To disturb the sand bed or not disturb it

[xxmindgamesxx]

Im honestly lost inbetween whither i should vacuum it or not. Im hoping to hear your opinions on this matter and what you think is right and why. Thank you

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[mcgyvr]

deja vu..
This type of question has been beaten to death over and over just about monthly here
Cliff notes = there is no proven "right way"..

[homer1475]

Basically, if you do it, keep doing it. If you don't, then leave it be. No right or wrong way to it.

[RobZilla04]

This has been brought up at least once a day for the past few weeks.

Try pressing the "Search" button, key word "vacuum".

~Mind, blown

[j.falk]

Originally Posted by xxmindgamesxx

Im honestly lost inbetween whither i should vacuum it or not. Im hoping to hear your opinions on this matter and what you think is right and why. Thank you

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If you don't want to vacuum...why not try a clean up crew to burrow in and help keep your sand bed clean?

Personally, I do vacuum because in my mind it helps remove any uneaten food / fish waste that may be laying in the sand bed rotting and polluting the tank. But to each their own.

[xxmindgamesxx]

Originally Posted by j.falk

If you don't want to vacuum...why not try a clean up crew to burrow in and help keep your sand bed clean?

Personally, I do vacuum because in my mind it helps remove any uneaten food / fish waste that may be laying in the sand bed rotting and polluting the tank. But to each their own.

Yeah thats what im leaning towards

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[Rover88]

Originally Posted by homer1475

Basically, if you do it, keep doing it. If you don't, then leave it be. No right or wrong way to it.

This.

Don't start if you haven't been. Don't stop if you have been.

[MrHyde]

For those that don't touch their sand bed do any of you run GFO, GAC, Carbon Dose, have a Refugium or an ATS? If you really want to know how healthy that untouched sand bed is couldn't you just start taking these offline for a couple months or so and see what happens? You might be turning a blind eye here.

[donsods]

I personally don’t like to vacuum because I like the critters. Gerald at IPSF had a video series on Nano Lagoons that recommends stirring a shallow sand bed with a stick right before a water change. Another approach is to vacuum a portion of the sand bed on water change days on a rotation basis. Not sure where I got that idea — but I know it wasn’t an original one.

[xxmindgamesxx]

Originally Posted by donsods

I personally don’t like to vacuum because I like the critters. Gerald at IPSF had a video series on Nano Lagoons that recommends stirring a shallow sand bed with a stick right before a water change. Another approach is to vacuum a portion of the sand bed on water change days on a rotation basis. Not sure where I got that idea — but I know it wasn’t an original one.

So When i do vacuum the sand bed i risk vacuuming critters? Oh that sucks

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[Uncle99]

I put a screen between each of two 3" substrates.
Vacuum the top, but the screen prevents disturbing the bottom.

[xxmindgamesxx]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

I put a screen between each of two 3" substrates.
Vacuum the top, but the screen prevents disturbing the bottom.

Intresting

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[Rover88]

Originally Posted by MrHyde

For those that don't touch their sand bed do any of you run GFO, GAC, Carbon Dose, have a Refugium or an ATS? If you really want to know how healthy that untouched sand bed is couldn't you just start taking these offline for a couple months or so and see what happens? You might be turning a blind eye here.

I run GAC and nothing else really. No refugium. Only dose alk.

[xxmindgamesxx]

Originally Posted by Rover88

I run GAC and nothing else really. No refugium. Only dose alk.

Whats gac? Never heard of it before.

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[homer1475]

GAC = granulated activated carbon.

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[xxmindgamesxx]

Originally Posted by homer1475

GAC = granulated activated carbon.

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Oh okay thx

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[top shelf]

As mentioned it's more of a personal choice and I believe comes down to the individual tank as no 2 tanks are alike. Some never do it and have no issues and I've heard some mention if they dont they have outbreaks. Each side has there own vaild points to why they do or don't so I think you'd be best of to just right down the pros and cons to both and make your own educated decision.

All that being said I personally don't vacuum my sand and have no issues in the main display but have a bit of hair algae in my sump but I feel that's a good place for it. Tank has been running for 7 months so maybe still to new to tell. I utilize chaeto and that's it.

[rjjr1963]

I like a very clean looking sandbed so I siphon regularly. I think it's just personal preference and the look you're after.

[Sisterlimonpot]

A quick reference when it comes to sand beds is if it's pushing 3 inches deep or more I would not disturb it.

There's a lot of nitrifying and denitrifying activities going on down there. if you disturb this process you can release H2S and S04 that can cause enough of a problem in your tank that it can kill off all inhabitants.

If it's under 3 inches then the preference is yours.

[ramseynb]

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

A quick reference when it comes to sand beds is if it's pushing 3 inches deep or more I would not disturb it.

There's a lot of nitrifying and denitrifying activities going on down there. if you disturb this process you can release H2S and S04 that can cause enough of a problem in your tank that it can kill off all inhabitants.

If it's under 3 inches then the preference is yours.

I had nothing but problems when I had a sand bed of more than an inch. I didn’t vacuum it but it wasn’t a deep sand bed either (6” or more). IMHO, either use an inch or so of sand or research DSBs to use for denitrification. Don’t go in between.

