Odd: sockless-->skimmerless

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 07:33 PM

About a week or ten days ago I removed the sock from my sump, thinking I'd see if anything interesting resulted from leaving a little particulate matter in the system. A couple days after removing the sock, I noticed that the skimmer -- which has been trucking right along to the tune of about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of nastiness each day -- was producing virtually nothing. I collected about a couple tablespoons of brown water over the last week.

So this afternoon I was getting worried about the lack of skimming, and replaced the sock. Now, about 5 hours later, a nice solid head of foam is beginning to spill into the collection cup as it used to.

Has anyone had this experience? Any ideas as to why the skimmer would fail to work without a filter sock in place?

System is mixed garden reef, 75g DT, 40g sump/fuge, Turboflotor 1000 skimmer w/Rio recirc. and MJ1200 feed pump. Been set up for 12 months, all livestock was in a 55g system for previous 10 years or so.

lordofthereef · 01/01/2010, 07:42 PM

This is strange. How specifically is your sump set up? Does the height of the water that the skimmer is sitting in change at all with and then without the sock?

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 07:48 PM

Sump is like this: 40br with fuge section on right 2/3. Left 1/3 is sump: drain flows through sock (or just into the empty sock holder for the 10 mystery days) into sump. Skimmer, titanium heater element, ATO float switch and return pump (Quiet One 4000) are in sump. Skimmer has two outlets, one of which feeds the fuge section, the other of which flows into a acrylic box containing carbon and phos sponge (gravity-feed media reactor of sorts).

Good theory on the water height, but no, the level does not change. It is a simple acrylic sock holder (4"), nothing complicated there. The ATO keeps the sump level very constant.

Little Lucy 27 · 01/01/2010, 08:11 PM

Just a thought... that maybe the particles are too large and weigh down the bubbles? Pay no attention to me as I am a neophyte, but...I have been paying very close attention to my skimmer as it really seems to have a mind of it's own and I am trying to "get it"

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 08:16 PM

Y'know, Little Lucy, it must be something like what you are suggesting. Something that the sock traps is causing the bubbles not to form properly. I do feed the system really heavily, so your idea has some support there.

I used to run a limewood airstone countercurrent skimmer, and that thing would push up big chunks of food and detritus. I don't see such big chunks in the skimmate my current unit produces, but I do see particles often enough.

Edit: PS -- does 'neophyte' mean something like 'new plant'? A nicer term than 'noob', for sure

Little Lucy 27 · 01/01/2010, 08:26 PM

yep....neophyte means new or recently converted..lol...actually I did this hobby for years years ago...it has changed so much that itis a "new" hobby for me, for sure...shoot, I sat on the sump for weeks because I was afraid of it...lol...read and read and read some more...and what I learned is there is no one way to do it. AS a matter of fact I am gonna change it again, tonight. I'm fixing to post a question...does the skimmer skim out copepods?..I searched and can't seem to find the info...maybe you know?
Sorry for the hi-jack...Happy New Year

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Lucy 27

...does the skimmer skim out copepods?..

I'm guessing it does remove the swimming ones, just based on the size of them (really pretty small). But there are types of copepods that get around by walking on rocks and the glass; these would be less likely to get removed by the skimmer, I would think.

noahm · 01/01/2010, 09:47 PM

Interesting. I have never used a sock, but may try one just to see if it affects my skimmate production. I am wondering if it traps oils or something else that might affect bubble formation as mentioned before.

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahm

Interesting. I have never used a sock, but may try one just to see if it affects my skimmate production. I am wondering if it traps oils or something else that might affect bubble formation as mentioned before.

The oil theory was something that passed through my mind, too, but the skimmer has never been overly sensitive to me putting hands in the tank, and lately I've been wearing shoulder-length gloves much of the time when I can to keep my skin from drying out from the salt.

If you try a sock, I'd be interested to know if you notice a difference in skimmate production or quality.

noahm · 01/01/2010, 09:53 PM

I'm thinking oils from food actually.

.... Like big mac's and the like

jk fish food.

John Zillmer · 01/01/2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahm

I'm thinking oils from food actually.

.... Like big mac's and the like

jk fish food.

The heavyhanded way I feed, big macs might be the way to go

That makes more sense -- I didn't think of that. I feed a good deal of flake, some nori, and frozen mysis, brine, cyclopeeze and daphnia. No silversides, ever, but I suppose mysis could be a little oily. Oh, and a lot of Selcon and Zoecon sort of stuff to soak the food in...

reefgeezer · 01/01/2010, 10:33 PM

When I remove the filter sock from my sump, the skimmer quits also. I finally figured out that it allowed bubbles to be picked up by the skimmer input pump. This not only reduced the water volume some but also caused larger bubbles to be formed in the skimmer. These bubbles rise quickly and break the foam in the drying tube.

