Clam HELP - possible PM?

MandarinFan · 04/28/2012, 02:56 PM

Hi All-

My boyfriend and I have a 100 gal reef tank. Besides a few fish (listed below) and soft corals, I love clams. Currently we have 2 small maximas, 2 croceas (had 3 but died last week), and a derasa. Unfortunately last week our 3rd crocea died, it was fine and then 48 hours later was gone. Now one of the remaining croceas is looking bad - with sort of different problems, though.

Last week the color of the clam that is still alive was looking a bit faded in the middle. Then, 2 days ago, the mantle on one side started looking ruffled a bit and it isn't out as far as usual. It's like it's retracting into the shell, and the "mouth" is stretched sideways on that side. The other side is still out and looks great, the clam is sensitive to light and the color that was faded earlier in the week looks OK now.

I just spent 2 hours researching pinched mantle disease, freshwater dips, etc. My boyfriend is very hesitant to do a FWD so I am hoping someone can verify if this clam is sick with PM or something else. I have not seen any worms on the clam, but this particular clam's shell seems to be missing a chunk out of the side (see pic below) that I don't remember seeing before. It is on the same side that is ruffled, but not at the most affected area. This particular clam as been in the tank for 4 months.

Other information that may be useful:
Fish: 1 powder blue tang, 2 chromis, 1 longnose hawkfish, 2 anthias, 1 mandarin dragonet, 1 flame angelfish, 1 maroon clownfish. The tank is in the family room so we observe it constantly, and none of the clams have ever been picked on. The clams all live in the sand bed under metal halides (2 bulbs, each 175W) and blue actinics. I feed them phytofeast 2-3x/week. Occasionally the sifted sand star will knock over one of the smaller maxima clams.

Water parameters:
PH: 8.2
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2 ppm
Phosphate: .53 ppm
Calcium: 480
Alkalinity: 7

Hopefully attached are two photos of the clam. If you need better shots or different angles let me know. I am very worried about the clam so any advice/well wishes are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Liz

thomasp123 · 04/28/2012, 04:28 PM

i had a similar clam problem and it turned out to be old bulbs. I am using t5 and now change them them every 9 months or so.

Faye · 04/28/2012, 04:43 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it was pyramid snails. Lift the clam out of the sand as long as it isn't attached to anything. Look at the foot, if it is covered with pyramid snails (small cones) wipe them off, they are eating your clam. This has happened to me. I'm not sure how to get rid of the snails if they are in the tank. There is a way to get rid of them though.

goochesfish · 04/28/2012, 11:35 PM

I got rid of pyramidalis snails by scrubbing the clam with a toothbrush under running tap water. It took months to rid them but now they're very healthy. Clams are also filter feeders. I've forgotten how many gallons per hour 1 clam can filter but I know that there is a limit to how many can be put in a tank.

Sugar Magnolia · 04/29/2012, 07:02 AM

Another possibility is a polyclad flatworm. They prey on snails and mollusks. You'll want to do some late night observation as they are nocturnal.

MandarinFan · 04/29/2012, 12:35 PM

Thank you for the responses, everyone! They were helpful, but unfortunately the clam did not make it. Here is what happened:

The metal halides and t5 bulbs are 6 months old. After the lights went out last night we looked over the tank with flashlights. Didn't see any pyramid snails or worms, but when prodding the gaping hole on the right side of the clam's mantle we saw a bug! We then did a freshwater dip, and immediately 5 or 6 of those little clear/grey bugs came scrambling out of the inside of the clam. I don't know what kind of bugs they are, but attached some photos of everything with the hope that we could figure out what happened.

I am wondering if something got under the mantle lip of the clam and started eating away at it, and then the bugs moved in to feast on the flesh. Or, if the bugs were the initial invaders. Any ideas? I'm very worried our remaining clams may suffer a similar fate, but since we don't know what caused this to happen I don't know how to prevent it in the future.

We took the clam we lost last week (the one that literally withered away and died within 48 hrs) to the LFS before it died so they could advise us, and they said our water parameters were OK and they had no idea what was killing the clam. When we described how this most recent clam was also not looking good, but had different problems, they had no suggestions either. I don't like not having anything to go off of, and the "that's the way the hobby goes sometimes" excuse in this situation is just turning a blind eye to a serious problem.

Thanks again for any help.

Liz

Before fresh water dip:
clam before FWD.jpg

Bug!
clam bug1.jpg

What are these bugs that were eating the clam?
clam bug2.jpg

The clam this AM:
clam dead next morning.jpg

Poor clam

poor clam.jpg

Whatever it was the ate the clam caused a mighty big hole. If you look back above at the photos from my first and second post, over the last 36 hours the hole on the right increased in size quite rapidly. Any ideas??

