Can I sift my sand? I need to.

CStoner · 02/25/2009, 11:37 PM

I have lots of loose rocks and rock garbage ( pebbles and bits of rock ) all over my sand. I tried picking them out but that's a real pain.

My tank is only 2 months old. It's 34 Gal. 30L X 12D X 22H
Octopus HOB skimmer
2 Korilla-1 powerheads
Canister filter running carbon and GFO
34 Lbs of LR ( Cured but nothing on most of it )
250W MH 10" above the water.

SA 1.026
Amonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 2.0
Phosphate 0.5
PH 8.3
CA 420
KH 14

10 Blue legged crabs
10 Nasarius snails

My plan is to empty most of the water into a couple of large containers. Place the LR in the largest contianer and blow the debris off with a powerhead. This should settle to the bottom so I won't import it back into the tank when I refill it.

I'll add a powerhead and heater prior.

I plan on getting a sifter that can sift my grade sand. I'll remove most of the water and save it then I can work with the sand.

I know there may be another mini cycle, but I want this stuff gone and this is really the only way to clean my sand without removing it and washing. I don't want to take it out of the tank.

If I pickout all the critters from sifting, what else do I need to look for? No livestock other than the crabs and snails listed above.

I also plan a water change when I do this. Should I change 30% or 50% of my water?

Any suggestions or comments are most welcome.

VacavilleFC3S · 02/26/2009, 12:29 AM

my recommendation is not to do it, stiriing up your sand that much is going to cause more than just a mini cycle. get yourself a cucumber or sand sifting goby i've had best results using them over sand sifting stars

thegrun · 02/26/2009, 01:22 AM

I believe it will be fine if you really "must" do it, no need to be miserable because you have debris in your sand. Plan on a mini-cycle, but other than that, I see no harm in doing it. You can do a 25% water change if you want, but I don't think it is necessary. How did all the loose rocks get there in the first place? Is your live rock decaying? If so, you may want to think about replacing it or you will have the same issue in a couple of months. An occasional piece falling off is normal, but you can pick those out by hand, enough to make you empty your tank is a cause for concern.

vid660 · 02/26/2009, 02:06 AM

I wouldn't do it with such a young tank. Is it really that bad? I place smaller rock rubble around my sand bed for a more "natural" look.

kzickovich · 02/26/2009, 07:21 AM

http://www.melevsreef.com/rinsing_sand.html

IslandCrow · 02/26/2009, 08:13 AM

I have to disagree with the first and third responses and agree with Melev (the author of kzickovich's link, and always a safe bet). Stirring up a two-month old sandbed is not going to be an issue. As a matter of fact, I don't think stirring up a shallow sandbed in general is much of an issue. Mine gets stirred up all the time (of course, that may be why it's not a problem for me). I even kept my 7 month old sandbed the last time I moved my tank. The sand and rock was transferred to buckets, and I drove 6 hours. There was no noticable cycle in a moderately stocked tank.

Your plan sounds like a pretty good one. If I understand you correctly, you're going to use a siphon that's powerful enough to grab the sand, but not the rubble. Then, you'll pick out the rubble and add the sand back in. Truthfully, I wouldn't expect much (if any) of a cycle after that. A water change is a good idea, though. I'd probably only do 20-25% personally, but as long as you match the temperature, salinity and PH, 50% should be just fine as well. Either way, your tank is probably going to be cloudy for a little while, but it'll clear up before long.

I think you're choosing the right time to do this. . .while the tank is still young. It's just going to get more complicated if you wait. Best of luck.

shuguley · 02/26/2009, 10:48 AM

I agree with IslandCrow.
I have used a gravel vac to vaccuum my sand a few times and I have used a turkey baster to blast the top layer many times, all with no bad affects on livestock. But a sand sifting goby or a watchman goby/pistol shrimp combo will also do a marvelous job of sifting the sand. Nassariuos and Cerith snails will also help by burrowing in the sand. Fighting conchs are also good sand cleaners, but they get big.

FutureBoyGenius · 02/26/2009, 11:03 AM

I wouldn't do anymore than a 25% water change. You are already disrupting alot the denitrifying bacteria and if you removed "50%" you would lose the denitrying bacteria present in that amount of water. Do small water changes frequently opposed to one large change.

jnb · 02/26/2009, 11:44 AM

shouldn't be much of an issue - I wouldn't wash the sand with new water - you will have cloud galore except for the fact it is pretty new - I am trying to visualize what you are wanting to get rid of and wondering if you make a rake sifter to just rake the sand without taking your tank all apart - just something with holes to catch 90% of what you want out - perhaps do half the tank one day and wait a week and do the other half

I once moved my reef to another house - I took my sand (around 2.5 inches thick) out with a kitchen spatula and put it right back in to the new tank - boy was it cloudy - but the next morning it was 90% clear - it is very difficult to clean sand to the point of not much cloud and if you succeeded , it probably means you cleaned too much life right out of it (bacteria, micro critter, etc.) - I did about a 25% water change on the move - no death.

