Can u put a ball valve on one side of a dual HOB overflow?

[southernfish]

I have a 100gal mixed reef. Since I've set this tank up I've needed to upgrade the overflow box. I got a new Psk 200 eshopps skimmer for Christmas and my 20 long sump/refugium is too small for the skimmer as it is setup now. My sump works as follows....water comes into the sump from overflow to skimmer section then fuge then return area.

I've decided to just build another sump/fuge from a standard 55gal tank. I want to do the sump where the fuge is on one end, the skimmer on the other and the return in the middle. To go along with this new setup I am looking at the eshopps pf 1000 dual overflow. My question is can I put a ball valve on the line I will have overflowing into the fuge to control flow rate in that area with out it affecting the operation of the whole overflow/return system? Or for short will doing this cause any probe what so ever?

[JR719]

Sure you can put a ball valve on if you have room. Adjust the flow as needed.

[southernfish]

Sounds good, I was just wondering if it would mess with the siphon/operation if I ball valved just one drain line.

[RyanSweatt2004]

sounds like a bad idea to me, I wouldn't restrict the flow. I would divide it with a tee and put a ball valve on the side of the tee going to your fuge. That way you know your getting as much flow as possible and still diverting some to your fuge. If your overflow box is matched to the GPH capacity of your pump then its likely your pump will over flow your tank if you restrict the overflow dump. I have a mag 18 pushing my eshopps 1000 overflow and it would have no problem overflowing my tank if the box had restricted flow. At least this way you could have the full flow capacity and still control flow through your fuge.

[southernfish]

Yeah I was thinking more of keeping from overflowing the tank and keeping as much gph. so just tee off that one drain line to the fuge and plumb the rest back over to the skimmer section, so as to utilize all the flow from that one line rather than restricting it as a whole?

[RyanSweatt2004]

Basically you will have either two pipes or two hoses dumping water from your overflow box. You wouldn't want to restrict the flow out of the overflow without restricting the incoming flow from the pump. If you have too little flow through these overflow boxes bubbles will build up in the u-tube and the siphon will break and you'll have a mess. Take the end of one overflow hose or pipe however you have it plumbed, and slip or glue on a tee, then plumb one side of the tee with a ball valve into your fuge so you can adjust flow as needed. Now, take and plum the other side of the tee back to where your over flow normally dumps in your sump. This way you can maximize water flow to your tank and still divide it to direct some water to your fuge.

[Jeremy B.]

You can restrict one of the bulkheads as much as you want, just as long as the amount of water flow from the return pump does not over power the other bulkhead by itself.

For argument sake, let's say each 1" bulkhead will drain 500gph, giving you a total of 1000gph total drain capacity. If you restrict one bulkhead to where it's only flowing 200gph max, then the overall gph from your return pump can not be more than 700gph max. If the max is more than 700gph it's not the actual tank that will overflow, as your j-tubes will still pull out 1000gph, but the back overflow box where the bulkheads are will overflow, since that is where the restriction is. Your j-tubes will only pull out as much as what your return pump puts back into the tank, no more / no less (given that it's still under the max capacity).

At any rate, you shouldn't have any problems restrict one just as long as you're smart about it. In all reality, each 1" bulkhead will do right at 600gph, but to be safe I would count on 500gph for "margin of error". HTH!

[jcw]

I've got ball valves on all three of the pipes from the 2 siphon overflows (2 on one, 1 on the other).

It doesn't mess up the siphon. The design of the overflow is pretty much fool proof.

It does quiet the loud gurgling without the ball valves and without the internal pipe and sponge.

As mentioned above the only way to mess things up is if the return pump (or two pumps in my case) return more than the restricted overflows.

I wired up a basement sump float switch to turn the pump off if the level in the sump falls too low. 1) to save the pumps from running dry and 2) to prevent overflow in the DT.

So far so good...

[BeanAnimal]

JCW

Restricting a siphon via valves to match the rate of a return pump is asking for a flood.

Secondly, your float switch will not work as planned. If the water level in the sump drops and the switch opens, the return pump will stop. When this happens the water will drain from the plumbing and raise the water in the sump and that will in turn close the float switch, turning on the pump. The pump will fill the plumbing, lowering the water level in the sump and open the switch. This cycle will repeat until enough water evaporates to breaks the cycle or the return pump dies from the repeated hard starts.

[southernfish]

Originally Posted by Jeremy B.

You can restrict one of the bulkheads as much as you want, just as long as the amount of water flow from the return pump does not over power the other bulkhead by itself.