Meshmez · 04/29/2012, 01:25 PM

im no clam expert, but those "bugs" appear to be standard pods, and shouldnt be causing issues for the clam. Not sure a freshwater dip helped your situation here...

f3honda4me · 04/29/2012, 01:40 PM

The bug is an amphipod and was not the culprit.

Andrew · 04/29/2012, 02:08 PM

I wouldn't recommend freshwater dipping anything except for fish. The dip probably finished him off and killed him. The bug in the picture is an amphipod and is harmless. Either a lack of water quality or lighting that probably lead to his death.

MandarinFan · 04/29/2012, 03:23 PM

Something caused the clam to start retracting its mantle a few days ago. Good to know it was not the "bugs" I posted above - now identified as harmless amphipods (thanks!) We found the amphipods in the gaping hole, now what caused the gaping hole is the mystery...

The only reason I did the freshwater dip was because I spent several hours reading Reef Central message boards about other sick clams. Several members used them and said they helped their clams. Since the clam was looking so poor last night, I think the dip probably was too late to do anything. It may have stressed it out more, but leaving it alone had gotten it to where it was - with a big gaping hole in its side.

Water quality is very good - we do weekly water changes (15%), and I had my boyfriend get the parameters checked Wednesday at the LFS. We do a home Hanna brand test kit weekly as well. Is there a different test we should do?

Lighting is plentiful - the clams are on the sand bed directly under halides and two 72" long blue actinics. There are several fans and a strong powerhead so water flow is good too.

MarkGP · 04/29/2012, 05:42 PM

Pyramid snails. I have lost a few clams to them over the years and the signs were always the same as yours. They can wipe out as many clams that you have in a tank. You need to check the other clams for them by flipping them over. The snails attack from the bottom and eat the clam from the inside. Sorry for your loss.

Buzzword · 04/29/2012, 06:30 PM

I would have to say that your phosphates are most likely the culprit. If your phosphates are .53 that is way to high, 10x what is considered good level. Phosphates should be around .03ppm. At .53 i would expect that not only your clams are dying but any corals would start to die or have significantly retarded growth.

Buzzword · 04/29/2012, 06:32 PM

A is a bit low as well, you should get that up to between 8-9dKH.

MandarinFan · 04/29/2012, 06:56 PM

Mark - Thank you for your sympathy, we are very upset over our lost clams. How often should I check for pyramid snails? Once a week? Once a month? We just lifted the remaining clams up and inspected them. Only some sand was on their feet, no snails or worms or anything even slightly unusual on their shells.

MandarinFan · 04/29/2012, 07:03 PM

Buzzword - Thank you so much for the info! I just passed your recommendations on to my boyfriend so he can start fixing the water levels. He does all the tank maintenance, I get to watch the tank and provide lots of moral support

Interestingly, the only coral we are only having some trouble with is a spaghetti leather. Everything else looks fantastic and is growing rapidly. *knock on wood*

04/28/2012, 11:35 PM	#4
goochesfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,305	I got rid of pyramidalis snails by scrubbing the clam with a toothbrush under running tap water. It took months to rid them but now they're very healthy. Clams are also filter feeders. I've forgotten how many gallons per hour 1 clam can filter but I know that there is a limit to how many can be put in a tank. __________________ The Gooch, my Beagle, may she RIP 1995-2011 Current Tank Info: 150 gallon Starfire set up July 22,09, 30g QT

04/29/2012, 07:02 AM	#5
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Another possibility is a polyclad flatworm. They prey on snails and mollusks. You'll want to do some late night observation as they are nocturnal. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

04/29/2012, 06:30 PM	#12
Buzzword Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 275	I would have to say that your phosphates are most likely the culprit. If your phosphates are .53 that is way to high, 10x what is considered good level. Phosphates should be around .03ppm. At .53 i would expect that not only your clams are dying but any corals would start to die or have significantly retarded growth. Last edited by Buzzword; 04/29/2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: spelling

04/28/2012, 04:28 PM	#2
thomasp123 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hadley MA Posts: 345	i had a similar clam problem and it turned out to be old bulbs. I am using t5 and now change them them every 9 months or so.

04/28/2012, 04:43 PM	#3
Faye Moved On Join Date: May 2011 Location: PA Posts: 411	I wouldn't be surprised if it was pyramid snails. Lift the clam out of the sand as long as it isn't attached to anything. Look at the foot, if it is covered with pyramid snails (small cones) wipe them off, they are eating your clam. This has happened to me. I'm not sure how to get rid of the snails if they are in the tank. There is a way to get rid of them though.