IslandCrow · 02/26/2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't do anymore than a 25% water change. You are already disrupting alot the denitrifying bacteria and if you removed "50%" you would lose the denitrying bacteria present in that amount of water.

Realize that the majority of this bacteria resides on and in the sand and rock, not free-floating in the water. Even if he did a 100% water change, he'd lose very little bacteria.

vid660 · 02/26/2009, 01:10 PM

What IslandCRow says makes alot of sense. I also can't argue with Melev's info. His site was extremely helpful when I was designing my sump. Is it too late to change my first response?

FutureBoyGenius · 02/26/2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IslandCrow
Realize that the majority of this bacteria resides on and in the sand and rock, not free-floating in the water. Even if he did a 100% water change, he'd lose very little bacteria.

Good point, I just wouldn't want to disrupt my tank that much in one day.

IslandCrow · 02/26/2009, 03:01 PM

That's a very valid point, Future. I'm usually a bigger fan of multiple small water changes rather than one big one. In this case, I think a large water change may be appropriate, but although I don't think it will cause any problems, I wouldn't do a 50% water change either.

CStoner · 02/26/2009, 05:18 PM

Thanks for all of the tips. I just didn't rinse my rocks enough and some mall pieces have broken off while setting up the tank. Too many to jus tpick out. My rocks are not being eaten away :-)

I have a small screen sifter I am going to try to use. I might try 1/2 this week and the other 1/2 next.

Thanks again.

FutureBoyGenius · 02/26/2009, 08:17 PM

I understand what your going through, I have a thread I started today that is about replacing my entire sand bed. My sand is mixed black and white aragonite and I think it looks too dirty.

That is another option for you, if the sand is causing a problem.

In that thread, I have been told to siphon out my sand in portions and then replace it in portions.

02/25/2009, 11:37 PM	#1
CStoner Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dallas Fort Worth Texas Posts: 90	Can I sift my sand? I need to. I have lots of loose rocks and rock garbage ( pebbles and bits of rock ) all over my sand. I tried picking them out but that's a real pain. My tank is only 2 months old. It's 34 Gal. 30L X 12D X 22H Octopus HOB skimmer 2 Korilla-1 powerheads Canister filter running carbon and GFO 34 Lbs of LR ( Cured but nothing on most of it ) 250W MH 10" above the water. SA 1.026 Amonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 2.0 Phosphate 0.5 PH 8.3 CA 420 KH 14 10 Blue legged crabs 10 Nasarius snails My plan is to empty most of the water into a couple of large containers. Place the LR in the largest contianer and blow the debris off with a powerhead. This should settle to the bottom so I won't import it back into the tank when I refill it. I'll add a powerhead and heater prior. I plan on getting a sifter that can sift my grade sand. I'll remove most of the water and save it then I can work with the sand. I know there may be another mini cycle, but I want this stuff gone and this is really the only way to clean my sand without removing it and washing. I don't want to take it out of the tank. If I pickout all the critters from sifting, what else do I need to look for? No livestock other than the crabs and snails listed above. I also plan a water change when I do this. Should I change 30% or 50% of my water? Any suggestions or comments are most welcome. Last edited by CStoner; 02/25/2009 at 11:44 PM.

02/26/2009, 07:21 AM	#5
kzickovich Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Zion Il Posts: 959	http://www.melevsreef.com/rinsing_sand.html __________________ Ken Current Tank Info: 90 Gal mixed reef 55 Gallon basement pump up Sump 25 Gal fuge 2 Mp40 DIY led light fixture Bubble King Mini 200 Gen2 skimmer BRS Duel reactor

02/26/2009, 08:13 AM	#6
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	I have to disagree with the first and third responses and agree with Melev (the author of kzickovich's link, and always a safe bet). Stirring up a two-month old sandbed is not going to be an issue. As a matter of fact, I don't think stirring up a shallow sandbed in general is much of an issue. Mine gets stirred up all the time (of course, that may be why it's not a problem for me). I even kept my 7 month old sandbed the last time I moved my tank. The sand and rock was transferred to buckets, and I drove 6 hours. There was no noticable cycle in a moderately stocked tank. Your plan sounds like a pretty good one. If I understand you correctly, you're going to use a siphon that's powerful enough to grab the sand, but not the rubble. Then, you'll pick out the rubble and add the sand back in. Truthfully, I wouldn't expect much (if any) of a cycle after that. A water change is a good idea, though. I'd probably only do 20-25% personally, but as long as you match the temperature, salinity and PH, 50% should be just fine as well. Either way, your tank is probably going to be cloudy for a little while, but it'll clear up before long. I think you're choosing the right time to do this. . .while the tank is still young. It's just going to get more complicated if you wait. Best of luck. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

