If Tangs=ICH why bother

[Mudbeaver]

The more i read about it the more i'm leaning towards other fishes than a tangs. Seems to me to be more troubles than its worth. What i see and hear is " years of battle with ICH" " Quanrantine tanks after quanrantine tanks" " Diping drama" None sense treatment" " Loosing your tank to ICH" Very few " the joy of owning a Tangs and its benefits hour" I know that other fish can carry it but the tangs seem to be the most susceptible of them all. They stick like a soar tumb!!! Of all the species they're mentioned the most. I'm doing this big system for the very first time, i don't need this on top of all the new stuff i have to deal with. In any case the Tang will be the last in the tank as i've red he's the last fish i should put in. My tank is a 150 G 6 foot long 24 " wide 21" high.

I plan on having

5- chromis
5 Anthias
1 Geometric Pygmy Hawkfish
2 clowns

[MBC2012]

I (IMHO) think some seem to get lucky or find the right balance for their particular Tang/tank. We sent through 4 before we moved on. It wasn't fair to the fish that we didn't have the special secret. In our new 210 we will start with our Desjardin that seem to be going really well and go from there.

[terrypercula]

Quarantine. Feed properly and give him enough space and you'll be just fine. In my old tank I had tangs with no issues.

[Ambition]

Ich is easily avoided by using a QT tank. IMHO, a QT tank is something that is needed when in the hobby, even if you don't get the "ich magnets".

[mikedoyle]

I have a blonde naso, yellow, and kole yellow eye in my 150 long for almost 2 years without any ich. As long as you qt there should never be an issue.

[Mudbeaver]

I was thinking ;

the Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon) and

Yellow Tang - Hawaii (Zebrasoma flavescens) for color scheme with my anthias and the chromis and both are fairely easy. Any comment on those two choices and their care? I've started my QT as of now before the main tanks arrive. Its a permanent one.

[slief]

Tangs don't necessarily = ich. Certain tangs are much more prone to it though. Personally, I avoid blue tangs (hippo) and the powder blue and powder brown tangs as they are the ones in my experience that are most susceptible to ich. Naso's Vlamingi's, Chevron's, Clown Tangs and many others tend to be much hardyer and less susceptible to ich in my experience. Note that some of the above should be in a pretty large tank. Yellow tangs are one that I never had much luck with. Not because of ich but because most tend to not deal well with the stresses of capture, transport, transplant etc.

So to recap, I am of the opinion that you should avoid the hippo's and powders if you are really concerned about ich. Sure QT may help but if there are any traces of ich in your system or fish in any stage of it's cycle, those 3 canditates could end up with it if stressed or if you experience a fast temp swing. Keep in mind that just because you cant see the ich parasite doesn't mean it's not in there. I had my tank stable and ich free for more than 10 years and temp swing as a result of a large water change was all it took and the powder blues were the first to show the parasite. As for the yellow tangs, I don't bother with them because I don't like spending money on things that just never seemed to last in my tanks.

[Jeff000]

I have a few tangs in my 330g. The newest additions will show signs of ich for a week or two. But if your tank is healthy ich is not a concern.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by Jeff000

I have a few tangs in my 330g. The newest additions will show signs of ich for a week or two. But if your tank is healthy ich is not a concern.

The healthiest tank isn't healthy if it it has ich; even if the ich isn't seen at the time. If your DT doesn't have ich and you properly quarantine everything, ich will never be a problem. I have 1000 gals of DTs and many tangs and I haven't seen ich in many, many years. Of course, I had to tear apart a big, infested tank before I listened to people who knew what would happen.

[Mudbeaver]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

The healthiest tank isn't healthy if it it has ich; even if the ich isn't seen at the time. If your DT doesn't have ich and you properly quarantine everything, ich will never be a problem. I have 1000 gals of DTs and many tangs and I haven't seen ich in many, many years. Of course, I had to tear apart a big, infested tank before I listened to people who knew what would happen.

Thanks , thats why i've set up my QT now, i can wait 4 weeks so can the fish. I'm sure what to during these 4 weeks its one fish at a time right? but when they say put all your fish at the same time what do you do. My QT is 20 G . My tangs wont be the first anyway. My anthias, and then clowns.

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

The healthiest tank isn't healthy if it it has ich; even if the ich isn't seen at the time. If your DT doesn't have ich and you properly quarantine everything, ich will never be a problem. I have 1000 gals of DTs and many tangs and I haven't seen ich in many, many years. Of course, I had to tear apart a big, infested tank before I listened to people who knew what would happen.

So the ocean isn't healthy? No signs of ich is healthy.
Like I said said new additions will sometimes show ich, but then never again.
I'd rather not stress out a 600$ 9" angel in a small tank to fix a problem that isn't a problem.

