Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor

OhMatic · 03/21/2016, 04:27 AM

Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor?

Which is a better/faster avenue for nutrient export?

maxxII · 03/21/2016, 04:41 AM

I've never used an algae scrubber.
But my ARID E18 reduced my PO4 levels from 0.08 to 0.00 in 11 days.
ARID E18 Phosphate Control.

I'm not disparaging algae scrubbers at all. I've just never used one.

I think a better question is which method is easier to use and maintain over the long haul.

Whichever one of those methods works best for you is the one you should use.

MaccaPopEye · 03/21/2016, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxII

I've never used an algae scrubber.
But my ARID E18 reduced my PO4 levels from 0.08 to 0.00 in 11 days.
ARID E18 Phosphate Control.

Just opened that thread to look at the pictures and that thing looks massive! I'll actually have a read now.

My ATS has only been up for 3 weeks now and I will already swear by them and recommend them.

I have a pretty bad nutrient problem so my algae growth has really taken off. And I have seen a very significant decrease in algae in just the last 3 weeks.

I did a lot of reading about scrubbers before I decided to build one and basically it's just like growing macro algae in a fuge, except the macro is on steroids. Kind of comparable to the algae reactor posted above, but IMO still just a bit more effective.

Read the guide on how to size, light and get the correct flow for a scrubber which is found in the algae turf scrubber basics thread. Then you can correctly size an ATS for your system so it can really kick ***.

Just a note: you don't need to have an ATS in a box for it to work well, I just prefer to keep the light contained as my stand is currently open.

Building the DIY box

Finished box over the sump

Screen after 5 days (first cleaning)

Screen after 14 days (second cleaning)

An example of some of my rocks from 4 weeks ago (left) and this week (right). A lot of snails were added 2 months ago but until the ATS was added the algae would grow faster than the snails could eat it. I was pulling out 2 cups of algae and it would be back in less than a week, even with the snails. Now the snails can eat the algae and it doesn't grow back thanks to the ATS.

wildman926 · 03/21/2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor?

Which is a better/faster avenue for nutrient export?

Use both, and you can't go wrong...

BCool · 03/21/2016, 09:25 AM

I think the turf algae on an ats would probably be able to adjust growth quicker that the chaeto in the reactor.

OhMatic · 03/21/2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCool

I think the turf algae on an ats would probably be able to adjust growth quicker that the chaeto in the reactor.

BCool
Just curious, Why do you think the ATS would be able to adjust growth quicker? Does Chaeto grow slower?

ca1ore · 03/21/2016, 04:41 PM

Not sure I really see why that would be?

I would think that the two would be equivalent export mechanisms. What's a more interesting question to me is whether growing chaeto in a dedicated reactor is superior to growing it in a refugium. I run both an ATS and chaeto in large refugium (nominally 40 gallons), and am planning to experiment with a DIY chaeto reactor as well.

BCool · 03/21/2016, 05:11 PM

In my previous experience the ATs has removed more nutrients quicker than any other calurpa or chaeto, hair algae grows really quickly.

ArmanS · 03/21/2016, 10:13 PM

I'm going to be running a L4 Turbo Scrubber and a Pax Bellum 24 Arid Reactor. If I had to choose one I would probably go with the ATS simply because its much cheaper, you can DIY fairly easily.

If I were you I would DIY a scrubber and see how its working. I see more and more people who used to have Chaeto tumbling in their sump / refugium and switched it to ATS with great success.

Having said that, from the people who I've talked with who have used the Arid reactor, they have been extremely impressed.

OhMatic · 03/22/2016, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmanS

I'm going to be running a L4 Turbo Scrubber and a Pax Bellum 24 Arid Reactor. If I had to choose one I would probably go with the ATS simply because its much cheaper, you can DIY fairly easily.

If I were you I would DIY a scrubber and see how its working. I see more and more people who used to have Chaeto tumbling in their sump / refugium and switched it to ATS with great success.

