Skimmer without ATO

JW3571 · 12/11/2010, 08:10 AM

Do you guys recommend buying a skimmer if you can't have an ATO? From reading on here it sounds any skimmer that's in your sump is extremely sensitive to water level. I have to put about 6 quarts/day. I'd really like a skimmer but a ATO just won't work in my system.

Jeff · 12/11/2010, 08:29 AM

Some skimmers are better then others for an inconsistant water level. I had a Tunze Master Doc 9440 when I had my big tank and it self-leveled. Most skimmers will loose their foam head or overflow otherwise.

Rich1427 · 12/11/2010, 08:38 AM

your skimmer should be in a chamber where the water level doesn't change your return pump should have its own chamber where it rises and lowers by itself but an ATO is highly recommended to keep salinity in check

Misled · 12/11/2010, 08:40 AM

Use baffles to control the level in the skimmer compartment.

willy7499 · 12/11/2010, 09:47 AM

Use baffles as Misled said and have a large return pump section that can handle the evaporation between manual top offs.

JW3571 · 12/13/2010, 11:57 PM

I guess I don't understand how the water level affects the skimmer. As long as their is enougH water that the pump can run, how does it overflow or lose its bubbles

JW3571 · 12/14/2010, 02:52 PM

Anyone?

willy7499 · 12/14/2010, 04:29 PM

I believe that it has to do with the differential pressure. Let's say that your skimmer is tuned to maintain a water level internally 12" above the water it is sitting in. If the water it is sitting in decreases by 1", the pump/output valve on the skimmer still wants to only maintain the 12" differential, thereby reducing the level in the skimmer. This would cause the skimmer to go out of tune and the water/bubble interface to change. Different designs in the skimmer and the pumps will make the overall unit more or less tolerant of the changes.

This is a simplified definition but explains the point.

JW3571 · 12/14/2010, 10:09 PM

That helps me understand it a little more. Maybe I just won't be able to have a skimmer.

The Punisher · 12/15/2010, 12:11 AM

How is your sump set up? A lot of sumps are built with a skimmer section that has a constant water level. The return section of the sump is the area where you'll have fluctuating water level. I'm just curious but why can't you go with an ATO?

sirreal63 · 12/15/2010, 10:02 AM

You could also use a recirculating skimmer, they are not sensitive to fluctuating water level.

JW3571 · 12/16/2010, 10:16 PM

I have a 3 chamber sump. The first one is the where the water comes down from the overflow, 2nd is the fuge, and 3rd is the return where I have a submersible pump. I do have room in the return section but I don't think i have any room for an ato and i have no where to put a container.

What is a recirculating skimmer? How do they work?

tkeracer619 · 12/16/2010, 10:33 PM

You can absolutely have an ATO.

All you need is a float valve and some small container mounted inside the stand. Gravity fed. It is pretty simple. Posting a pic will give us something to work with.

Skimmers require constant level because of head pressure and ease of pulling in air. As the water level changes the flow of water through the pump changes.

You can use an external skimmer but they also will fluctuate with different water levels. Not as much because air is not a factor but it still does effect it.

One way to get around this issue without an ATO is to feed the skimmer via your drain. You use a recirculating skimmer in your first chamber and run 100% of your drain into the input.

The Punisher · 12/17/2010, 01:07 AM

If your sump is set up like most then the section that your tank drains into will have a constant water level. You'll put the skimmer in this section so the ATO won't be necessary or really do anything as far as the skimmer is concerned. ATOs are nice to have though and don't take up much room at all.

JW3571 · 12/20/2010, 10:23 PM

Here's a pic of my sump setup.

JW3571 · 12/21/2010, 02:03 PM

Anyone?

mojo~ · 12/21/2010, 03:42 PM

Honeslty, I would pull out the fuge and put the skimmer there. the skimmer, IMO, would be more important to run than a fuge. Unless you can run a large fuge it really isnt that great of a benefit. I havent run a fuge in years. Only a filter sock, gfo, carbon and a skimmer.

The Punisher · 12/21/2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo~

Honeslty, I would pull out the fuge and put the skimmer there. the skimmer, IMO, would be more important to run than a fuge. Unless you can run a large fuge it really isnt that great of a benefit. I havent run a fuge in years. Only a filter sock, gfo, carbon and a skimmer.

I agree with this. I just built my sump and went with a skimmer section and a return section, no fuge. It's a 40 breeder and I don't think I could have squeezed enough room out of it for a very effective fuge. My DT is a 120.

JW3571 · 12/21/2010, 09:34 PM

I'd really like to keep the fuge since i've just set it up. If I can figure a way out to do an ATO could I put the skimmer in the return section

andresp · 01/20/2011, 06:51 PM

For a successful reef tank you definitely need a skimmer.

moondoggy4 · 01/20/2011, 07:27 PM

How big is the tank? How about putting a HOB skimmer on it.

12/11/2010, 08:10 AM	#1
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	Skimmer without ATO Do you guys recommend buying a skimmer if you can't have an ATO? From reading on here it sounds any skimmer that's in your sump is extremely sensitive to water level. I have to put about 6 quarts/day. I'd really like a skimmer but a ATO just won't work in my system.

