Phosphates 0.00

rjjr1963 · 12/01/2016, 11:08 AM

I checked my phosphate level with a Hannah low range meter. Is 0.00 possible and is it desireable?

scooter31707 · 12/01/2016, 12:53 PM

Yes it is possible. Are you having trouble with algae? That's fine with a FOWLR, but in a reef, IMO corals need a little phosphates. I keep mines in the range of 0.06-0.13.

rjjr1963 · 12/01/2016, 01:57 PM

I have a very small amount of green and brown algae on the gravel. Looks like a carpet and comes and goes over time. I did start dosing with kalkwasser a couple of weeks ago. Nitrates are 2.0. The tank has been set up about a year but I recently added an overflow box and a sump. I also use a poly-filter pad 100% of the time.

DivingTheWorld · 12/01/2016, 03:45 PM

It depends on which Hanna checker you're using. My Phosphate checker would regularly show 0.00, but once I got a Phosphorous checker I found that it was really in the range of 0.01-0.04. Where you want to keep it depends on what you want to keep in your tank. I keep sps, so I shoot for 0.01-0.04. If you're seeing 0.00 with a Phosphorous checker, you're too low.

rjjr1963 · 12/01/2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld

It depends on which Hanna checker you're using. My Phosphate checker would regularly show 0.00, but once I got a Phosphorous checker I found that it was really in the range of 0.01-0.04. Where you want to keep it depends on what you want to keep in your tank. I keep sps, so I shoot for 0.01-0.04. If you're seeing 0.00 with a Phosphorous checker, you're too low.

I'm using the Hannah low range phosphate checker. I'll look into the phosphorous checker. What would be the best way raise the phosphate level in the tank?

DivingTheWorld · 12/01/2016, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjjr1963

I'm using the Hannah low range phosphate checker. I'll look into the phosphorous checker. What would be the best way raise the phosphate level in the tank?

Feed more, add more fish.

But DON'T do those until you know for sure (phosphorous checker) what your levels are at. And if you have visible algae, you probably have high phosphates and the algae is consuming it.

Justin330 · 12/01/2016, 04:13 PM

Interested to see how to raise Phosphate as well.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Timfish · 12/01/2016, 06:31 PM

Phosphates on reefs are much higher than is commonly belived. On average PO4 is .13 mg/l. Only a tiny fraction of reefs have PO4 levels below .05 mg/l. Additionally upwelling can expose a reef to levels as high as 2.0 mg/l. What also is overlooked is phosphate is the limiting nutrient for corals to use inorganic nitrogen, ammonia and nitrate. When internal phosphate levels drop below .07 mg/l the corals zooxanthellae become very inefficient and cause the coral to become very sensitive to small changes in temperature and light intensity. So, yes, you can have phosphate too low. And for what it's worth, in my experience with my tank in my maintenance business I have not found phosphate to be the cause of algae problems.

rjjr1963 · 12/01/2016, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld

It depends on which Hanna checker you're using. My Phosphate checker would regularly show 0.00, but once I got a Phosphorous checker I found that it was really in the range of 0.01-0.04. Where you want to keep it depends on what you want to keep in your tank. I keep sps, so I shoot for 0.01-0.04. If you're seeing 0.00 with a Phosphorous checker, you're too low.

I checked my phosphorus tonight with a Hanna ultra low range checker and it was 40 ppb. Is that too high?

I found some conversion equations and calculate my phosphate to be .12ppm. 40 ppb phosphorus x 3.044/1000. Not sure why the phosphate checker isn't giving an accurate answer but I ordered some new regent and will recheck.

oseymour · 12/02/2016, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjjr1963

I checked my phosphorus tonight with a Hanna ultra low range checker and it was 40 ppb. Is that too high?

I found some conversion equations and calculate my phosphate to be .12ppm. 40 ppb phosphorus x 3.044/1000. Not sure why the phosphate checker isn't giving an accurate answer but I ordered some new regent and will recheck.

If it's way off, then it's probably user error. I have the Hanna ULR and Regular phosphate checkers and if I do a phosphate test back to back I get different numbers. I suspect it's with getting that last bit of powder out of the packet and into the tube consistently.

I don't even test for phosphates anymore. I carbon dose and simply change the little GFO I use every 2 months or so.

Timfish · 12/02/2016, 08:20 AM

Total phosphorus includes organic and inorganic phosphate while most of the tests we use for "phosphate" is only testing for inorganic or orthophosphate aka PO4. Differences between the two tests shouldn't be a surprise.

DivingTheWorld · 12/02/2016, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjjr1963

I checked my phosphorus tonight with a Hanna ultra low range checker and it was 40 ppb. Is that too high?

I found some conversion equations and calculate my phosphate to be .12ppm. 40 ppb phosphorus x 3.044/1000. Not sure why the phosphate checker isn't giving an accurate answer but I ordered some new regent and will recheck.

The calculation should be phosphorus x 3.066 / 1000. But your calculation is close enough. Personally I would consider that to be high and if confirmed I would look into ways for reduction such as GFO. As to why the Phosphorus checker and the Phosphate checker differ, that's to be expected. I found the same thing with mine and have read numerous threads on it. The Phosphate checker just isn't as accurate.

