Sump bio balls vs small live rocks

heller792 · 05/28/2008, 11:54 PM

Ok guys my new tank is comming today and its my first sump. My question is bio balls or small peices of live rock in my first chamber? there will be a sponge and a micronfibre filter bag over the outlet. Also should i just leave the middle section with a skimmer in it or would i be better with a deep sand bed?

Thanks for all your help as aslways guys

Dave

xJake · 05/29/2008, 12:01 AM

I would keep some live rock down there and grow some macroalgae as well. If you could post a quick diagram of the sump that would help a lot.

O-man21 · 05/29/2008, 12:10 AM

Both will trap detritus and cause nitrates.

ludnix · 05/29/2008, 12:12 AM

I would not use the bio-balls as they are known for becoming a detritus trap. I would not replace the skimmer with a deep sand bed if that's what you're asking, but if you have room for both somehow, then it sounds good (as long as the skimmer isn't in the deep sand bed

).

Peter Eichler · 05/29/2008, 02:28 AM

I wouldn't do live rock rubble or bioballs. Having some sort of biological filtration before you protein skimmer is just asking for nitrate problems Then again I wouldn't have the sponge or filter bag either... My some consists of a couple large pieces of live rock, because I bought too much

, a skimmer, chaetomorpha, a TLF reactor, a proteing skimmer, and some pumps.

chris31 · 05/29/2008, 04:49 AM

through some pieces of live rock in there bio balls are just a disaster waiting to happen. they just clogs up nitrates in them and cause problems with your tank

RichConley · 05/29/2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
I wouldn't do live rock rubble or bioballs. Having some sort of biological filtration before you protein skimmer is just asking for nitrate problems T

Completely agree Peter.

You want to give your skimmer every chance to remove waste from the system before you let your rubble/rock/algae try to reprocess the waste.

matthewscars · 05/29/2008, 08:27 AM

Funny, my LFS said to ONLY use BioBalls and that LR is a horrible idea for a bio filter.

They just looked at me like I was crazy for using LR.

Plus LR looks cooler.

abulgin · 05/29/2008, 09:20 AM

Although I had 0 nitrates on my tank--running for over a year--I decided to remove the bio-balls and replace with 4 lbs of dry fiji rock at $3 per lb. I figured the dry rock would quickly become biologically active, so I opted not to spend the extra cash on cured live rock. My skimmer pump sits in the middle of the rock, so for the most part it is getting water directly from the display. I can't tell you how much better my skimmer is performing now that the water isn't pre-filtered by bio-balls.

heller792 · 05/29/2008, 03:09 PM

Ok thanks guys, the aquarium arrived today and I have had my first look at it and its great. The sump is so big and consists of 4 chamber and 2 lots of bubble traps. first and last chamber are 6 inch wide and middle 2 chambers are 11 inch, could someone advise me of the perfect setup for this sump

Toad42013 · 05/29/2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by matthewscars
Funny, my LFS said to ONLY use BioBalls and that LR is a horrible idea for a bio filter.

They just looked at me like I was crazy for using LR.

Plus LR looks cooler.

My LFS said the same thing. They have three large very nice reef tanks and use Bio balls in all of them. When i told them i use LR and dead coral they tried to talk me into getting rid of it.

abulgin · 05/29/2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by heller792
Ok thanks guys, the aquarium arrived today and I have had my first look at it and its great. The sump is so big and consists of 4 chamber and 2 lots of bubble traps. first and last chamber are 6 inch wide and middle 2 chambers are 11 inch, could someone advise me of the perfect setup for this sump

It's hard to direct you without seeing a diagram, but . . . First chamber, protein skimmer pump. Second chamber, protein skimmer body (if skimmer body fits fine in the first chamber, treat it like the third chamber). Third chamber, deep sand bed, Chaeto, live rock. Fourth chamber, return pump. Just my thoughts.

theboywiggans · 05/29/2008, 03:36 PM

Hey everyone first post so i'll try not to waffle on............

Ok now my new tank seems like a bad design. It's the aquaone reef200 and the refugium setup in the back has the skimmer in the last chamber??????????
I was gonna replace the lava rock bags with small lumps of live rock and grow some caulerpa in one of the chambers........
Is this all the wrong way round too??

seapug · 05/29/2008, 04:54 PM

putting live rock in your sump so it is submerged underwater is fine and dandy. Live rock as a trickle filter substitute for bio-balls is a waste of money and has all the same drawbacks as plastic bio-balls. It's not about the media used in a trickle filter, it's about the biological processes that trickle filters are designed to perform (nitrification of ammonia). Both bioballs and live rock will create a net increase in nitrate when used in a trickle filter arrangement.

tmz · 05/29/2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seapug
putting live rock in your sump so it is submerged underwater is fine and dandy. Live rock as a trickle filter substitute for bio-balls is a waste of money and has all the same drawbacks as plastic bio-balls. It's not about the media used in a trickle filter, it's about the biological processes that trickle filters are designed to perform (nitrification of ammonia). Both bioballs and live rock will create a net increase in nitrate when used in a trickle filter arrangement.