Having said that, from the people who I've talked with who have used the Arid reactor, they have been extremely impressed.

ArmanS
I have been running a L4 Turbo/HF ATS for over a year and it is not enough.... I simply don't have sump space for in-sump Chaeto growth. I have an Algae reactor on order.
I am setting up an additional tank and haven't decided ATS vs Reactor or both...

Are you currently running a L4? I personally think recommendations for ATSs are over rated. Why aren't you going to use a L8 with the ARID 24?

wildman926
I assume both would be better than either one, but I don't have the space for the new tank I'm setting up....

morgoanie · 03/22/2016, 02:18 AM

I run both an ATS and chaeto in large refugium

Breadman03 · 03/22/2016, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Not sure I really see why that would be?

I would think that the two would be equivalent export mechanisms. What's a more interesting question to me is whether growing chaeto in a dedicated reactor is superior to growing it in a refugium.

Light disperses from a source quite rapidly, which I think would give the ARID the potential to be more energy efficient, though that is only one factor among many to be considered. I suspect that maintenance may be more challenging than a refugium.

reefwiser · 03/22/2016, 09:04 AM

For equipment junkies I would think the ARID would ring a bunch of bells. An algae scrubber will do the same work. Maybe not as sexy as an ARID.

ca1ore · 03/22/2016, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breadman03

Light disperses from a source quite rapidly, which I think would give the ARID the potential to be more energy efficient, though that is only one factor among many to be considered. I suspect that maintenance may be more challenging than a refugium.

As I noted above, I've built a large chaeto reactor and will be hooking it up at some point in the next few weeks, so will find out for myself. I don't find much hair algae growth amongst the chaeto in my refugium, though I do have some cyano growth. I think the key to an algae reactor is the ability to get your arm into it to clean the sides.

outy · 03/22/2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor?

Which is a better/faster avenue for nutrient export?

Its a question of wattage used, ATS wins hands down.

You can grow chaeto under a powerful light in clean water, but you can grow GHA with low wattage in clean water.

Chaeto for me under 30w of light grows like crazy for 6 weeks until the water is cleaned up then dies off.

As to where I can always harvest my ATS under 30w lights.

Now if you water is not the cleanest because you feed like crazy, you can grow or use both methods with success.

OhMatic · 03/22/2016, 04:16 PM

ca1ore
your stated "as I noted above, I've built a large Chaeto..." Sorry I must have missed the above statement.... I understood you were planning to experiment with a DIY... How big is the reactor you have built? what is the design like? Is it center or outer light design? I am considering a DIY algae reactor...
Also you said "I think the key to an algae reactor is the ability to get your arm into it to clean the sides." I assume the ARID and ClearTides Algae Reactors use a light in the center design so that you only need to clean the center tube holding the lights. Which would be much easier(smaller area) to clean than the inside walls of a reactor tube.

wildman926 · 03/22/2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

Which would be much easier(smaller area) to clean than the inside walls of a reactor tube.

No issues cleaning the inside of my DIY converted Aquamaxx reactor.

OhMatic · 03/22/2016, 09:05 PM

wildman926
That looks like pretty good growth. How often do you take that much out?
If I had an extra reactor I would probably do a design similar to yours, but I don't and my tank is in a room with no AC. This morning at 10:00am my tank was 82.5 degrees and although I don't think higher temps hurt too much(the waters my fish come from frequently runs 85) I don't want to add a source of heat either

ca1ore · 03/22/2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

ca1ore
your stated "as I noted above, I've built a large Chaeto..." Sorry I must have missed the above statement.... I understood you were planning to experiment with a DIY... How big is the reactor you have built? what is the design like? Is it center or outer light design? I am considering a DIY algae reactor...
Also you said "I think the key to an algae reactor is the ability to get your arm into it to clean the sides." I assume the ARID and ClearTides Algae Reactors use a light in the center design so that you only need to clean the center tube holding the lights. Which would be much easier(smaller area) to clean than the inside walls of a reactor tube.

Here is the one I have built; not yet in service though.