One thing I will say about testing with the Phosphorus checker is to immediately shake and check once you add the reagent. The one time I got a bogus figure from mine, I had just dumped the reagent into the vial when my wife called me to do something. I came back a couple minutes later, shook it up and the vial was blue. Upon checking, it read a maxed 200. I rechecked and shook immediately and it was within range.

rjjr1963 · 12/02/2016, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld

The calculation should be phosphorus x 3.066 / 1000. But your calculation is close enough. Personally I would consider that to be high and if confirmed I would look into ways for reduction such as GFO. As to why the Phosphorus checker and the Phosphate checker differ, that's to be expected. I found the same thing with mine and have read numerous threads on it. The Phosphate checker just isn't as accurate.

One thing I will say about testing with the Phosphorus checker is to immediately shake and check once you add the reagent. The one time I got a bogus figure from mine, I had just dumped the reagent into the vial when my wife called me to do something. I came back a couple minutes later, shook it up and the vial was blue. Upon checking, it read a maxed 200. I rechecked and shook immediately and it was within range.

Should I just run some GFO and monitor the phosphorus until it reaches an acceptable range? Would macroalgae help to lower phosphorus?

slief · 12/02/2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjjr1963

I checked my phosphorus tonight with a Hanna ultra low range checker and it was 40 ppb. Is that too high?

I found some conversion equations and calculate my phosphate to be .12ppm. 40 ppb phosphorus x 3.044/1000. Not sure why the phosphate checker isn't giving an accurate answer but I ordered some new regent and will recheck.

Because the phosphate checker isn't ultra low range. Our target range is considered ultra low range. The margin of error on the HI713 grows as you get into the ultra low range phosphate levels and becomes pretty much worthless below .10 po4. It's also not a "Marine" Checker. The HI736 ULR Phosphorus tester is the only phosphate checker that Hanna sells that is designed for our application. Sadly the resellers of the HI713 don't make this clear and people falsely assume that because these online sellers sell the HI713 and because it's marketed as a "phosphate checker" they assume it's the one to get. Sadly it's not the right one to get as people quickly find out. That or they just assume they are getting the correct readings and are lulled into a false sense of security.

Buzz1329 · 12/02/2016, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oseymour

If it's way off, then it's probably user error. I have the Hanna ULR and Regular phosphate checkers and if I do a phosphate test back to back I get different numbers. I suspect it's with getting that last bit of powder out of the packet and into the tube consistently.

I don't even test for phosphates anymore. I carbon dose and simply change the little GFO I use every 2 months or so.

Yep.

tkeracer619 · 12/03/2016, 12:48 AM

I think that level is too high but I typically run a ulns tank but don't think you should dive into ulns. I believe the tank needs to be well established with a lot of fish and coral then slowly bring it to those levels over a period of time.

My display tank currently is .006ppm po4 and 2.5 nitrate.

12/01/2016, 11:08 AM	#1
rjjr1963 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Nebraska/Missouri Posts: 770	Phosphates 0.00 I checked my phosphate level with a Hannah low range meter. Is 0.00 possible and is it desireable? __________________ 72x24x16 115 gallon under construction Current Tank Info: 40 gallon reef

12/01/2016, 01:57 PM	#3
rjjr1963 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Nebraska/Missouri Posts: 770	I have a very small amount of green and brown algae on the gravel. Looks like a carpet and comes and goes over time. I did start dosing with kalkwasser a couple of weeks ago. Nitrates are 2.0. The tank has been set up about a year but I recently added an overflow box and a sump. I also use a poly-filter pad 100% of the time. __________________ 72x24x16 115 gallon under construction Current Tank Info: 40 gallon reef

12/01/2016, 03:45 PM	#4
DivingTheWorld Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: San Ramon, CA Posts: 1,963	It depends on which Hanna checker you're using. My Phosphate checker would regularly show 0.00, but once I got a Phosphorous checker I found that it was really in the range of 0.01-0.04. Where you want to keep it depends on what you want to keep in your tank. I keep sps, so I shoot for 0.01-0.04. If you're seeing 0.00 with a Phosphorous checker, you're too low. __________________ Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite XHO, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector

12/01/2016, 06:31 PM	#8
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Phosphates on reefs are much higher than is commonly belived. On average PO4 is .13 mg/l. Only a tiny fraction of reefs have PO4 levels below .05 mg/l. Additionally upwelling can expose a reef to levels as high as 2.0 mg/l. What also is overlooked is phosphate is the limiting nutrient for corals to use inorganic nitrogen, ammonia and nitrate. When internal phosphate levels drop below .07 mg/l the corals zooxanthellae become very inefficient and cause the coral to become very sensitive to small changes in temperature and light intensity. So, yes, you can have phosphate too low. And for what it's worth, in my experience with my tank in my maintenance business I have not found phosphate to be the cause of algae problems. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

12/02/2016, 08:20 AM	#11
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Total phosphorus includes organic and inorganic phosphate while most of the tests we use for "phosphate" is only testing for inorganic or orthophosphate aka PO4. Differences between the two tests shouldn't be a surprise. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

12/01/2016, 12:53 PM	#2
scooter31707 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,971	Yes it is possible. Are you having trouble with algae? That's fine with a FOWLR, but in a reef, IMO corals need a little phosphates. I keep mines in the range of 0.06-0.13.

12/01/2016, 04:13 PM	#7
Justin330 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 51	Interested to see how to raise Phosphate as well. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

12/03/2016, 12:48 AM	#16
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I think that level is too high but I typically run a ulns tank but don't think you should dive into ulns. I believe the tank needs to be well established with a lot of fish and coral then slowly bring it to those levels over a period of time. My display tank currently is .006ppm po4 and 2.5 nitrate. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.