For argument sake, let's say each 1" bulkhead will drain 500gph, giving you a total of 1000gph total drain capacity. If you restrict one bulkhead to where it's only flowing 200gph max, then the overall gph from your return pump can not be more than 700gph max. If the max is more than 700gph it's not the actual tank that will overflow, as your j-tubes will still pull out 1000gph, but the back overflow box where the bulkheads are will overflow, since that is where the restriction is. Your j-tubes will only pull out as much as what your return pump puts back into the tank, no more / no less (given that it's still under the max capacity).

At any rate, you shouldn't have any problems restrict one just as long as you're smart about it. In all reality, each 1" bulkhead will do right at 600gph, but to be safe I would count on 500gph for "margin of error". HTH!

Right, that's what I was thinking. Getting it all together, playing with it and finding the sweet spot. Thanks

[jcw]

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

JCW

Restricting a siphon via valves to match the rate of a return pump is asking for a flood.

Not if there's not enough water in the sump to overflow the DT before the pumps become uncovered or the float cuts off power.

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

Secondly, your float switch will not work as planned. If the water level in the sump drops and the switch opens, the return pump will stop. When this happens the water will drain from the plumbing and raise the water in the sump and that will in turn close the float switch, turning on the pump. The pump will fill the plumbing, lowering the water level in the sump and open the switch. This cycle will repeat until enough water evaporates to breaks the cycle or the return pump dies from the repeated hard starts.

Actually, that's exactly as planned. If a pump does burn out, there is an overflow drain on the sump that drains into the basement sump. It's what I pay for not drilling my tank.

[bayoupr]

I have a dual lifereef overflow and put ball valves on both hoses with no problems. If your pump chamber is seperate from the rest of the sump and water falls over into it you should not flood your tank unless you are running your sump level much higher the the divider. If my overflow ever got blocked the only thing I can put back into my tank is whats in a 11 x 6 x 6 pump chamber. After that my pump runs dry.

[tkeracer619]

The Eshopp overflows are pretty poor IME. I had the 1000gph one and threw it in the trash a long time ago.

It leaked from the start and their CS told me to put silicone on it. LOL

There was a design flaw that caused the overflow to not drain properly. It would never hold 1000gph and since it couldn't flow that much water the U-tubes built up air bubbles and at least once a month the thing would fail.

Do yourself a HUGE favor.

1) Get a lifereef overflow box and an in tank single ATO float from www.autotopoff.com. Place this in the display so that it does not activate the float under normal conditions and plug your return pump into this. If there is a failure and the tank starts to overflow the float switch is activated and shuts down your return saving your tank and your floor. NO HOB overflow should be without this setup. Period.

You should never use ball valves on drains. If somehow a snail gets in the plumbing once it gets to the ball valve it will clog the drain. Drains should stay the same size or increase as they go down stream. There are only a few cases where a ball valve would be acceptable.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally Posted by jcw

Not if there's not enough water in the sump to overflow the DT before the pumps become uncovered or the float cuts off power.

Sure, but then you have no evaporation capacity in the sump.

Actually, that's exactly as planned. If a pump does burn out, there is an overflow drain on the sump that drains into the basement sump. It's what I pay for not drilling my tank.

You have a float switch to protect the pump from running dry that will kill the pump anyway

A simple latching circuit can be used to turn off the pump and and keep it off until it is reset manually.

[jcw]

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

Sure, but then you have no evaporation capacity in the sump..

There seems to be plenty, for me at least. It's not a system on the razor's edge. I can add or subtract at least a gallon from the sump and the levels are still stable.

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

You have a float switch to protect the pump from running dry that will kill the pump anyway

A simple latching circuit can be used to turn off the pump and and keep it off until it is reset manually.

This is a failsafe condition that is not encountered on a daily or weekly basis if ever. If and when it does happen, the racket the siphons make hopefully will signal me to address the issue. The pump won't burn out immediately. But it will save the pumps from running dry which would cause damage quicker.

Agreed with the latching mechanism.

I'm not an expert(like you). I'm not 100% happy with the system (in fact, I was lying awake last night worrying and thinking about it), but I'm working with it.

[bayoupr]

You should never use ball valves on drains. If somehow a snail gets in the plumbing once it gets to the ball valve it will clog the drain. Drains should stay the same size or increase as they go down stream. There are only a few cases where a ball valve would be acceptable.

I have two strainers in my life reef so I don't worry about snails. Been running like this for over a year with zero problems.