LFS at my disservice

gotnoclue · 02/16/2015, 09:14 PM

Ok took my water to the local LFS to have it tested. They told me I had a low ph, my salinity was right where I thought it was,my kh hardness was way low, and they didn't have an mg calc alk test. Based on this I decided not to start adding the leathers and polyps I want to get my coral started. Bought an API master reef kit (I know not ideal all they had) ph is an 8.4 (how can I get that down do I need it down?) calc is through the roof (tg for instant ocean reef crystals again I know I will catch flack for using instant ocean) and my kh is at a 12. Can I add my leathers and polyp? Tank has cycled for a month although I recently swapped a crushed coral substrate for a deep sand bed. About three weeks ago.

jrr98002 · 02/16/2015, 09:19 PM

Well your pH and alk are all in a good range provided your results are right, so you're probably alright adding coral, depending on how 'through the roof' your calcium is. I don't think it'll have that much of a negative effect on some softies. You'll want to keep an eye on your nitrates/phosphates too, although softies like the water 'dirtier' so you have some leeway here.

gotnoclue · 02/16/2015, 09:33 PM

Nitrates are zero never had a nitrate spike after my ammonia and nitrite levels fell to zero. I chalked it up to the sand bed and live rock my fresh water at the end of the nitrogen cycle spiked nitrates. Calcium is around 400ppm

AmberLee · 02/16/2015, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotnoclue

Nitrates are zero never had a nitrate spike after my ammonia and nitrite levels fell to zero. I chalked it up to the sand bed and live rock my fresh water at the end of the nitrogen cycle spiked nitrates. Calcium is around 400ppm

That's not through the roof at all...

rwb500 · 02/16/2015, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotnoclue

I know I will catch flack for using instant ocean.

everyone uses instant ocean. literally the majority of the biggest, nicest reef tanks use instant ocean. spend some more time reading up on stuff and relax! it sounds like things are going just fine with your tank.

Breadman03 · 02/16/2015, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwb500

everyone uses instant ocean. literally the majority of the biggest, nicest reef tanks use instant ocean. spend some more time reading up on stuff and relax! it sounds like things are going just fine with your tank.

OK, maybe not everyone, but IO has plenty of respect here. Just ask my UPS guy!

FraggledRock · 02/17/2015, 08:41 AM

dont chase the PH it fluctuates throughout the day and night.

if you have a sump, try running your lights reverse schedule to keep PH consistent during the night hours.

dkeller_nc · 02/17/2015, 08:54 AM

Moreover, realize that it's nearly impossible for you to have a pH of 8.4 if your specific gravity is correct. Test kits are notoriously inaccurate for pH.

But also realize that pH, at least within a certain fairly wide range of 7.8 - 8.3, doesn't matter one whit to corals and fish. What's far, far more important are correct temperature, specific gravity, and flow. For stony corals, Calcium and Alkalinity are important considerations as well.

So, make sure that you've a way to accurately and repeatedly measure the temperature and specific gravity. If you don't have a refractometer, buy one. You can't rely on measurements by your local fish shop.

While I strongly recommend the Milwaukee digital seawater refractometer to beginners because it's bullet proof and requires no interpretation to correctly read, if you choose a manual refractometer, make certain you also buy a 1.026 refractometer calibration solution.

snorvich · 02/17/2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Moreover, realize that it's nearly impossible for you to have a pH of 8.4 if your specific gravity is correct. Test kits are notoriously inaccurate for pH.

But also realize that pH, at least within a certain fairly wide range of 7.8 - 8.3, doesn't matter one whit to corals and fish. What's far, far more important are correct temperature, specific gravity, and flow. For stony corals, Calcium and Alkalinity are important considerations as well.

So, make sure that you've a way to accurately and repeatedly measure the temperature and specific gravity. If you don't have a refractometer, buy one. You can't rely on measurements by your local fish shop.

While I strongly recommend the Milwaukee digital seawater refractometer to beginners because it's bullet proof and requires no interpretation to correctly read, if you choose a manual refractometer, make certain you also buy a 1.026 refractometer calibration solution.

Good advice. I also suggest learning to test your own water.

Dmorty217 · 02/17/2015, 10:15 AM

+1 to Checking your own water and the Milwaukee digital refractometer is one of the single
Best things I have purchased for my tank since I started in this hobby when I was 15

Sk8r · 02/17/2015, 11:16 AM

I'd advise, before you blow money on corals with this place, ----get a refractometer [salinity], get tests for alk, cal, mg, with supplements. [I use Salifert tests and Kent supplements.] As for salt mix, I use Oceanic, which is a good reef salt.
Start a logbook, do your own tests weekly, and start with ONE hardy coral.

Your readings are worrisome, in that your store is describing things as 'ok', not 8.3, 8.4, etc. The following is, if not universal, at least what will not kill your corals, and whatever deficiencies your salt mix may have, a little supplement addition will bring it where it needs to be. If too high in some reading, start water changes.
Here are workable tank parameters: temp 79-80. Salinity 1.024-1.026. Alkalinity [dkh] 8.3. Calcium 420, not below, and not much above. Magnesium, around 1300 and not below 1200.
Fix those first and you will not be losing corals to water problems. Also be sure your lighting is sufficient for the corals you want to keep: I am not impressed with the advice from the LFS.

tmz · 02/17/2015, 01:07 PM

Assuming the noted levels are correct:

calcium at 400ppm is about perfect. NSW (natural seawater) iis around 410.
recommended range 380 to 450(can be 500 or so but isn't needed at that level)
Alk 12 dkh ;high side recommended range 7 to 11dkh;NSW around 7. I keep mine at 9dkh

Ph 7.8 to 8.4 ok .