12/11/2010, 08:29 AM	#2
Jeff Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 11,907	Some skimmers are better then others for an inconsistant water level. I had a Tunze Master Doc 9440 when I had my big tank and it self-leveled. Most skimmers will loose their foam head or overflow otherwise. __________________ Always remember.... any time you reef, you also reef with every reefer that reefer has reefed with. Mitch 2/18/10 IWNFT343F Current Tank Info: Innovative Marine 20

12/11/2010, 08:40 AM	#4
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Use baffles to control the level in the skimmer compartment. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

12/11/2010, 09:47 AM	#5
willy7499 Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 63	Use baffles as Misled said and have a large return pump section that can handle the evaporation between manual top offs. __________________ Current Tank Info: 120RR Main, ADHI sump, 2-Radion LED. ATB 840 V2.0 Skimmer, Eheim 1262 Return, 2-MP40esw, Neptune Apex Controller, Homemade Calcium Reactor with AquariumPlants Carbon Doser Regulat

12/14/2010, 04:29 PM	#8
willy7499 Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 63	I believe that it has to do with the differential pressure. Let's say that your skimmer is tuned to maintain a water level internally 12" above the water it is sitting in. If the water it is sitting in decreases by 1", the pump/output valve on the skimmer still wants to only maintain the 12" differential, thereby reducing the level in the skimmer. This would cause the skimmer to go out of tune and the water/bubble interface to change. Different designs in the skimmer and the pumps will make the overall unit more or less tolerant of the changes. This is a simplified definition but explains the point. __________________ Current Tank Info: 120RR Main, ADHI sump, 2-Radion LED. ATB 840 V2.0 Skimmer, Eheim 1262 Return, 2-MP40esw, Neptune Apex Controller, Homemade Calcium Reactor with AquariumPlants Carbon Doser Regulat

12/11/2010, 08:38 AM	#3
Rich1427 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Annville,Pa Posts: 155	your skimmer should be in a chamber where the water level doesn't change your return pump should have its own chamber where it rises and lowers by itself but an ATO is highly recommended to keep salinity in check

12/13/2010, 11:57 PM	#6
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	I guess I don't understand how the water level affects the skimmer. As long as their is enougH water that the pump can run, how does it overflow or lose its bubbles

12/14/2010, 02:52 PM	#7
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	Anyone?

12/14/2010, 10:09 PM	#9
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	That helps me understand it a little more. Maybe I just won't be able to have a skimmer.

12/15/2010, 12:11 AM	#10
The Punisher Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,398	How is your sump set up? A lot of sumps are built with a skimmer section that has a constant water level. The return section of the sump is the area where you'll have fluctuating water level. I'm just curious but why can't you go with an ATO? __________________ "I look for absolutes and there are absolutely none." 311

12/15/2010, 10:02 AM	#11
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	You could also use a recirculating skimmer, they are not sensitive to fluctuating water level. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

12/16/2010, 10:16 PM	#12
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	I have a 3 chamber sump. The first one is the where the water comes down from the overflow, 2nd is the fuge, and 3rd is the return where I have a submersible pump. I do have room in the return section but I don't think i have any room for an ato and i have no where to put a container. What is a recirculating skimmer? How do they work?

12/16/2010, 10:33 PM	#13
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	You can absolutely have an ATO. All you need is a float valve and some small container mounted inside the stand. Gravity fed. It is pretty simple. Posting a pic will give us something to work with. Skimmers require constant level because of head pressure and ease of pulling in air. As the water level changes the flow of water through the pump changes. You can use an external skimmer but they also will fluctuate with different water levels. Not as much because air is not a factor but it still does effect it. One way to get around this issue without an ATO is to feed the skimmer via your drain. You use a recirculating skimmer in your first chamber and run 100% of your drain into the input. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. Last edited by tkeracer619; 12/16/2010 at 10:39 PM.

12/17/2010, 01:07 AM	#14
The Punisher Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,398	If your sump is set up like most then the section that your tank drains into will have a constant water level. You'll put the skimmer in this section so the ATO won't be necessary or really do anything as far as the skimmer is concerned. ATOs are nice to have though and don't take up much room at all. __________________ "I look for absolutes and there are absolutely none." 311

12/21/2010, 02:03 PM	#16
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	Anyone?

12/21/2010, 03:42 PM	#17
mojo~ Skimmer Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: IN Posts: 5,647	Honeslty, I would pull out the fuge and put the skimmer there. the skimmer, IMO, would be more important to run than a fuge. Unless you can run a large fuge it really isnt that great of a benefit. I havent run a fuge in years. Only a filter sock, gfo, carbon and a skimmer. __________________ Mojo~

12/21/2010, 09:34 PM	#19
JW3571 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 198	I'd really like to keep the fuge since i've just set it up. If I can figure a way out to do an ATO could I put the skimmer in the return section

01/20/2011, 06:51 PM	#20
andresp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: HOLLYWOOD, FL Posts: 95	For a successful reef tank you definitely need a skimmer.

01/20/2011, 07:27 PM	#21
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	How big is the tank? How about putting a HOB skimmer on it.

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