No idea how well it will work, or how maintenance intensive it will be. 20W strip light wrapped around the outside of an old skimmer body (6" diameter; 24" tall) with aluminum tape to act as light block and heat sink.

OhMatic · 03/22/2016, 09:57 PM

Ca1ore
Your DIY algae reactor looks nice! How thick are your top and bottom pieces?
I was thinking of making the same thing size wise 6" X 24". I'm still debating putting lights on the inside vs outside. My feeling is the inside lights would require less cleaning/scrubbing area wise and less time to clean...

ArmanS · 03/22/2016, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

ArmanS
I have been running a L4 Turbo/HF ATS for over a year and it is not enough.... I simply don't have sump space for in-sump Chaeto growth. I have an Algae reactor on order.
I am setting up an additional tank and haven't decided ATS vs Reactor or both...

Are you currently running a L4? I personally think recommendations for ATSs are over rated. Why aren't you going to use a L8 with the ARID 24?

I am waiting on the new rev 4 L4s that will be released in May / June.

I do not think I will need an L8 even with a 450g display tank. I will be running an L4, Arid 24, BK SM 250, and a 80w UV. Between the Skimmer, Arid 24 and ATS that is more then sufficient.

OhMatic · 03/23/2016, 12:56 AM

ArmanS
Wow! a "450g display tank." that sounds massive to me... but I guess what matters more is the amount of nutrients you add to it each day...
I have a L4(on a "small tank"), an oversized skimmer, Biopellet reactor and a 36w UV filter. I was surprised that I still get GHA growth in my display... I have an algae reactor on order and hopefully that will do the trick.
My point was simply I think the L4 recommendations are over rated... I do try to over size my filtration but that's just me.

wildman926 · 03/23/2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMatic

wildman926
That looks like pretty good growth. How often do you take that much out?
If I had an extra reactor I would probably do a design similar to yours, but I don't and my tank is in a room with no AC. This morning at 10:00am my tank was 82.5 degrees and although I don't think higher temps hurt too much(the waters my fish come from frequently runs 85) I don't want to add a source of heat either

That removal was the "initial hit", removed after two months in October. I am about to remove a load again.

I like having the led's outside. The heat sinks get to dissipate heat without adding heat to the tank, and if one fails, I can notice it readily, it wont be too much of an affect on the operation of the unit, and I can change it at my leisure.

OhMatic · 03/23/2016, 10:04 AM

wildman926
Thanks, So how often do you need to "clean" your algae reactor? I have never grown Chaeto as a nutrient export...
Do you clean your ATS weekly?

I have to clean my ATS weekly or it starts to clog up.

outy · 03/23/2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmanS

I do not think I will need an L8 even with a 450g display tank. .

Remember

The size of your ATS is determined by how much you feed not the size of the tank.

03/21/2016, 04:27 AM	#1
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor Algae Scrubber vs Algae Reactor? Which is a better/faster avenue for nutrient export?

03/21/2016, 04:41 AM	#2
maxxII Super Housemonkey! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 4,442	I've never used an algae scrubber. But my ARID E18 reduced my PO4 levels from 0.08 to 0.00 in 11 days. ARID E18 Phosphate Control. I'm not disparaging algae scrubbers at all. I've just never used one. I think a better question is which method is easier to use and maintain over the long haul. Whichever one of those methods works best for you is the one you should use. __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

03/21/2016, 09:25 AM	#5
BCool Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lincoln, CA Posts: 274	I think the turf algae on an ats would probably be able to adjust growth quicker that the chaeto in the reactor. __________________ Brian Cooley Current Tank Info: 26"x26"x18" BB Cube w\ats and led, 12g Nano Cube

03/21/2016, 04:41 PM	#7
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Not sure I really see why that would be? I would think that the two would be equivalent export mechanisms. What's a more interesting question to me is whether growing chaeto in a dedicated reactor is superior to growing it in a refugium. I run both an ATS and chaeto in large refugium (nominally 40 gallons), and am planning to experiment with a DIY chaeto reactor as well. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

