cycling with cocktail shrimp

president89 · 12/18/2009, 09:15 AM

Hi,
I put a piece of cocktail shrimp in my empty barebottom tank to start the ammonia cycle. The water is starting to smell after 2 days, can I remove the shrimp? Is that enough to get the tank through the cycle? I wanted to go this route instead of subjecting a clown pair to it. My plan is to purchase a breeding clownfish pair. If that's not enough, I guess I could hit my LFS and buy a piece of live rock and put in a maxijet. I just wasn't sure if the tank needed a steady supply of waste to go through the cycle. I read that you can cycle the tank with clowns as long as the ammonia levels are kept low by water changes, but that will prolong the cycle. Let me know if I should leave that shrimp in there, or if its ok to remove. The last tank i had setup was one with liverock and a deepsandbed to the live rock provided the ammonia and I didn't add live fish until all the nitrite was gone.

15G-plan for live stock 2 ocellaris clownfish.
ex45 whisperHOB filter installed
Heat set at 80F
Light cycle 12 hours
SGC 1.020 RODI WATER

Madratter · 12/18/2009, 09:20 AM

More than likely you can remove it. What is the ammonia level at currently? If it has gotten to 4 or 5 ppm, you can remove it. That should give you a nice robust cycle.

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/18/2009, 09:25 AM

With nothing but a hang-on filter, your tank is gonna be a little unstable IMHO. Why aren't you using live rock, a skimmer, or any other equipment?

president89 · 12/18/2009, 09:49 AM

FO Clown Setup. I have a HOB skimmers I might use. I just planned on doing weekly water changes. I have a RODI setup like 5 feet next to the tank, so that'll make that easy. I wanted to keep the tanks as simple as possible. Live rock requires powerheads. The HOB is rated for 40g+ tanks so the flow is enough to keep stuff from settling on the bottom of the tank. I was going to plumb a central filtration system, but then I thought That would be risking spread of disease. I have 4 of above setups. I'll check ammonia. It wasn't registering on my salifert test yesterday morning. But the smell wasn't present then either.

thegrun · 12/18/2009, 09:53 AM

The clown fish are going to be stressed without anything to hide in. I would rethink the bare tank and fish only set-up.

president89 · 12/18/2009, 09:57 AM

Sorry I forgot to mention the clay flower pot and ceramic tiles. I didn't consider that equiptment.

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/18/2009, 10:02 AM

I'm guessing this is a breeding setup? Will the fry be raised in a separate tank?

It's gonna depend a lot on feeding and bioload in general, I think you'll be OK but be ready to do WCs more than once a week if levels are out of whack. Simple breeding tanks like this are convenient, but not the most stable. Luckily they're easy to adjust though.

president89 · 12/18/2009, 10:18 AM

Breeding setup is correct. I setup the 4 tanks for the pairs. Now I'm setting up broodstock and fry tanks. But that will be another topic and I might have to wait months for already established pairs to mate after moving them. So I have a little while before I have to have all those kinks worked out. I was just concerned with this issue of cycling without liverock or sand. Thanks guys.

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/18/2009, 10:26 AM

Essentially, you're growing bacteria on the media in the filter - so don't screw with it too much! A tank that bare will have very little bacterial colony otherwise.

president89 · 12/18/2009, 10:39 AM

I was almost thinking of taking some sand, and putting in some nylon mesh and putting it in the bottom of the filter. Of course I could always get a sponge filter to supplement the HOB. That way I can clean/replace one filter and the other will still have the bacteria to keep the tank from recycling.

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/18/2009, 10:43 AM

I would definitely do something like that, if you have the means.

president89 · 12/18/2009, 10:50 AM

The design of the HOB actually has a BIO section that you really dont' need to touch. It's supposed to be where the bacteria lives, and the cotton/carbon insert is the part you change/clean. Of course I could just get rid of the bio part, stuff an extra cartridge in there, and then alternate which one I clean. Thanks guys. I like the sponge idea too because those are easy to remove.. and plant in a tank that needs to be seeded.

Agreed on the water changes. I was thinking 25% everyweek. That's only 2.5 gallons, but I If I needed to do more, it's not a big deal. That's the good part of small tanks.

wooden_reefer · 12/18/2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by president89

Hi,
I put a piece of cocktail shrimp in my empty barebottom tank to start the ammonia cycle. The water is starting to smell after 2 days, can I remove the shrimp? Is that enough to get the tank through the cycle? I wanted to go this route instead of subjecting a clown pair to it. My plan is to purchase a breeding clownfish pair. If that's not enough, I guess I could hit my LFS and buy a piece of live rock and put in a maxijet. I just wasn't sure if the tank needed a steady supply of waste to go through the cycle. I read that you can cycle the tank with clowns as long as the ammonia levels are kept low by water changes, but that will prolong the cycle. Let me know if I should leave that shrimp in there, or if its ok to remove. The last tank i had setup was one with liverock and a deepsandbed to the live rock provided the ammonia and I didn't add live fish until all the nitrite was gone.