[Palting]

Nah, I hate tangs. Just to show how much I hate them, I have a purple tang, a naso tang, a hippo tang, and a tennenti tang. LOL!!

As mentioned by MrTuskfish, a healthy tank is a tank without Ich. Whether you have tangs or not is immaterial. Practice good QT, treat prophylactically if you want to. I do. Easy enough to have an Ich-free tank, IMO.

As to why have tangs at all, the naso is my favorite fish due to personality. He is like a dog wagging it's tail, eager to please. He does all kinds of acrobatics to earn his keep, and he eats out of my fingers. If you want practical reasons, tangs are the most avid algae lawnmowers. No pesky algae, macro or otherwise, can survive in my tank of 4 tangs. Plus, I think they look pretty!

[Sonyardo]

I don't think that ICH has anything to do with whether or not you should put Tangs in your tank.

[Mudbeaver]

Originally Posted by Palting

Nah, I hate tangs. Just to show how much I hate them, I have a purple tang, a naso tang, a hippo tang, and a tennenti tang. LOL!!

As mentioned by MrTuskfish, a healthy tank is a tank without Ich. Whether you have tangs or not is immaterial. Practice good QT, treat prophylactically if you want to. I do. Easy enough to have an Ich-free tank, IMO.

As to why have tangs at all, the naso is my favorite fish due to personality. He is like a dog wagging it's tail, eager to please. He does all kinds of acrobatics to earn his keep, and he eats out of my fingers. If you want practical reasons, tangs are the most avid algae lawnmowers. No pesky algae, macro or otherwise, can survive in my tank of 4 tangs. Plus, I think they look pretty!

I want to make a mixed tank with some macro-algae do they eat all macro-algae, surely not the Halimeda or the Pencil Cap. If i wanted to grow some algae for a year before i put the tang in would he totally eradicate the whole bunch of leave a balance to nibble on? What would a good two choice i think 2 is enough for my tank size and the other tank mates involve. The yellow seem easy...

[Palting]

Originally Posted by Mudbeaver

I want to make a mixed tank with some macro-algae do they eat all macro-algae, surely not the Halimeda or the Pencil Cap. If i wanted to grow some algae for a year before i put the tang in would he totally eradicate the whole bunch of leave a balance to nibble on?

That's why I said "pesky" algae. I myself have Halimeda in the DT. I think Halimeda is "decorative" algae . Obviously you do, too, right? Halimeda is calcareous and does consume quite a bit of the alk/cal. Also, this apparently makes it "bitter" to the tangs so they don't eat it. Or so I read, anyway, never having tasted it . Caulerpa, bryopsis, GHA, gracilaria...forget it, they will decimate it.

[thelostrican]

Originally Posted by Mudbeaver

Thanks , thats why i've set up my QT now, i can wait 4 weeks so can the fish. I'm sure what to during these 4 weeks its one fish at a time right? but when they say put all your fish at the same time what do you do. My QT is 20 G . My tangs wont be the first anyway. My anthias, and then clowns.

Well if you would have started with qt from the beg, you could have done it one at a time....
So your doing 4 weeks? 4 weeks of what? If all your doing is observation, your truly setting yourself to fail...
I do 2 rounds of prazi, and 4 to 6 weeks of copper...
Any fish that goes to my dt goes thru copper and prazi, and they don't get to the dt until I have observe them for 2 to 4 weeks after treatment...I get them fat in my qt, there is no competition, they get to see me everyday, and loose the fear..
When they get to the dt, they are not scared of me, so all they have to deal with are the rest of the fish, they know what and when i feed.



And you know what my mortality rate its almost 0... After I get them to eat in my qt

[iwishtofish]

Originally Posted by Jeff000

So the ocean isn't healthy? No signs of ich is healthy.
Like I said said new additions will sometimes show ich, but then never again.
I'd rather not stress out a 600$ 9" angel in a small tank to fix a problem that isn't a problem.

The difference, I think, between the two comparisons is that fish in the ocean don't necessarily have the constant exposure to the parasite like those in an infected tank. The parasite can drop off a fish in the wild, and the fish can move on (in some cases, of course).

But, this is perhaps the biggest subject of contention in the hobby, don't you think? I believe you are right, though, that healthy fish will fare better in an infected tank. I wonder what I'd prefer as a new, captive fish - ich in my gills all the time, or a period of high-stress early on? I certainly can't answer that one...

[Mudbeaver]

Originally Posted by thelostrican

Well if you would have started with qt from the beg, you could have done it one at a time....
So your doing 4 weeks? 4 weeks of what? If all your doing is observation, your truly setting yourself to fail...
I do 2 rounds of prazi, and 4 to 6 weeks of copper...
Any fish that goes to my dt goes thru copper and prazi, and they don't get to the dt until I have observe them for 2 to 4 weeks after treatment...I get them fat in my qt, there is no competition, they get to see me everyday, and loose the fear..
When they get to the dt, they are not scared of me, so all they have to deal with are the rest of the fish, they know what and when i feed.



