get clogged up. Do what you can to eliminate the up portion of the drain. Any stray nori or clump of HA will stop there and build a clog. I have my basement drains in all 1.5 and no problem with a ton of flow.

12/17/2007, 04:54 PM	#18
KD9RG Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 68	FIXED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was 10-12" rise I have in the crawl space, cut it out, drilled through 4 of the joist and it works great! Pump is still too big, but that is an issue I'll take care of later. Thanks again for all the help on this. Mike/KD9RG......... now off to the DIY skimmer project.