15G-plan for live stock 2 ocellaris clownfish.
ex45 whisperHOB filter installed
Heat set at 80F
Light cycle 12 hours
SGC 1.020 RODI WATER

I generally emulsify the shrimp for cycling, so I never remove it. I will know the approximate ammonia concentration this way.

It is a matter of mass balance. Generally, 15 grams of moist shrimp will decay completely to give 1 ppm N ammonia in 100 gals of water. If you remove any shrimp, you may not know if you have enough ammonia unless you do ammonia tests.

So the question is what ammonia pulse level are you aiming for?

I would say just 1 ppm and more frequent addition to maintain such level if you want to save some lives on your rock.

Several 5 ppm pulses if you do not.

12/18/2009, 09:15 AM	#1
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	cycling with cocktail shrimp Hi, I put a piece of cocktail shrimp in my empty barebottom tank to start the ammonia cycle. The water is starting to smell after 2 days, can I remove the shrimp? Is that enough to get the tank through the cycle? I wanted to go this route instead of subjecting a clown pair to it. My plan is to purchase a breeding clownfish pair. If that's not enough, I guess I could hit my LFS and buy a piece of live rock and put in a maxijet. I just wasn't sure if the tank needed a steady supply of waste to go through the cycle. I read that you can cycle the tank with clowns as long as the ammonia levels are kept low by water changes, but that will prolong the cycle. Let me know if I should leave that shrimp in there, or if its ok to remove. The last tank i had setup was one with liverock and a deepsandbed to the live rock provided the ammonia and I didn't add live fish until all the nitrite was gone. 15G-plan for live stock 2 ocellaris clownfish. ex45 whisperHOB filter installed Heat set at 80F Light cycle 12 hours SGC 1.020 RODI WATER

12/18/2009, 09:25 AM	#3
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	With nothing but a hang-on filter, your tank is gonna be a little unstable IMHO. Why aren't you using live rock, a skimmer, or any other equipment? __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

12/18/2009, 10:02 AM	#7
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	I'm guessing this is a breeding setup? Will the fry be raised in a separate tank? It's gonna depend a lot on feeding and bioload in general, I think you'll be OK but be ready to do WCs more than once a week if levels are out of whack. Simple breeding tanks like this are convenient, but not the most stable. Luckily they're easy to adjust though. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

12/18/2009, 10:26 AM	#9
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Essentially, you're growing bacteria on the media in the filter - so don't screw with it too much! A tank that bare will have very little bacterial colony otherwise. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

12/18/2009, 10:43 AM	#11
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	I would definitely do something like that, if you have the means. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

12/18/2009, 09:20 AM	#2
Madratter Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 223	More than likely you can remove it. What is the ammonia level at currently? If it has gotten to 4 or 5 ppm, you can remove it. That should give you a nice robust cycle.

12/18/2009, 09:49 AM	#4
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	FO Clown Setup. I have a HOB skimmers I might use. I just planned on doing weekly water changes. I have a RODI setup like 5 feet next to the tank, so that'll make that easy. I wanted to keep the tanks as simple as possible. Live rock requires powerheads. The HOB is rated for 40g+ tanks so the flow is enough to keep stuff from settling on the bottom of the tank. I was going to plumb a central filtration system, but then I thought That would be risking spread of disease. I have 4 of above setups. I'll check ammonia. It wasn't registering on my salifert test yesterday morning. But the smell wasn't present then either.

12/18/2009, 09:53 AM	#5
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	The clown fish are going to be stressed without anything to hide in. I would rethink the bare tank and fish only set-up.

12/18/2009, 09:57 AM	#6
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	Sorry I forgot to mention the clay flower pot and ceramic tiles. I didn't consider that equiptment.

12/18/2009, 10:18 AM	#8
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	Breeding setup is correct. I setup the 4 tanks for the pairs. Now I'm setting up broodstock and fry tanks. But that will be another topic and I might have to wait months for already established pairs to mate after moving them. So I have a little while before I have to have all those kinks worked out. I was just concerned with this issue of cycling without liverock or sand. Thanks guys.

12/18/2009, 10:39 AM	#10
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	I was almost thinking of taking some sand, and putting in some nylon mesh and putting it in the bottom of the filter. Of course I could always get a sponge filter to supplement the HOB. That way I can clean/replace one filter and the other will still have the bacteria to keep the tank from recycling.

12/18/2009, 10:50 AM	#12
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	The design of the HOB actually has a BIO section that you really dont' need to touch. It's supposed to be where the bacteria lives, and the cotton/carbon insert is the part you change/clean. Of course I could just get rid of the bio part, stuff an extra cartridge in there, and then alternate which one I clean. Thanks guys. I like the sponge idea too because those are easy to remove.. and plant in a tank that needs to be seeded. Agreed on the water changes. I was thinking 25% everyweek. That's only 2.5 gallons, but I If I needed to do more, it's not a big deal. That's the good part of small tanks.