How to dose calcium and alkalinity

[ibrat82]

So as per my other threads my calcium and alkalinity are fairly low in my 1 month old tank. I have no corals just 2 clowns a cup and dry rock/sand.

My alkalinity was around 5.4 dkh and calcium at 305. Now I bought a 2 part alkalinity and calcium bulk mix and I have a neptune dos. I want to start dosing but everywhere I read it says you must know how much your tank consumes so your dose the right amount. Now how do I figure out how much my tank consumes daily? Cause I'm assuming the dos would be dosing this daily to keep the alkalinity calcium levels to where they need be.

Now please correct me if I'm wrong but don't only corals consume alkalinity and calcium? So if I don't have any what's keeping my levels so low? Basically I just want to know how much to dose and over what period.

[vhuang168]

What salt are you using?

What is your salinity?

[gone fishin]

What is our magnesium level. There is a relationship between the three. Magnesium helps to keep the other 2 stable.

To answer the how much question. I use the calculator on the BRS site. Find out how much you need to add to get to your desired levels. Once you have reached those levels, I like to wait 2 days then test and get the current level. the difference between the desired and current level is how much you consumed in those 2 days. divide by 2 to get the daily amount. This daily amount is how much you need to dose daily.

Again before you start adding any calc or alk I would test and get your mag level in line if needed.

BTW if you are getting coralline growth that will consume some calcium.

FWIW I do find it odd to need to dose such a young tank with not much in it. I would speculate the salt mix should maintain the levels.

[Reef Frog]

Your salt is probably responsible for your levels, or errors in your testing or inaccurate test kits.

^+1. Magnesium is the key to this kingdom!

Inverts, snails, coralline algae, even green algae, consume some calcium. But that's not your issue. These users are insignificant compared hard corals.

First and foremost, get your parameters to a good, reef appropriate level. Then:

Determining daily consumption is simple. Test on Monday at 5pm and again on Tuesday at 5 pm. Subtract Tue result from Mon and you have it.

Test on Mon at 5pm and again 4 days later at the same time. Divide by 4 (#of days). Compare to your starting level.

Do it a few more times. Establish an average. The calculatiors will tell you how much to add daily.

[ibrat82]

I haven't tested magnesium yet. Another test kit to buy. I only use Hanna and salifert test kits which I assume are pretty accurate. As for salt I'm using aquavitro salinity. Salinity is at 1.024

[gone fishin]

I use salifert for the alk, calc and mag. I like them they are easy for me to read and repeatable.

I have not used that brand of salt so I don't know much about it or any problems related to it. Sorry

[ibrat82]

Could excess precipitate cause alkalinity and calcium levels to be low? Cause I do have build up on my pumps heaters tubing etc.

[vhuang168]

You shouldn't be getting any precipitation at all at this stage of the tank unless something is not right.

RoDI?

Aquavitro Salinity should get you Ca 400-443 and Alk of 8.96-10.64dkh straight out of the bucket.

I suggest you close up the barrel then roll it around a little to mix it up some then make a test batch.

What does the Hanna Alk meter actually read?

[Reef Frog]

Well, your salt sounds fine. A bad batch of salt is a remote possibility. I'd test it like suggested. I used to let my Red Sea Coral Pro sit around mixing too long at the wrong temperature when I started reef keeping and LOTS of stuff would percipitste out of the water. So it's possible I imagine.

Some manufacturers say to mix up your dry salt before using because the elements tend to settle into layers when in storage. Don't know if this is a fact but it couldn't hurt to try.

Hmn. You have excellent test kits. User error can happen to anyone. Is that possible? Let's see if low Mg is a contributor.

[ibrat82]

Well I went out and got a salifert magnesium testkit. My magnesium is at 1100. So magnesium is also low. So what to dose? Magnesium ? and it will bring alk and calcium up?

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

Well, your salt sounds fine. A bad batch of salt is a remote possibility. I'd test it like suggested. I used to let my Red Sea Coral Pro sit around mixing too long at the wrong temperature when I started reef keeping and LOTS of stuff would percipitste out of the water. So it's possible I imagine.

Some manufacturers say to mix up your dry salt before using because the elements tend to settle into layers when in storage. Don't know if this is a fact but it couldn't hurt to try.

Hmn. You have excellent test kits. User error can happen to anyone. Is that possible? Let's see if low Mg is a contributor.

[ibrat82]

So more than likely this is due to my salt. I do use a 4 stage Rodi unit. I'm assuming that I'm not mixing the salt correctly? Here's what I do. I measure the salt pour into my mixing drums that have 55 gallons of Rodi water in them. I turn on the maxiJet and heater and let it mix for 24 hours. Am I doing something wrong here? I've read I should " slowly pour the salt in ".

I'll have to try whatever your recommendation are in my next water change. But for now I need to get my levels stable. So would dosing magnesium first be the rugh the step?

[ibrat82]

Anyone?

Originally Posted by ibrat82

So more than likely this is due to my salt. I do use a 4 stage Rodi unit. I'm assuming that I'm not mixing the salt correctly? Here's what I do. I measure the salt pour into my mixing drums that have 55 gallons of Rodi water in them. I turn on the maxiJet and heater and let it mix for 24 hours. Am I doing something wrong here? I've read I should " slowly pour the salt in ".

I'll have to try whatever your recommendation are in my next water change. But for now I need to get my levels stable. So would dosing magnesium first be the rugh the step?

