Black worms?

apshooter · 11/23/2009, 03:47 PM

I've read a few posts touting black worms and how peoples fish and corals love them. I asked about them at one of my LFS and they said that black worms were tubifex. Is this true?

I'd love to have more info on what they are, how to store, feed etc.

cloak · 11/23/2009, 03:57 PM

There tubifex to me. There are some pictures of where these black worms are farmed on line, those ponds look just like the floater farm that's right off I 5 going to Lodi. They got the smell and everything. Here's a picture of some I got from the LFS. They look pretty harmless, but I don't even feed them to my freshwater fish that often. I'd much rather rely on all the prepared foods that are on the market.

John Zillmer · 11/23/2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apshooter

I asked about them at one of my LFS and they said that black worms were tubifex. Is this true?

Nope. Blackworms are Lumbriculus variegatus. Tubifex are Tubifex tubifex. Different worms.

cloak · 11/23/2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Zillmer

Nope. Blackworms are Lumbriculus variegatus. Tubifex are Tubifex tubifex. Different worms.

Can you tell the difference? What was in the picture above?

John Zillmer · 11/23/2009, 06:46 PM

I've never seen live Tubifex, but the worms in the above picture are pretty clearly blackworms.

Tubifex (live ones) were more popular/available pre-1990s (old posts on the freshwater forum "The Krib" refer to live Tubifex pretty often); they are still available freeze-dried -- some uses in freshwater fishkeeping, but I've never heard of anyone feeding them to SW fish. You could, though.

Live blackworms are supposedly pretty nutritious. I've used them a bunch -- great for getting a feeding response in wild-caught freshwater fish. Blackworms die pretty fast once they hit SW (like 30 seconds, if that).

Frozen bloodworms (the larval form of Chironomus) are a good substitute -- though be warned that some people are allergic to these things (I went to the ER recently), usually a short-term itchy skin issue. Butterflyfish seem especially to like these, and some people say their Synchiropus sp. dragonettes like them (mine won't eat them).

ebman74 · 11/23/2009, 06:52 PM

Here is some good info from another post about blackworms. I have not found them locally yet, but plan to.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ht=black+worms

cloak · 11/23/2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Zillmer

I've never seen live Tubifex, but the worms in the above picture are pretty clearly blackworms.

Tubifex (live ones) were more popular/available pre-1990s (old posts on the freshwater forum "The Krib" refer to live Tubifex pretty often); they are still available freeze-dried -- some uses in freshwater fishkeeping, but I've never heard of anyone feeding them to SW fish. You could, though.

Live blackworms are supposedly pretty nutritious. I've used them a bunch -- great for getting a feeding response in wild-caught freshwater fish. Blackworms die pretty fast once they hit SW (like 30 seconds, if that).

Frozen bloodworms (the larval form of Chironomus) are a good substitute -- though be warned that some people are allergic to these things (I went to the ER recently), usually a short-term itchy skin issue. Butterflyfish seem especially to like these, and some people say their Synchiropus sp. dragonettes like them (mine won't eat them).

Could have fooled me. I've been buying those worms for the last 18 years at the same LFS. I've worked there for a couple years too. When a customer asked for blackworms, I'd say how many ounces. When they ask for tubifex, I'd say how many ounces. It's kind of amazing how after all this time, now there is a different worm on the market. They both stink IMO. I guess it takes a keen eye.

John Zillmer · 11/23/2009, 07:59 PM

So, Googling around yields some cool pics of T. tubifex. Here's a good one:

http://www.ventralfins.com/images/mi...tta_farm12.jpg

Smaller than blackworms, more pink-red in color (they are white when freeze-dried, somewhat oddly). Like I said, I never saw live Tubifex. Also, it may be that in some circles the two common names substitute for each other.

Years ago, Tubifex got a bad reputation for being a dirty disease-carrier. Blackworms never got this rep, at least not to the degree that Tubifex did. A common name of T. tubifex is 'sludge worm'; apparently they live in some pretty nasty spots in nature, whereas L. variegatus lives on lake shores, river banks, and other spots you'd like to have a romantic picnic. Plus, blackworms are raised in captivity. I think (not sure though) that Tubifex are (were, anyway) wild-collected. And we all know that you don't want any nature in your tank.