And you know what my mortality rate its almost 0... After I get them to eat in my qt

You should read my post again i've started my Qt well before my main tanks are started so its cycled, and ready to receive my first fishes, i was wondering what happens when they say put all these fish in one shot... that was my question. Do i quarentine them all at the same time example the chromis. do you have a helpfull answer?

[Mudbeaver]

Originally Posted by Palting

That's why I said "pesky" algae. I myself have Halimeda in the DT. I think Halimeda is "decorative" algae . Obviously you do, too, right? Halimeda is calcareous and does consume quite a bit of the alk/cal. Also, this apparently makes it "bitter" to the tangs so they don't eat it. Or so I read, anyway, never having tasted it . Caulerpa, bryopsis, GHA, gracilaria...forget it, they will decimate it.

Thats cool i could seed my tank with caulerpa for a year to welcome the new tang in his new home that should eleviate his stress on arrival. My refugium will contain some of it, which is the most dangerous again, the fern or the grape?

[BossHoggin]

grape

[wrxreefer823]

It's all up to you and how much care you take while introducing said Tang(s) to you system. As others have said, and I'm sure more will tell you, make sure you QT them and keep your water quality up. There's no special secret to owning one of these beautiful creatures at all. Not that I would ever tell someone to go out and do this, but I had three (yes, three) Tangs in my 75g before I broke it down. A Powder Blue, Hippo, and Yellow. They all got along great, ate like pigs, and never showed any signs of ich. Just my two cents.

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by iwishtofish

The difference, I think, between the two comparisons is that fish in the ocean don't necessarily have the constant exposure to the parasite like those in an infected tank. The parasite can drop off a fish in the wild, and the fish can move on (in some cases, of course).

But, this is perhaps the biggest subject of contention in the hobby, don't you think? I believe you are right, though, that healthy fish will fare better in an infected tank. I wonder what I'd prefer as a new, captive fish - ich in my gills all the time, or a period of high-stress early on? I certainly can't answer that one...

Keep in mind that ich in a tank after about 11 months is basically an ich free tank as they can't go through that many life cycles and stay effective.
And the visible stage is I think the pregnancy stage (for lack of knowing the exact name). Healthy fish can fight off ich.

Yes this is a debate that has no clear winner.
I've never lost a fish to ich. There are also lots of fish that would never survive a qt.


Edit. I have a yellow tang, purple tang, sailfin tang, chevron tang, blonde naso tang. And they are all looking great.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by Jeff000

So the ocean isn't healthy? No signs of ich is healthy.
Like I said said new additions will sometimes show ich, but then never again.
I'd rather not stress out a 600$ 9" angel in a small tank to fix a problem that isn't a problem.

The reason ich isn't deadly to fish in the wild should be obvious, the sheer volume of water. If you don't have a tank big enough for a 9" angel, get a bigger QT. If new additions show ich: either it isn't ich, or it will be back.

[Ambition]

Originally Posted by Jeff000

Keep in mind that ich in a tank after about 11 months is basically an ich free tank as they can't go through that many life cycles and stay effective.
And the visible stage is I think the pregnancy stage (for lack of knowing the exact name). Healthy fish can fight off ich.

Yes this is a debate that has no clear winner.
I've never lost a fish to ich. There are also lots of fish that would never survive a qt.


Edit. I have a yellow tang, purple tang, sailfin tang, chevron tang, blonde naso tang. And they are all looking great.

Once a tank has ich, it has ich until something is done to rid the tank of it. The information your logic off of isn't right. The stage of ich that is visible on the fish is not the reproductive stage, it is the feeding stage where it eats cells and tissue from the fish. Also, ich can go through as many life cycles as long as all of its needs are met. 11 months means nothing. As long as a parasite has a host fish and water, the life cycle will continue.

[Mudbeaver]

Originally Posted by Ambition

Once a tank has ich, it has ich until something is done to rid the tank of it. The information your logic off of isn't right. The stage of ich that is visible on the fish is not the reproductive stage, it is the feeding stage where it eats cells and tissue from the fish. Also, ich can go through as many life cycles as long as all of its needs are met. 11 months means nothing. As long as a parasite has a host fish and water, the life cycle will continue.

Yes that's what that sticky http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1990809 says also . That's why i'm so cautious about the whole thing. I think i'll follow the polls and only have one in my 150 G and keep him happy. I'll put him last, and at least one year after the begining of the tank. Plus the caulerpa should be everywhere by then and he'll have plenty to munch on. lol.