20gallon Reef needs help, Algae attack

jerseynano · 05/05/2016, 03:51 PM

My tank is a 20 gallon long about a year old and after thriving for a while the past month i have been battling what seems like every kind of algae. it started with bubble algae which is finally reproducing slower than i can remove it. but now my tank has become over run with dinoflagellates. Ive tested the water many times and no signs of any ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. The specific gravity is 1.024 and temp is 78F. Ph is 7.8. I have a koralia 425 powerhead and a smaller Hydor Pico Evo-Mag 180 that somehow provides almost better flow than the 425. I am also running a HOB filter for extra flow. I have an led fixture. I have a pair of clowns and a royal gramma have been in the tank the whole time had a damsel at the start that was too aggressive. I had a shrimp for about 8 months that molted like 15 times and got pretty large i discovered dead a few weeks ago (suspected it was just his life span).a week after that My hermit crabs all died within a few days of each other and not long after that many of my snails died. The weird part is at the same time my banded trochus snails managed to mate and I now have 4 new small/medium trochus snails. Also notice tons of collinista snails at night. I have 25-30lb of nice live rock in the tank with lots of sponges and coraline but you cant see it through the algae. To make things worse I had my first coral die this week. My branching hammer shed its hammers and died.

I always do regular water changes and keep up on maintenance. Lately I have done extra water changes to try and fix the problem. Please help my identify what is wrong as well provide solutions for how to fix it. Open to both natural fixes as well as chemical products at this point as long as they dont harm the corals. I am fairly new to the hobby and appreciate all the help i can get.

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jeff240gallon · 05/05/2016, 04:02 PM

My first tank was a 36 gallon bow front. I upgraded to a 75, and now have a 240. I found that with smaller tanks, it's harder to keep control of them cause the slightest fluctuation in your water chemistry, then (refer to your photos). What I did to help my problem in my 36 is buy a hefty amount of cuc. Only problem is once they get rid of your algae outbreak, they may starve. Also be sure to select the right kind of cuc as some eat different things. Some fish can help too (my yellow tang loves hair algae). I try to avoid chemicals with corals in the tank, but there are natural additives. Also, sometimes certain algae, diatoms, etc just flourish, and if you just ride it out sometimes they can go away on their own (diatoms especially). Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GimpyFin · 05/05/2016, 04:20 PM

Are you running a hang-on skimmer as well or just the filter basket? It's possible excess nutrients/organics are feeding the outbreak. You could try some seachem purigen in a bag in your HOB if you have no skimmer. Have you tested phosphate?

Reef Frog · 05/05/2016, 05:10 PM

Often, it's a thing that resolves itself in time with good husbandry.

It may be driven by high phosphate levels. GFO is one way to export them. Then remove what you can by siphon & water changes.Repeat as needed. Some say 3 day black outs help but they Dino's will return if underlying causes aren't addressed.

Peroxide treatment is a more advanced option but should be employed with the largest water changes you can get away with. Read up on this as adverse effects are possible if you use too much. Combining techniques may enhance your overall efforts. Good luck.

salty55 · 05/05/2016, 05:19 PM

Doesn't look like Dino's to me. It looks like cyano and hair algae. Like others have said, run some GFO and kill the lights for a few days. Keep the nutrients in check to keep it gone.

Reef Frog · 05/05/2016, 05:25 PM

^ Importsnt detail there! My iPhone can't properly display an enlargement of those little tiny pics.

OP: Confirm what you have. Depending on species, advice may vary.

mcgyvr · 05/05/2016, 05:25 PM

Take a sample of your water to get your nitrate results verified and have them check phosphates..

and define "regular water changes" and "extra water changes"
how much per week on average? any slips a few months ago?

and how long are you running the lights. what kind are they and how old are they?
algae needs food and light.. spectral shifts in older bulbs can cause issues too..

smaller tanks are tough any small change can really mess with things..

Mackenze · 05/05/2016, 05:44 PM

Raise your magnesium,(and calcium to keep alk habitable). Don't do any water changes for awhile. Easy fix

Reef Frog · 05/05/2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackenze

Raise your magnesium,(and calcium to keep alk habitable). Don't do any water changes for awhile. Easy fix

Maybe I missed something but this advice seems odd.his woukd your advice fix his issue? He didn't post his big 3 parameters did he? Ca & Mg levels don't have much to do with a pest algae, which is basically unidentified at this time.

Water changes never hurt and only help during a algae explosion. It removes dissolved orgsnics and organic particals (detritus) that is destined to become disolved orgsnics.