02/26/2009, 10:48 AM	#7
shuguley Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Smiths Station, AL Posts: 536	I agree with IslandCrow. I have used a gravel vac to vaccuum my sand a few times and I have used a turkey baster to blast the top layer many times, all with no bad affects on livestock. But a sand sifting goby or a watchman goby/pistol shrimp combo will also do a marvelous job of sifting the sand. Nassariuos and Cerith snails will also help by burrowing in the sand. Fighting conchs are also good sand cleaners, but they get big. __________________ 2 Ocellaris Clowns, Midas Blenny, Spotted Mandarin, Pistol Shrimp, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, Large CUC Corals: Xenia, Candy Cane, Zoas, Frogspawn, Brain, Bubble, Shrooms, Sun Current Tank Info: 55G Reef w/ 15G sump/fuge w/chaeto, Phosban Reactor w/GFO, AquaC Remora Protein Skimmer, 2 Koralia 3s, Nova Extreme T5HO 216W, 85lbs LR, 60lbs LS

02/26/2009, 11:03 AM	#8
FutureBoyGenius Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 354	I wouldn't do anymore than a 25% water change. You are already disrupting alot the denitrifying bacteria and if you removed "50%" you would lose the denitrying bacteria present in that amount of water. Do small water changes frequently opposed to one large change. __________________ ~Addicted to Salt~ Current Tank Info: Planning my next build

02/26/2009, 12:29 AM	#2
VacavilleFC3S Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vacaville California Posts: 2,613	my recommendation is not to do it, stiriing up your sand that much is going to cause more than just a mini cycle. get yourself a cucumber or sand sifting goby i've had best results using them over sand sifting stars

02/26/2009, 01:22 AM	#3
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I believe it will be fine if you really "must" do it, no need to be miserable because you have debris in your sand. Plan on a mini-cycle, but other than that, I see no harm in doing it. You can do a 25% water change if you want, but I don't think it is necessary. How did all the loose rocks get there in the first place? Is your live rock decaying? If so, you may want to think about replacing it or you will have the same issue in a couple of months. An occasional piece falling off is normal, but you can pick those out by hand, enough to make you empty your tank is a cause for concern.

02/26/2009, 02:06 AM	#4
vid660 Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 466	I wouldn't do it with such a young tank. Is it really that bad? I place smaller rock rubble around my sand bed for a more "natural" look.

02/26/2009, 11:44 AM	#9
jnb Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: S.E. Florida Deerfield Beach Posts: 2,581	shouldn't be much of an issue - I wouldn't wash the sand with new water - you will have cloud galore except for the fact it is pretty new - I am trying to visualize what you are wanting to get rid of and wondering if you make a rake sifter to just rake the sand without taking your tank all apart - just something with holes to catch 90% of what you want out - perhaps do half the tank one day and wait a week and do the other half I once moved my reef to another house - I took my sand (around 2.5 inches thick) out with a kitchen spatula and put it right back in to the new tank - boy was it cloudy - but the next morning it was 90% clear - it is very difficult to clean sand to the point of not much cloud and if you succeeded , it probably means you cleaned too much life right out of it (bacteria, micro critter, etc.) - I did about a 25% water change on the move - no death.

02/26/2009, 01:10 PM	#11
vid660 Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 466	What IslandCRow says makes alot of sense. I also can't argue with Melev's info. His site was extremely helpful when I was designing my sump. Is it too late to change my first response?

02/26/2009, 03:01 PM	#13
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	That's a very valid point, Future. I'm usually a bigger fan of multiple small water changes rather than one big one. In this case, I think a large water change may be appropriate, but although I don't think it will cause any problems, I wouldn't do a 50% water change either. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

02/26/2009, 05:18 PM	#14
CStoner Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dallas Fort Worth Texas Posts: 90	Thanks for all of the tips. I just didn't rinse my rocks enough and some mall pieces have broken off while setting up the tank. Too many to jus tpick out. My rocks are not being eaten away :-) I have a small screen sifter I am going to try to use. I might try 1/2 this week and the other 1/2 next. Thanks again.

02/26/2009, 08:17 PM	#15
FutureBoyGenius Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 354	I understand what your going through, I have a thread I started today that is about replacing my entire sand bed. My sand is mixed black and white aragonite and I think it looks too dirty. That is another option for you, if the sand is causing a problem. In that thread, I have been told to siphon out my sand in portions and then replace it in portions. __________________ ~Addicted to Salt~ Current Tank Info: Planning my next build