Quarintine tank problems

[reefyredfish]

I bought a flame angel and a pink spot goby 12 days ago. That's
how long they've been in my 10 g q tank. They were both in perfect
health and eating on day 1. Day 2-3 the angel showed signs of ich (couple spots). So I immediately started to treat with Seachem Cupramine. It's been
9-10 days and now the fins on the flame are deteriorated a bit and he's being
a very picky eater and also showing more ich. The goby eats good but trashes around sometimes. Ihave not tested the copper because the copper test I have is for "copper"NOT "cupramine" which reads different. However I did go exactly by the directions for drops per gallon. Water is good and is from my main tank. Not sure what to do. I'm thinking of removing cupramine with
carbon and changing water. Any suggestions is much appreciated.
Thanks a ton!

[wooden_reefer]

How are you removing the ammonia in QT?

[reefyredfish]

I'm changing 1 gallon every week. Should I do more or something else?

[phuzzykins]

IMHO, a 10% weekly water change is probably not enough for a quarantine tank with little to no biological filtration.

Test for ammonia ASAP. I use the Jungle quick dip ammonia test strips, which make it easy for me to test daily if I'm running an uncycled quarantine tank.

[reefyredfish]

Will do. I'll run out today and get an ammonia test. However with the correct
amount of cupramine how is it possible for the ich to be present? Also the goby
seems fine.?

[reefyredfish]

Just thinking after reading some other similar posts. Should I pull a sponge
off my display tank and put in the treatment tank? Won't the cupramine just kil bacteria? I also read about using Stability. Nver used this product. Can I just start adding it, assuming I find it?

[wooden_reefer]

In the future, make sure that the medium for the QT has been cycled very well in advance.

Now, if your DT is large, well-stocked and a little dirty, you can try to rob some bacteria from it. You can run a filter with sponges or polyester floss to trip particles that house bacteria.

QT without enough nitrification need high percentage and frequent WC.

Amquel or Prime is sometimes an alternative or an addition. It depends on whether you can use it with certain drugs.

[reefyredfish]

Alright I went out and got the Jungle test strips. Yep the amonia was 3.0.
I did 3 gal water change. and it came down to around 1.5. I took a 4x4 sponge
from display tank and set it right in there. I checked a couple hours later and
no different still 1.5. I'll check tomorrow and do another 3 gal wc. Flame
still not eating and fins are bad. Goby eating and looking good. Any thoughts?

[jimrawr]

I would use something like Amquel right away to get your ammonia down to zero

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by jimrawr

I would use something like Amquel right away to get your ammonia down to zero

NOT IF YOU ARE USING COPPER....

adding an ammonia binding agent will turn the copper real deadly....\\

Water changes and bacteria in a bottle are your only choices.

[LargeAngels]

Many ammonia test kits will get false positives if there is Cupramine in the tank. Use Seachem's ammonia kit or buy Seachem's ammonia badge that continously monitors ammonia.

Amquel combined with Cupramine will turn the CU+2 into CU+, which is 10x more deadly. Standard copper meds will not do this.

Try doing a FW dip. Your fish may also have flukes. Do the FW dip in a clear container. If there are flukes you will see them on the bottom.

[reefyredfish]

I changed another 3 g this morning. And with the sponge in there the amonia is .75.
Can i do another 3 gallon water change tonite or is that to much? Seachem says cupramine takes care of flukes as well. should i still do dip. He's already stressed out with fins still looking bad and no eat. goby is eat and looks good.

[LargeAngels]

I have found that Cupramine does not affect the most common monogene flukes.

Test your ammonia kit to see if it is reading the Cupramine or ammonia. Test some fresh made saltwater and then add Cupramine to that water and test again. If the second reading shows ammonia you are probably getting false readings.

I would do a dip to see if anything falls off.

[reefyredfish]

sounds good. Do you think two 3 gallon water changes in one day is too much?
How much is too much?

[LargeAngels]

Some people do close to 100% water changes. As long as the water parameters (temp. salinity, etc.) are the same it shouldn't be an issue as long as it doesn't stress the fish too much.

[Jagarang]

Are you adjusting your dosing for the % of water changes your doing?

If you keep treating for 10 gallons but only replace 1,2, or 3g then your residual treatment will build up and youd be ODing.??

Just an idea, I'm a noob, and haven't even had my first tank yet.

[reefyredfish]

Funny you should mention that. I contacted Seachem and since you dose cupramine at 2 drops per gallon wait 48 hrs then repeat that's a total of 4 drops per g. But when change water they say you should only redose new water at 2 drops per gallon. Half of what one would think. So I've done 2 wc's with double dose. Nice to know these things in advance. Also they said to treat know more than 14 days. So thats where Im at 14 days. I've started running carbon to remove cupramine and did another 3 g water change with no cupramine. And I started adding Stability. I tested amonia again after and its at or below .5. BTW does anyone know if assuming I can save this these fish if a major stresser like this reduces life accpectancy? Thanks

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by reefyredfish

Funny you should mention that. I contacted Seachem and since you dose cupramine at 2 drops per gallon wait 48 hrs then repeat that's a total of 4 drops per g. But when change water they say you should only redose new water at 2 drops per gallon. Half of what one would think. So I've done 2 wc's with double dose. Nice to know these things in advance. Also they said to treat know more than 14 days. So thats where Im at 14 days. I've started running carbon to remove cupramine and did another 3 g water change with no cupramine. And I started adding Stability. I tested amonia again after and its at or below .5. BTW does anyone know if assuming I can save this these fish if a major stresser like this reduces life accpectancy? Thanks

That advice from Seachem was not correct. THink about it. If your total dose to get you to .5 is four drops in regular seawater why would you not need the same amount in replacement seawater. You want the water your putting back in the tank to match the tank. Call Seachem back and ask to talk to Amanda tell her Bill told you to call....
Treatment for Cupramine should be 4 weeks.....Like I said call Amanda.
I would make sure you are testing before and after adding anything.

[reefyredfish]

I know it didn't make sense. In fact I've been adding 4 drops then I talked to them. I did talk to a woman. Didnt catch her name. I'll call back, but like i said i'm done for now with cupramine until i get the right test kit and concentrating on ridding tank of amonia and getting fish in good water. i need to see improvement in angel and get him to eat. they're going to be in the q tank for a lot longer than 14 days.

[RBU1]

Focus on water quality but large water changes and adding bacteria in a bottle. I have had what seems to be good luck with microblift special blend. Some say those bacteria in a bottle don't work but I can't say anything negative about my results with it. Good Luck to you.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by LargeAngels

Some people do close to 100% water changes. As long as the water parameters (temp. salinity, etc.) are the same it shouldn't be an issue as long as it doesn't stress the fish too much.

I do 100% WC sometimes when I have to use a antibiotic against bacterial infection that harms nitrification bacteria.

I do it less often now because I tend more to use an antibiotics that harms nitrification bacteria less.

[KingwoodMarcia]

I would not use water from your tank when treating. Use RO water from the store or your own. Just watch your PH.