I agree. The fast moving water creates high oxygen zones which encourage the first two phases of dentrification producing nitrate from ammonia and nitrite. Since the nitrate is formed here rather than on the rock or substrate, it goes into the water column rather than into the sustrate or rock where bacteria in anoxic zones will strip the oxygen from the nitrate releasing pure nitrogen. Larger rocks in the sump would probably be able to establish the anoxia needed inside them. Rubble will act just like bioballs.

johnike · 05/29/2008, 05:25 PM

First and second chamber of my 55 DIY sump have had LR for years.Bio-balls are evil. Go with the rock. Toad42013,that yer Copperband?Almost as purdy as mine! John

heller792 · 05/29/2008, 11:45 PM

But what about the removal of fine particles?

reef2 · 05/29/2008, 11:55 PM

my first chamber of my sump is bb and has my skimmer in it. u should see a the crap that collects in that chamber. i cant imagine trapping all of it in bio balls or lr.

O-man21 · 05/30/2008, 12:14 AM

Run floss to remove fine particles. Change it at least once a week.

05/28/2008, 11:54 PM	#1
heller792 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: wigan Posts: 652	Sump bio balls vs small live rocks Ok guys my new tank is comming today and its my first sump. My question is bio balls or small peices of live rock in my first chamber? there will be a sponge and a micronfibre filter bag over the outlet. Also should i just leave the middle section with a skimmer in it or would i be better with a deep sand bed? Thanks for all your help as aslways guys Dave

05/29/2008, 12:12 AM	#4
ludnix Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,031	I would not use the bio-balls as they are known for becoming a detritus trap. I would not replace the skimmer with a deep sand bed if that's what you're asking, but if you have room for both somehow, then it sounds good (as long as the skimmer isn't in the deep sand bed ). __________________ -Eric Sutter Current Tank Info: 14g Biocube

05/29/2008, 02:28 AM	#5
Peter Eichler Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 6,081	I wouldn't do live rock rubble or bioballs. Having some sort of biological filtration before you protein skimmer is just asking for nitrate problems Then again I wouldn't have the sponge or filter bag either... My some consists of a couple large pieces of live rock, because I bought too much , a skimmer, chaetomorpha, a TLF reactor, a proteing skimmer, and some pumps. __________________ April 2015 TOTM

05/29/2008, 08:27 AM	#8
matthewscars Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Astoria, NY Posts: 657	Funny, my LFS said to ONLY use BioBalls and that LR is a horrible idea for a bio filter. They just looked at me like I was crazy for using LR. Plus LR looks cooler. __________________ A plane passed silently overhead, the streetlights, and the buds on the trees and the night, were still. Current Tank Info: 90g Reef/35g Sump with Foam Rock Wall. 10g Propagation Reef. 55g Goldfish Tank.

05/29/2008, 04:54 PM	#14
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	putting live rock in your sump so it is submerged underwater is fine and dandy. Live rock as a trickle filter substitute for bio-balls is a waste of money and has all the same drawbacks as plastic bio-balls. It's not about the media used in a trickle filter, it's about the biological processes that trickle filters are designed to perform (nitrification of ammonia). Both bioballs and live rock will create a net increase in nitrate when used in a trickle filter arrangement. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

05/29/2008, 12:01 AM	#2
xJake Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,385	I would keep some live rock down there and grow some macroalgae as well. If you could post a quick diagram of the sump that would help a lot.

05/29/2008, 12:10 AM	#3
O-man21 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 141	Both will trap detritus and cause nitrates.

05/29/2008, 04:49 AM	#6
chris31 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: long island NY Posts: 928	through some pieces of live rock in there bio balls are just a disaster waiting to happen. they just clogs up nitrates in them and cause problems with your tank

05/29/2008, 09:20 AM	#9
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	Although I had 0 nitrates on my tank--running for over a year--I decided to remove the bio-balls and replace with 4 lbs of dry fiji rock at $3 per lb. I figured the dry rock would quickly become biologically active, so I opted not to spend the extra cash on cured live rock. My skimmer pump sits in the middle of the rock, so for the most part it is getting water directly from the display. I can't tell you how much better my skimmer is performing now that the water isn't pre-filtered by bio-balls.

05/29/2008, 03:09 PM	#10
heller792 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: wigan Posts: 652	Ok thanks guys, the aquarium arrived today and I have had my first look at it and its great. The sump is so big and consists of 4 chamber and 2 lots of bubble traps. first and last chamber are 6 inch wide and middle 2 chambers are 11 inch, could someone advise me of the perfect setup for this sump

05/29/2008, 03:36 PM	#13
theboywiggans Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Llanboidy, Wales, UK Posts: 13	Hey everyone first post so i'll try not to waffle on............ Ok now my new tank seems like a bad design. It's the aquaone reef200 and the refugium setup in the back has the skimmer in the last chamber?????????? I was gonna replace the lava rock bags with small lumps of live rock and grow some caulerpa in one of the chambers........ Is this all the wrong way round too??

05/29/2008, 05:25 PM	#16
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	First and second chamber of my 55 DIY sump have had LR for years.Bio-balls are evil. Go with the rock. Toad42013,that yer Copperband?Almost as purdy as mine! John

05/29/2008, 11:45 PM	#17
heller792 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: wigan Posts: 652	But what about the removal of fine particles?

05/29/2008, 11:55 PM	#18
reef2 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: michigan Posts: 639	my first chamber of my sump is bb and has my skimmer in it. u should see a the crap that collects in that chamber. i cant imagine trapping all of it in bio balls or lr.

05/30/2008, 12:14 AM	#19
O-man21 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 141	Run floss to remove fine particles. Change it at least once a week.