OrQidz · 05/05/2016, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackenze

Raise your magnesium,(and calcium to keep alk habitable). Don't do any water changes for awhile. Easy fix

Not a good plan when your tank has excess nutrients, which yours appears to have. The thing with nanos is that they go along fine for awhile but a slight imbalance in nutrients does build up, then you have algae outbreaks. I would do 20% WC weekly at least, run some GFO, see if your test kits are out of date or something (I'm skeptical of zero nitrate). Skimmer would help too.
You can run GFO or chemipure, carbon, etc in your HOB if you aren't already. Another consideration with a HOB is to find a way to keep a piece of filter floss where it will catch detritus. Do a turkey baster attack to get debris moving. Change the filter floss daily.

It's fixable! But will probably take a little while.

jerseynano · 05/06/2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrQidz

Not a good plan when your tank has excess nutrients, which yours appears to have. The thing with nanos is that they go along fine for awhile but a slight imbalance in nutrients does build up, then you have algae outbreaks. I would do 20% WC weekly at least, run some GFO, see if your test kits are out of date or something (I'm skeptical of zero nitrate). Skimmer would help too.
You can run GFO or chemipure, carbon, etc in your HOB if you aren't already. Another consideration with a HOB is to find a way to keep a piece of filter floss where it will catch detritus. Do a turkey baster attack to get debris moving. Change the filter floss daily.

It's fixable! But will probably take a little while.

thanks
Currently i am only running purigen in the HOB. I have run chemi pure in the past but stopped because i was trying to get rid of the hob all together and just have quiet natural filtration with the LR and powerheads(tank is located in my bedroom). for the first few months i did 2 gallon or 10% changes about 6 months in i started doing 15% weekly changes because I noticed some bubble algae on a rock with corals i bought. I tried to buy a HOB internal skimmer at one point but the one i got was like an inch too tall for my short 20gallon long. And due to budget reasons being an unemployed student I gave up on that. I also have a AC70 not being used I was originally going to convert to a fuge but it created way to much downward flow and made my sand fly everywhere. Most annoying part about tank is how quickly the water evaporates.Tank is open topped(i like looking down on the open tank, no escape problems) I understand a lid would help slow evaporation but would a clear plexiglass(or similar) lid significantly reduce the amount of light. My light fixture is an Orbit marine 23 Watt 48 Dual Daylight/48 Dual Actinic LEDs, 96 LEDs Total. Have it on a preset timer I saw excellent growth on all my corals prior to the algae problems. Many started out as 1 or 2 polyps frags and now are nice colonies. I have also noticed that the brown algae (either cyano or dinoflaggetes) isnt nearly as bad when i get up in the morning after having the lights out at night and gets worse throughout the day.

Please bare with me I have done a ton of research all over the forums and web and find so many different things that why I figured I would post my self. So I apologize if any of these questions are dumb but here it goes:

1. People have been saying it looks like cyano (i have dealt with red cyano before and this seems different) Thats why i think its dino, also there are air bubbles trapped in the algae that make it extend upwards from the bottom of the tank?

2. Would adding more rock and or live sand to the system help? Might be dumb but in my mind it would create more and or better biological filtration. Also if this would help how would i go about doing that live rock/dry rock? Could u just add a few scoops of caribsea live sand from a bag at a time?

3. Due to the size of my tank and the fish living in it, it is pretty full. I cant add any herbivores really because many if not all are too big for 20 gallons. I have been hesitant to add more CUC because of how quickly they died the last time. Still thrown off by how my trochus snails managed to successfully spawn, thought water quality needed to be perfect. Should I try and get a few more snails, hermits, shrimp, or emerald crabs? If yes what should i get and how many?(current alive CUC is a year old large but lazy turbo, a couple ceriths, margarita snail, 3-4 small/medium banded trochus, 4-5 nassarius, as well as a decent sized encrusting clam that came on my liverock)

4. Should I do a drastic water change like 30-40% to try and get things going in the right direction?

5. What test kit could I purchase that would be a little more advanced and include the items that may be causing this? currently just have a standard API saltwater test kit

6. Can I get rid of the hob all together or would that be bad to do right now?

Again know im kinda all over the place but the tank looked so nice for like 9 months and now i guess the beginners luck caught up to me. So thank you for your patience and any help is greatly appriciated.

dweber618 · 05/06/2016, 02:54 PM

Noboday has asked this yet - but where is your water source from? Often times tap water is used and people don't realize how bad it can be.

Do you use RO/DI water, and if so - when was the last time you checked your TDS and/or changed your membrane and filters?

jerseynano · 05/06/2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dweber618

Noboday has asked this yet - but where is your water source from? Often times tap water is used and people don't realize how bad it can be.

Do you use RO/DI water, and if so - when was the last time you checked your TDS and/or changed your membrane and filters?

