Barebottom - Page 2

hulley · 03/25/2008, 04:39 PM

I've been BB for several years now. It all started after a DSB crash. I tried BB thinking I could always add sand if I didnt like it, well, I never did! Guess what? I upgraded from the 90g to a 180g and have never enjoyed the hobby more. Dont let people fool you, its not necessarily easier, its just different. You have to do things on a different level. Flow and rock placement if "Very" important, you really need a powerful skimmer. The whole idea is to export nutrients from the system quickly (flow=skimmer), you can have no dead spots in the display. I ended up removing alot of rock in my 180g and I'm down to 120lbs and I now have no dead spots and fill up my skimmer cup every other day. I'm currently trying to decide on a bigger skimmer! I'm far from an expert but this is what I've learned from my own experience and others as well.

mattsilvester · 03/26/2008, 03:07 AM

Any pics Hulley? Sounds nice.......

A few posts back, someone mentioned the buffer capacity of sand..... someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the sand will not start to "disolve" until the pH drops well below 8.0 ...... at which point your pH is too low anyway...... we are aiming to keep it above 8.0, so geneally speaking, it does not do alot for buffering anyway......

Furthermore - and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason that the sand in a DSB disolves and needs replenishing over time is because of the conditions within the bed.... i.e. low oxygen and heavy amount of life eating and defecating results in localised low pH ..... which of course means that calcium carbonate etc. gets released into the water column, which is a positive thing..... but how many tanks with DSB's don;t need calcium repalcement stratergies? Not many - hence my thoughts on that would be the calcium etc. it "produces" versus the replacement of sand and the localised effect of pH within teh bed is pretty much on a cost neutral basis......

In short, when you pit the pro's and con's i.e. the net effect on the water coloumn (in terms of pH etc.) is negligible........ providing yuo have a well maintained system.......

On the otherhand, if you don't have a refugium on reverse lighting to compliment a DSB on a DSB system, then I think the bioload of teh DSB would result in bigger pH swings that a BB system with no refugium...... i.e. as a stand-alone system, I think that a BB is inherently more stable...... given equal maintenance to both systems......

Please note - all of teh above is me just rambling, thinking out loud, based I what I have learned and read thus far..... how accurate it is, is questionable - but it makes sense and is logical to me

magrath · 03/26/2008, 04:43 AM

Here are some pics of my BB tank, sorry my camera stinks.

Dustin2 · 03/26/2008, 04:57 AM

somebody pointed out to me that in dsb tanks gasses get trapped in the sand and when you mix it or a fish does it sky rockets some lvels and fish die quick before you can do anything. And them he basically said there are no risked with bb ssb tanks. And having a dsb just isn't worth the risks

magrath · 03/26/2008, 05:15 AM

Trying to post the pics again.

IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244001&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG
IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244003&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG
IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244002&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG

magrath · 03/26/2008, 05:18 AM

magrath · 03/26/2008, 05:23 AM

Sorry about all the posts, I finally figured it out.

downhillbiker · 03/26/2008, 01:07 PM

nice some of these look really good. and there are benifits both ways. i will stick with sand and just quarantine.

hulley · 03/26/2008, 03:32 PM

I'll post some pics in a little bit.

03/26/2008, 03:07 AM	#27
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	Any pics Hulley? Sounds nice....... A few posts back, someone mentioned the buffer capacity of sand..... someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the sand will not start to "disolve" until the pH drops well below 8.0 ...... at which point your pH is too low anyway...... we are aiming to keep it above 8.0, so geneally speaking, it does not do alot for buffering anyway...... Furthermore - and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason that the sand in a DSB disolves and needs replenishing over time is because of the conditions within the bed.... i.e. low oxygen and heavy amount of life eating and defecating results in localised low pH ..... which of course means that calcium carbonate etc. gets released into the water column, which is a positive thing..... but how many tanks with DSB's don;t need calcium repalcement stratergies? Not many - hence my thoughts on that would be the calcium etc. it "produces" versus the replacement of sand and the localised effect of pH within teh bed is pretty much on a cost neutral basis...... In short, when you pit the pro's and con's i.e. the net effect on the water coloumn (in terms of pH etc.) is negligible........ providing yuo have a well maintained system....... On the otherhand, if you don't have a refugium on reverse lighting to compliment a DSB on a DSB system, then I think the bioload of teh DSB would result in bigger pH swings that a BB system with no refugium...... i.e. as a stand-alone system, I think that a BB is inherently more stable...... given equal maintenance to both systems...... Please note - all of teh above is me just rambling, thinking out loud, based I what I have learned and read thus far..... how accurate it is, is questionable - but it makes sense and is logical to me __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

03/26/2008, 04:57 AM	#29
Dustin2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: powell ohio Posts: 654	somebody pointed out to me that in dsb tanks gasses get trapped in the sand and when you mix it or a fish does it sky rockets some lvels and fish die quick before you can do anything. And them he basically said there are no risked with bb ssb tanks. And having a dsb just isn't worth the risks __________________ Thanks Dustin Marker Current Tank Info: 180 gallon mixed mostly sps and lps

03/26/2008, 01:07 PM	#33
downhillbiker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 2,831	nice some of these look really good. and there are benifits both ways. i will stick with sand and just quarantine. __________________ The friendliest GIANT you'll ever meet. Current Tank Info: 200g Marineland Deep Dimension (Lumenmax Reflectors/Dual PFO 400w/Radium 20K) and 2xFrag Tanks (One TEK T5 fixture and one MH, Galaxy/Phoenix) on same system w/100g sump w/6"x100g DSB, AquaC EV-1000 Skimmer, Reeflo Barracuda return pump

03/25/2008, 04:39 PM	#26
hulley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In front of my computor. Posts: 592	I've been BB for several years now. It all started after a DSB crash. I tried BB thinking I could always add sand if I didnt like it, well, I never did! Guess what? I upgraded from the 90g to a 180g and have never enjoyed the hobby more. Dont let people fool you, its not necessarily easier, its just different. You have to do things on a different level. Flow and rock placement if "Very" important, you really need a powerful skimmer. The whole idea is to export nutrients from the system quickly (flow=skimmer), you can have no dead spots in the display. I ended up removing alot of rock in my 180g and I'm down to 120lbs and I now have no dead spots and fill up my skimmer cup every other day. I'm currently trying to decide on a bigger skimmer! I'm far from an expert but this is what I've learned from my own experience and others as well.

03/26/2008, 04:43 AM	#28
magrath Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 336	Here are some pics of my BB tank, sorry my camera stinks.

03/26/2008, 05:15 AM	#30
magrath Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 336	Trying to post the pics again. IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244001&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244003&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG IMGhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=244002&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500/IMG

03/26/2008, 05:18 AM	#31
magrath Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 336

03/26/2008, 05:23 AM	#32
magrath Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 336	Sorry about all the posts, I finally figured it out.

03/26/2008, 03:32 PM	#34
hulley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In front of my computor. Posts: 592	I'll post some pics in a little bit.