Elysia · 11/23/2009, 09:00 PM

Information:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/doc...ackworms.shtml

All of these past threads have good information about blackworms in them:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms

and on fish eggs:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms

somdinwong · 11/23/2009, 09:40 PM

i heard about dragonets being trained on them. also that they might induce spauning

apshooter · 11/24/2009, 03:22 PM

Thanks all.

Elysia thanks for the link to fish eggs. Interesting.

11/23/2009, 03:47 PM	#1
apshooter Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tracy, CA Posts: 98	Black worms? I've read a few posts touting black worms and how peoples fish and corals love them. I asked about them at one of my LFS and they said that black worms were tubifex. Is this true? I'd love to have more info on what they are, how to store, feed etc.

11/23/2009, 06:46 PM	#5
John Zillmer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 375	I've never seen live Tubifex, but the worms in the above picture are pretty clearly blackworms. Tubifex (live ones) were more popular/available pre-1990s (old posts on the freshwater forum "The Krib" refer to live Tubifex pretty often); they are still available freeze-dried -- some uses in freshwater fishkeeping, but I've never heard of anyone feeding them to SW fish. You could, though. Live blackworms are supposedly pretty nutritious. I've used them a bunch -- great for getting a feeding response in wild-caught freshwater fish. Blackworms die pretty fast once they hit SW (like 30 seconds, if that). Frozen bloodworms (the larval form of Chironomus) are a good substitute -- though be warned that some people are allergic to these things (I went to the ER recently), usually a short-term itchy skin issue. Butterflyfish seem especially to like these, and some people say their Synchiropus sp. dragonettes like them (mine won't eat them). __________________ Maybe there isn't any such thing as normativity -- but there should be. Current Tank Info: 90 g mixed reef, 40 g 'fuge, T5HO, Simplicity 240DC

11/23/2009, 07:59 PM	#8
John Zillmer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 375	So, Googling around yields some cool pics of T. tubifex. Here's a good one: http://www.ventralfins.com/images/mi...tta_farm12.jpg Smaller than blackworms, more pink-red in color (they are white when freeze-dried, somewhat oddly). Like I said, I never saw live Tubifex. Also, it may be that in some circles the two common names substitute for each other. Years ago, Tubifex got a bad reputation for being a dirty disease-carrier. Blackworms never got this rep, at least not to the degree that Tubifex did. A common name of T. tubifex is 'sludge worm'; apparently they live in some pretty nasty spots in nature, whereas L. variegatus lives on lake shores, river banks, and other spots you'd like to have a romantic picnic. Plus, blackworms are raised in captivity. I think (not sure though) that Tubifex are (were, anyway) wild-collected. And we all know that you don't want any nature in your tank. __________________ Maybe there isn't any such thing as normativity -- but there should be. Current Tank Info: 90 g mixed reef, 40 g 'fuge, T5HO, Simplicity 240DC

11/23/2009, 03:57 PM	#2
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	There tubifex to me. There are some pictures of where these black worms are farmed on line, those ponds look just like the floater farm that's right off I 5 going to Lodi. They got the smell and everything. Here's a picture of some I got from the LFS. They look pretty harmless, but I don't even feed them to my freshwater fish that often. I'd much rather rely on all the prepared foods that are on the market.

11/23/2009, 06:52 PM	#6
ebman74 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Gainesville, Va Posts: 103	Here is some good info from another post about blackworms. I have not found them locally yet, but plan to. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ht=black+worms

11/23/2009, 09:00 PM	#9
Elysia Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,718	Information: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/doc...ackworms.shtml All of these past threads have good information about blackworms in them: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms and on fish eggs: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=blackworms

11/23/2009, 09:40 PM	#10
somdinwong Moved On Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: venice Posts: 593	i heard about dragonets being trained on them. also that they might induce spauning

11/24/2009, 03:22 PM	#11
apshooter Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tracy, CA Posts: 98	Thanks all. Elysia thanks for the link to fish eggs. Interesting.