04/29/2012, 12:35 PM	#6
MandarinFan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Thank you for the responses, everyone! They were helpful, but unfortunately the clam did not make it. Here is what happened: The metal halides and t5 bulbs are 6 months old. After the lights went out last night we looked over the tank with flashlights. Didn't see any pyramid snails or worms, but when prodding the gaping hole on the right side of the clam's mantle we saw a bug! We then did a freshwater dip, and immediately 5 or 6 of those little clear/grey bugs came scrambling out of the inside of the clam. I don't know what kind of bugs they are, but attached some photos of everything with the hope that we could figure out what happened. I am wondering if something got under the mantle lip of the clam and started eating away at it, and then the bugs moved in to feast on the flesh. Or, if the bugs were the initial invaders. Any ideas? I'm very worried our remaining clams may suffer a similar fate, but since we don't know what caused this to happen I don't know how to prevent it in the future. We took the clam we lost last week (the one that literally withered away and died within 48 hrs) to the LFS before it died so they could advise us, and they said our water parameters were OK and they had no idea what was killing the clam. When we described how this most recent clam was also not looking good, but had different problems, they had no suggestions either. I don't like not having anything to go off of, and the "that's the way the hobby goes sometimes" excuse in this situation is just turning a blind eye to a serious problem. Thanks again for any help. Liz Before fresh water dip: clam before FWD.jpg Bug! clam bug1.jpg What are these bugs that were eating the clam? clam bug2.jpg The clam this AM: clam dead next morning.jpg Poor clam poor clam.jpg Whatever it was the ate the clam caused a mighty big hole. If you look back above at the photos from my first and second post, over the last 36 hours the hole on the right increased in size quite rapidly. Any ideas??

04/29/2012, 01:25 PM	#7
Meshmez Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,030	im no clam expert, but those "bugs" appear to be standard pods, and shouldnt be causing issues for the clam. Not sure a freshwater dip helped your situation here...

04/29/2012, 01:40 PM	#8
f3honda4me Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,218	The bug is an amphipod and was not the culprit.

04/29/2012, 02:08 PM	#9
Andrew Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 13,640	I wouldn't recommend freshwater dipping anything except for fish. The dip probably finished him off and killed him. The bug in the picture is an amphipod and is harmless. Either a lack of water quality or lighting that probably lead to his death.

04/29/2012, 03:23 PM	#10
MandarinFan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Something caused the clam to start retracting its mantle a few days ago. Good to know it was not the "bugs" I posted above - now identified as harmless amphipods (thanks!) We found the amphipods in the gaping hole, now what caused the gaping hole is the mystery... The only reason I did the freshwater dip was because I spent several hours reading Reef Central message boards about other sick clams. Several members used them and said they helped their clams. Since the clam was looking so poor last night, I think the dip probably was too late to do anything. It may have stressed it out more, but leaving it alone had gotten it to where it was - with a big gaping hole in its side. Water quality is very good - we do weekly water changes (15%), and I had my boyfriend get the parameters checked Wednesday at the LFS. We do a home Hanna brand test kit weekly as well. Is there a different test we should do? Lighting is plentiful - the clams are on the sand bed directly under halides and two 72" long blue actinics. There are several fans and a strong powerhead so water flow is good too.

04/29/2012, 05:42 PM	#11
MarkGP Why do I do this? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bristol, RI Posts: 1,015	Pyramid snails. I have lost a few clams to them over the years and the signs were always the same as yours. They can wipe out as many clams that you have in a tank. You need to check the other clams for them by flipping them over. The snails attack from the bottom and eat the clam from the inside. Sorry for your loss.

04/29/2012, 06:32 PM	#13
Buzzword Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 275	A is a bit low as well, you should get that up to between 8-9dKH.

04/29/2012, 06:56 PM	#14
MandarinFan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Mark - Thank you for your sympathy, we are very upset over our lost clams. How often should I check for pyramid snails? Once a week? Once a month? We just lifted the remaining clams up and inspected them. Only some sand was on their feet, no snails or worms or anything even slightly unusual on their shells.

04/29/2012, 07:03 PM	#15
MandarinFan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Buzzword - Thank you so much for the info! I just passed your recommendations on to my boyfriend so he can start fixing the water levels. He does all the tank maintenance, I get to watch the tank and provide lots of moral support Interestingly, the only coral we are only having some trouble with is a spaghetti leather. Everything else looks fantastic and is growing rapidly. knock on wood