01/01/2010, 07:33 PM	#1
John Zillmer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 375	Odd: sockless-->skimmerless About a week or ten days ago I removed the sock from my sump, thinking I'd see if anything interesting resulted from leaving a little particulate matter in the system. A couple days after removing the sock, I noticed that the skimmer -- which has been trucking right along to the tune of about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of nastiness each day -- was producing virtually nothing. I collected about a couple tablespoons of brown water over the last week. So this afternoon I was getting worried about the lack of skimming, and replaced the sock. Now, about 5 hours later, a nice solid head of foam is beginning to spill into the collection cup as it used to. Has anyone had this experience? Any ideas as to why the skimmer would fail to work without a filter sock in place? System is mixed garden reef, 75g DT, 40g sump/fuge, Turboflotor 1000 skimmer w/Rio recirc. and MJ1200 feed pump. Been set up for 12 months, all livestock was in a 55g system for previous 10 years or so. __________________ Maybe there isn't any such thing as normativity -- but there should be. Current Tank Info: 90 g mixed reef, 40 g 'fuge, T5HO, Simplicity 240DC

01/01/2010, 07:42 PM	#2
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	This is strange. How specifically is your sump set up? Does the height of the water that the skimmer is sitting in change at all with and then without the sock? __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

01/01/2010, 07:48 PM	#3
John Zillmer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 375	Sump is like this: 40br with fuge section on right 2/3. Left 1/3 is sump: drain flows through sock (or just into the empty sock holder for the 10 mystery days) into sump. Skimmer, titanium heater element, ATO float switch and return pump (Quiet One 4000) are in sump. Skimmer has two outlets, one of which feeds the fuge section, the other of which flows into a acrylic box containing carbon and phos sponge (gravity-feed media reactor of sorts). Good theory on the water height, but no, the level does not change. It is a simple acrylic sock holder (4"), nothing complicated there. The ATO keeps the sump level very constant. __________________ Maybe there isn't any such thing as normativity -- but there should be. Current Tank Info: 90 g mixed reef, 40 g 'fuge, T5HO, Simplicity 240DC

01/01/2010, 08:11 PM	#4
Little Lucy 27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: washington Posts: 123	Just a thought... that maybe the particles are too large and weigh down the bubbles? Pay no attention to me as I am a neophyte, but...I have been paying very close attention to my skimmer as it really seems to have a mind of it's own and I am trying to "get it" __________________ Life is what you make it! I am making mine a reef ;-) If everything in your fish room hasn't gotten wet you aren't doing it right Current Tank Info: 75 gallon with 18 gallon sump

01/01/2010, 08:16 PM	#5
John Zillmer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 375	Y'know, Little Lucy, it must be something like what you are suggesting. Something that the sock traps is causing the bubbles not to form properly. I do feed the system really heavily, so your idea has some support there. I used to run a limewood airstone countercurrent skimmer, and that thing would push up big chunks of food and detritus. I don't see such big chunks in the skimmate my current unit produces, but I do see particles often enough. Edit: PS -- does 'neophyte' mean something like 'new plant'? A nicer term than 'noob', for sure __________________ Maybe there isn't any such thing as normativity -- but there should be. Current Tank Info: 90 g mixed reef, 40 g 'fuge, T5HO, Simplicity 240DC

01/01/2010, 08:26 PM	#6
Little Lucy 27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: washington Posts: 123	yep....neophyte means new or recently converted..lol...actually I did this hobby for years years ago...it has changed so much that itis a "new" hobby for me, for sure...shoot, I sat on the sump for weeks because I was afraid of it...lol...read and read and read some more...and what I learned is there is no one way to do it. AS a matter of fact I am gonna change it again, tonight. I'm fixing to post a question...does the skimmer skim out copepods?..I searched and can't seem to find the info...maybe you know? Sorry for the hi-jack...Happy New Year __________________ Life is what you make it! I am making mine a reef ;-) If everything in your fish room hasn't gotten wet you aren't doing it right Current Tank Info: 75 gallon with 18 gallon sump

01/01/2010, 09:47 PM	#8
noahm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,736	Interesting. I have never used a sock, but may try one just to see if it affects my skimmate production. I am wondering if it traps oils or something else that might affect bubble formation as mentioned before.

01/01/2010, 09:53 PM	#10
noahm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,736	I'm thinking oils from food actually. .... Like big mac's and the like jk fish food.

01/01/2010, 10:33 PM	#12
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	When I remove the filter sock from my sump, the skimmer quits also. I finally figured out that it allowed bubbles to be picked up by the skimmer input pump. This not only reduced the water volume some but also caused larger bubbles to be formed in the skimmer. These bubbles rise quickly and break the foam in the drying tube.