It does matter "a whit" or two within that range; less H in water / higher pH , makes it easier for stony corals to push the H off bicarbonate(HCO3) which it takes up as it forms callium carbonate(CaCO3) and to maintain the extra cellualar fluid at high PH. . Some very nice tanks running at 7.8 not withstanding. It runs around 8.0 to 8.3 in nsw IIRC.

I didn't see the salinity listed,.btw?

Instant Ocean has a long history of trouble free use . Ditto, Coralife ,another relatively inexpensive salt which I use.

02/16/2015, 09:14 PM	#1
gotnoclue Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: ohio Posts: 99	LFS at my disservice Ok took my water to the local LFS to have it tested. They told me I had a low ph, my salinity was right where I thought it was,my kh hardness was way low, and they didn't have an mg calc alk test. Based on this I decided not to start adding the leathers and polyps I want to get my coral started. Bought an API master reef kit (I know not ideal all they had) ph is an 8.4 (how can I get that down do I need it down?) calc is through the roof (tg for instant ocean reef crystals again I know I will catch flack for using instant ocean) and my kh is at a 12. Can I add my leathers and polyp? Tank has cycled for a month although I recently swapped a crushed coral substrate for a deep sand bed. About three weeks ago.

02/16/2015, 09:19 PM	#2
jrr98002 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Little Rock Posts: 235	Well your pH and alk are all in a good range provided your results are right, so you're probably alright adding coral, depending on how 'through the roof' your calcium is. I don't think it'll have that much of a negative effect on some softies. You'll want to keep an eye on your nitrates/phosphates too, although softies like the water 'dirtier' so you have some leeway here. Last edited by jrr98002; 02/16/2015 at 09:25 PM.

02/17/2015, 08:41 AM	#7
FraggledRock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: New York, New York Posts: 2,185	dont chase the PH it fluctuates throughout the day and night. if you have a sump, try running your lights reverse schedule to keep PH consistent during the night hours. __________________ “For most of history, man has had to fight nature to survive; in this century he is beginning to realize that, in order to survive, he must protect it.”― Jacques-Yves Cousteau MarineBio.org Current Tank Info: 40 Gallon Breeder w/ Bean Animal Overflow 20G Sump, Mixed Reef.

02/17/2015, 10:15 AM	#10
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	+1 to Checking your own water and the Milwaukee digital refractometer is one of the single Best things I have purchased for my tank since I started in this hobby when I was 15 __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

02/17/2015, 11:16 AM	#11
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I'd advise, before you blow money on corals with this place, ----get a refractometer [salinity], get tests for alk, cal, mg, with supplements. [I use Salifert tests and Kent supplements.] As for salt mix, I use Oceanic, which is a good reef salt. Start a logbook, do your own tests weekly, and start with ONE hardy coral. Your readings are worrisome, in that your store is describing things as 'ok', not 8.3, 8.4, etc. The following is, if not universal, at least what will not kill your corals, and whatever deficiencies your salt mix may have, a little supplement addition will bring it where it needs to be. If too high in some reading, start water changes. Here are workable tank parameters: temp 79-80. Salinity 1.024-1.026. Alkalinity [dkh] 8.3. Calcium 420, not below, and not much above. Magnesium, around 1300 and not below 1200. Fix those first and you will not be losing corals to water problems. Also be sure your lighting is sufficient for the corals you want to keep: I am not impressed with the advice from the LFS. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/16/2015, 09:33 PM	#3
gotnoclue Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: ohio Posts: 99	Nitrates are zero never had a nitrate spike after my ammonia and nitrite levels fell to zero. I chalked it up to the sand bed and live rock my fresh water at the end of the nitrogen cycle spiked nitrates. Calcium is around 400ppm

02/17/2015, 08:54 AM	#8
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Moreover, realize that it's nearly impossible for you to have a pH of 8.4 if your specific gravity is correct. Test kits are notoriously inaccurate for pH. But also realize that pH, at least within a certain fairly wide range of 7.8 - 8.3, doesn't matter one whit to corals and fish. What's far, far more important are correct temperature, specific gravity, and flow. For stony corals, Calcium and Alkalinity are important considerations as well. So, make sure that you've a way to accurately and repeatedly measure the temperature and specific gravity. If you don't have a refractometer, buy one. You can't rely on measurements by your local fish shop. While I strongly recommend the Milwaukee digital seawater refractometer to beginners because it's bullet proof and requires no interpretation to correctly read, if you choose a manual refractometer, make certain you also buy a 1.026 refractometer calibration solution.

02/17/2015, 01:07 PM	#12
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Assuming the noted levels are correct: calcium at 400ppm is about perfect. NSW (natural seawater) iis around 410. recommended range 380 to 450(can be 500 or so but isn't needed at that level) Alk 12 dkh ;high side recommended range 7 to 11dkh;NSW around 7. I keep mine at 9dkh Ph 7.8 to 8.4 ok . It does matter "a whit" or two within that range; less H in water / higher pH , makes it easier for stony corals to push the H off bicarbonate(HCO3) which it takes up as it forms callium carbonate(CaCO3) and to maintain the extra cellualar fluid at high PH. . Some very nice tanks running at 7.8 not withstanding. It runs around 8.0 to 8.3 in nsw IIRC. I didn't see the salinity listed,.btw? Instant Ocean has a long history of trouble free use . Ditto, Coralife ,another relatively inexpensive salt which I use. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.