I buy RO/DI water from my LFS

05/05/2016, 03:51 PM	#1
jerseynano Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 10	20gallon Reef needs help, Algae attack My tank is a 20 gallon long about a year old and after thriving for a while the past month i have been battling what seems like every kind of algae. it started with bubble algae which is finally reproducing slower than i can remove it. but now my tank has become over run with dinoflagellates. Ive tested the water many times and no signs of any ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. The specific gravity is 1.024 and temp is 78F. Ph is 7.8. I have a koralia 425 powerhead and a smaller Hydor Pico Evo-Mag 180 that somehow provides almost better flow than the 425. I am also running a HOB filter for extra flow. I have an led fixture. I have a pair of clowns and a royal gramma have been in the tank the whole time had a damsel at the start that was too aggressive. I had a shrimp for about 8 months that molted like 15 times and got pretty large i discovered dead a few weeks ago (suspected it was just his life span).a week after that My hermit crabs all died within a few days of each other and not long after that many of my snails died. The weird part is at the same time my banded trochus snails managed to mate and I now have 4 new small/medium trochus snails. Also notice tons of collinista snails at night. I have 25-30lb of nice live rock in the tank with lots of sponges and coraline but you cant see it through the algae. To make things worse I had my first coral die this week. My branching hammer shed its hammers and died. I always do regular water changes and keep up on maintenance. Lately I have done extra water changes to try and fix the problem. Please help my identify what is wrong as well provide solutions for how to fix it. Open to both natural fixes as well as chemical products at this point as long as they dont harm the corals. I am fairly new to the hobby and appreciate all the help i can get. IMG_2279.JPG IMG_2278.jpg IMG_2277.jpg IMG_2276.jpg

05/05/2016, 04:20 PM	#3
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	Are you running a hang-on skimmer as well or just the filter basket? It's possible excess nutrients/organics are feeding the outbreak. You could try some seachem purigen in a bag in your HOB if you have no skimmer. Have you tested phosphate? __________________ Brian Current Tank Info: 110 gallon

05/05/2016, 05:19 PM	#5
salty55 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: where the wind comes sweeping down the plains Posts: 509	Doesn't look like Dino's to me. It looks like cyano and hair algae. Like others have said, run some GFO and kill the lights for a few days. Keep the nutrients in check to keep it gone. __________________ sent from my laptop while sitting on the couch! Current Tank Info: 75 gallon display, 20 gallon sump, 20 gallon display fuge, vertex IN100 skimmer, apex, tunze 6055x2, tlc kalkreactor/phosreactor, APEX controlled LED

05/05/2016, 05:25 PM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Take a sample of your water to get your nitrate results verified and have them check phosphates.. and define "regular water changes" and "extra water changes" how much per week on average? any slips a few months ago? and how long are you running the lights. what kind are they and how old are they? algae needs food and light.. spectral shifts in older bulbs can cause issues too.. smaller tanks are tough any small change can really mess with things.. __________________ Who me?

05/05/2016, 04:02 PM	#2
jeff240gallon Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 181	My first tank was a 36 gallon bow front. I upgraded to a 75, and now have a 240. I found that with smaller tanks, it's harder to keep control of them cause the slightest fluctuation in your water chemistry, then (refer to your photos). What I did to help my problem in my 36 is buy a hefty amount of cuc. Only problem is once they get rid of your algae outbreak, they may starve. Also be sure to select the right kind of cuc as some eat different things. Some fish can help too (my yellow tang loves hair algae). I try to avoid chemicals with corals in the tank, but there are natural additives. Also, sometimes certain algae, diatoms, etc just flourish, and if you just ride it out sometimes they can go away on their own (diatoms especially). Good luck! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05/05/2016, 05:10 PM	#4
Reef Frog Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,121	Often, it's a thing that resolves itself in time with good husbandry. It may be driven by high phosphate levels. GFO is one way to export them. Then remove what you can by siphon & water changes.Repeat as needed. Some say 3 day black outs help but they Dino's will return if underlying causes aren't addressed. Peroxide treatment is a more advanced option but should be employed with the largest water changes you can get away with. Read up on this as adverse effects are possible if you use too much. Combining techniques may enhance your overall efforts. Good luck.

05/05/2016, 05:44 PM	#8
Mackenze Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 74	Raise your magnesium,(and calcium to keep alk habitable). Don't do any water changes for awhile. Easy fix

05/06/2016, 02:54 PM	#12
dweber618 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: MT Posts: 334	Noboday has asked this yet - but where is your water source from? Often times tap water is used and people don't realize how bad it can be. Do you use RO/DI water, and if so - when was the last time you checked your TDS and/or changed your membrane and filters?