[gone fishin]

Originally Posted by ibrat82

So more than likely this is due to my salt. I do use a 4 stage Rodi unit. I'm assuming that I'm not mixing the salt correctly? Here's what I do. I measure the salt pour into my mixing drums that have 55 gallons of Rodi water in them. I turn on the maxiJet and heater and let it mix for 24 hours. Am I doing something wrong here? I've read I should " slowly pour the salt in ".

I'll have to try whatever your recommendation are in my next water change. But for now I need to get my levels stable. So would dosing magnesium first be the rugh the step?

I personally do not heat my water up until the salt is thoroughly dissolved. Contrary to popular belief our salt mixes dissolve better in cooler water. The warmer water can cause things to precipitate out. I usually will circulate the water for a few hours after I see no more salt then turn my heater on

Personally I would mix up a batch of salt water then test. Heat it up after it dissolves and test again then compare the mag alk and calc numbers.

As far as the dosing do the magnesium first get it set then check the calc and alk.

[vhuang168]

I wouldn't worry about the levels in the tank right now. You have no corals so nothing will get affected by the low levels.

Make a small batch, maybe 5 gals then check the levels making sure they match what you expect. If the numbers are low, then you have a bad batch of salt.

If the numbers are good, I would make a big batch, enough for 90%-100%. Check before you do the change, check right after. Then check everyday at the same time each day and track what is happening to your levels. This will give you a baseline as well as a trend on any changes.

This is how you find out how to do dose when it comes time.

[ibrat82]

Can my numbers be low (alkalinity, calcium, magnesium) because my salinity is at 1.024? I'm making the salt mix to be 1.024 but the numbers the salt guarantees is if it's at 1.026. Can my numbers be that off because of .002 of a difference in salinity??

[vhuang168]

It can be lower due to lower salinity but not that low.

[ibrat82]

So what would be best option here? Dose magnesium? Or get the salt in order and do 10% water changes every week?

Will topping off with saltwater bring up alk, calcium, and magnesium if I get the salt mix in check with the right parameters?

[gone fishin]

with what you have stocked I would personally verify that the salt is either the culprit or not and go from there. I would not be in any big rush right now to correct the levels, you may end up running around in circles.

If your salinity is good then do not top off with saltwater. If the salt test good when you make up a batch then do some WC's to get the levels up.

[oh207]

Test the levels in a fresh batch of newly mixed salt water to see if they are low or at expected levels. As mentioned, this batch of salt could be off.
Since your tank is so new and you don't have any corals that will use up Cal/Alk/Mag, I would look elsewhere.
I also would not worry about dosing until you are ready to add corals.

But to answer your question, in order to figure out how much you need to dose daily, you will have to test daily for a few days in a row. Or test every other day and then just calculate the usage amount.
In your case you will first want to calculate amount needed to raise each to desired levels. Then once at desired level, start to test daily to figure out usage amount between days (how much each drop), then adjust your doser to that amount.
There are online calculators to figure out the dosage amount based on what 2-part product you have.

[kurt_n]

Originally Posted by ibrat82

Can my numbers be low (alkalinity, calcium, magnesium) because my salinity is at 1.024? I'm making the salt mix to be 1.024 but the numbers the salt guarantees is if it's at 1.026. Can my numbers be that off because of .002 of a difference in salinity??

What are you using to measure salinity? If a refractometer, have you calibrated it? If not a refractometer, well... get ahold of one and see what it says.

All your numbers are proportionately correct, but just low... which nearly every time indicates that the salinity is low. I'm betting you're really not at 1.024.

I wouldn't dose anything until you confirm your salinity is where you think it is. And even then, you shouldn't have to dose with what you describe... unless your tank is overgrown with coralline algae. Coralline algae can suck calcium out of the water just as fast as coral. But with a 1 month old tank, I doubt that's your issue.

[ibrat82]

I use a sybon refractometer. I calibrate it using distilled water. It is spot on at 1.024 and even the lfs checked the salinity too.

[gone fishin]

Originally Posted by ibrat82

I use a sybon refractometer. I calibrate it using distilled water. It is spot on at 1.024 and even the lfs checked the salinity too.

I would suspect your salinity is lower than you think. Get yourself some 35ppt calibration fluid and calibrate your refractometer with that. When doing a one point calibration we want to use a calibration fluid closest to the one point we are checking for. In this case our salinity.

[kurt_n]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I would suspect your salinity is lower than you think. Get yourself some 35ppt calibration fluid and calibrate your refractometer with that. When doing a one point calibration we want to use a calibration fluid closest to the one point we are checking for. In this case our salinity.

This.

The Sybon is a great refractometer, but as gone fishin noted... calibrating at 1.000 doesn't help you measure 1.02x water.

I really really think you're lower than you think. (And your LFS is lower then THEY think!)

[ibrat82]

Wow can this get anymore difficult or what. So now the calibration method that sybon recommends by using their ultra pure solution isn't the correct way as what some of you are saying. I mean if that's not the right way then why not include a 35ppt solution instead of ultra pure water?

If what some of you are saying that my salinity isn't probably way lower than 1.024 then what am.I supposed to off of? What instrument is more accurate? How can I verify the true salinity of my water?

[vhuang168]

Get some 35ppt calibration fluid and calibrate your refractometer to it. I use a Milwaukee Salinity meter and I calibrate with RO/DI as listed in the instructions but I also test it with a 35ppt solution to check that it is calibrated correctly.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pinpoi...ion-fluid.html