03/21/2016, 05:11 PM	#8
BCool Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lincoln, CA Posts: 274	In my previous experience the ATs has removed more nutrients quicker than any other calurpa or chaeto, hair algae grows really quickly. __________________ Brian Cooley Current Tank Info: 26"x26"x18" BB Cube w\ats and led, 12g Nano Cube

03/21/2016, 10:13 PM	#9
ArmanS Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 90713 Posts: 1,391	I'm going to be running a L4 Turbo Scrubber and a Pax Bellum 24 Arid Reactor. If I had to choose one I would probably go with the ATS simply because its much cheaper, you can DIY fairly easily. If I were you I would DIY a scrubber and see how its working. I see more and more people who used to have Chaeto tumbling in their sump / refugium and switched it to ATS with great success. Having said that, from the people who I've talked with who have used the Arid reactor, they have been extremely impressed. __________________ 120" x 34" x 30" 540g Build Starting Soon! Royal Exclusiv Dream Box Sump, 2 x 60" ATI LED/T5, DaStaCo CARx, Apex, Genesis, BK SM 250, 3 x RD 3 230w, UV, ATS, & Arid Reactor! Will have build thread so

03/22/2016, 02:18 AM	#11
morgoanie Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 3	I run both an ATS and chaeto in large refugium

03/22/2016, 09:04 AM	#13
reefwiser Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Louisville,Kentucky Posts: 1,208	For equipment junkies I would think the ARID would ring a bunch of bells. An algae scrubber will do the same work. Maybe not as sexy as an ARID. __________________ President Louisville Marine Aquarium Society. http://www.lmas.org/ The 3rd Annual Frag swap will be held September 23rd,2017 11 am till 3pm Saint Thomas Fellowship hall,9616 Westport Road,Louisvi

03/22/2016, 04:16 PM	#16
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	ca1ore your stated "as I noted above, I've built a large Chaeto..." Sorry I must have missed the above statement.... I understood you were planning to experiment with a DIY... How big is the reactor you have built? what is the design like? Is it center or outer light design? I am considering a DIY algae reactor... Also you said "I think the key to an algae reactor is the ability to get your arm into it to clean the sides." I assume the ARID and ClearTides Algae Reactors use a light in the center design so that you only need to clean the center tube holding the lights. Which would be much easier(smaller area) to clean than the inside walls of a reactor tube. Last edited by OhMatic; 03/22/2016 at 05:10 PM.

03/22/2016, 09:05 PM	#18
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	wildman926 That looks like pretty good growth. How often do you take that much out? If I had an extra reactor I would probably do a design similar to yours, but I don't and my tank is in a room with no AC. This morning at 10:00am my tank was 82.5 degrees and although I don't think higher temps hurt too much(the waters my fish come from frequently runs 85) I don't want to add a source of heat either

03/22/2016, 09:57 PM	#20
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	Ca1ore Your DIY algae reactor looks nice! How thick are your top and bottom pieces? I was thinking of making the same thing size wise 6" X 24". I'm still debating putting lights on the inside vs outside. My feeling is the inside lights would require less cleaning/scrubbing area wise and less time to clean...

03/23/2016, 12:56 AM	#22
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	ArmanS Wow! a "450g display tank." that sounds massive to me... but I guess what matters more is the amount of nutrients you add to it each day... I have a L4(on a "small tank"), an oversized skimmer, Biopellet reactor and a 36w UV filter. I was surprised that I still get GHA growth in my display... I have an algae reactor on order and hopefully that will do the trick. My point was simply I think the L4 recommendations are over rated... I do try to over size my filtration but that's just me.

03/23/2016, 10:04 AM	#24
OhMatic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: USA Posts: 261	wildman926 Thanks, So how often do you need to "clean" your algae reactor? I have never grown Chaeto as a nutrient export... Do you clean your ATS weekly? I have to clean my ATS weekly or it starts to clog up.