With that said, I’ve had the best success LIGHTLY siphoning my sand bed. I’ll lightly disturb it with all pumps off and detritus will settle on top, then I lightly siphon off the detritus. I’ll occasionally siphon up some sand too and slowly replace it when it gets too low. There are critters in my sand bed that aggressive siphoning would suck up like spaghetti worms and other small worms.

I’ve also had a shallow sand bed that I didn’t disturb and I didn’t really have any issues but when I broke the tank down, there was A LOT of detritus in it. It made me wonder if I was building a ticking time bomb which is why I started siphoning/stirring it.

As others have said though, this is one area where you’ll get a lot of different opinions and there’s no right answer. I would say experiment and see what works for you.

[homer1475]

While I have a shallow sand bed(roughly 3"), I do not siphon for fear of loosing all the beneficial life that lives in it(bristle worm, peanut worms, snails, brittle stars, etc, etc).

I instead just stir it up real well on water change days. Run a filter sock for a few hours, and blow off the rocks once everything gets sucked up or settles. I also run with many sand sifters/stirrers to keep the sandbed turned over on a constant basis.

[Sisterlimonpot]

A good friend of mine "Whys" who is no longer a member on RC copulated this easy to understand post in order to get a better understanding of what's going on in a sallow sand bed as well as a deep sand bed.

He stresses 4" as the minimum, I stress 3"

Originally Posted by Whys

A deep sand bed, or DSB for short, can be a useful addition to a saltwater aquarium, refugium, or even a remote bin. Tho based on a remarkably simple idea, DSB discussions can become enormously complex. The purpose of this article is to offer a generalized understanding of the core concepts and specific terminology. This is by no means the final word on the DSB, nor does it advocate anything more than educating the reader, but it can also serve as a guide to a more serious investigation.

There are several potential benefits and possible drawbacks to having a DSB. Most often their purpose is for nitrate reduction, so that is this article's focus, but that is not their only purpose, nor is a DSB the only means for achieving that goal. Not everyone uses a DSB and many have tried them with poor results. Some do use a DSB and have reported good results for a decade or more. There is substantial disagreement as to why some succeed and others fail. Over the years, some general rules of thumb have evolved, but they should not be mistaken for definitive science. It is up to the reader to reach their own conclusions.

To better understand the anatomy of a deep sand bed, let us first look at a shallow sand bed, or SSB for short.



- Oxic: oxygenated.
- Aerobic: requires oxygen to function.
- Nitrifying: converts ammonia into nitrate.

In all aquariums, decomposition is largely performed by bacteria, but the process can be facilitated by the presence of a "clean up crew", or CUC for short. Detritus (waste) and other organic matter is first eaten by the CUC of crabs, stars, hermits, and snails. The smaller particulates they produce are then further broken down by copepods, other benthic organisms, and worms. The remaining dissolved organics are then converted by the "nitrifying" bacteria, from ammonia (toxic), to nitrite (less toxic), to nitrate (least toxic). All of this takes place within a layer of sand oxygenated by moving water, termed oxic, and the bacteria there require oxygen to function, termed aerobic. In a shallow sand bed this is where the process ends. The nitrate simply accumulates in the water column to be removed by ritual water change.

In a deep sand bed, there are another type of bacteria, termed anaerobic, that require a depleted oxygen environment to function. Among these are the "denitrifying" bacteria that convert toxic nitrate into beneficial nitrogen. The primary objective of a DSB is to provide a layer of very low oxygen, termed hypoxic, where bacteria can function anaerobically. The potential harm is in creating a layer completely devoid of oxygen, termed anoxic, where "reducing" bacteria can convert sulfate into hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell). This and other toxins can dangerously accumulate in a sand bed that is too deep or not properly maintained.

The prevailing wisdom is that the worms and benthic organisms are vital to maintaining a healthy DSB. In addition to cleaning the sand, it is believed their gentle agitation of the bed helps deliver nutrients to the bacteria while preventing truly anoxic conditions.



- Benthic: surface and near sub-surface sand bed layer.
- Hypoxic: low oxygen.
- Anoxic: no oxygen.
- Anaerobic: requires depleted oxygen to function.
- Denitrifying: converts nitrate into nitrogen.

The full benefits and challenges surrounding deep sand beds are still a matter of some debate, so it is important to point out that the conversation is often confused by competing terminology. Environmentalists often borrow the term anoxic (labeled in blue) to mean extremely hypoxic, and anaerobic (labeled in blue) to mean truly anoxic.

Here are some general rules of thumb for maintaining a DSB. It should be at least four inches deep but no more than six, consisting mostly of fine grains, sometimes called "oolite" or "sugar-fine". Keep the benthic and worm populations healthy by avoiding Sand-Sifting stars, most crabs, and limiting hermits. Occasionally rejuvenate these populations with fresh liverock or true livesand from a well established aquarium, as this may be key to long term success. The sand bed should only be disrupted very gently over time. Brittle and baby stars, as well as Nassarius and Cerith snails, provide a slow and beneficial agitation of the sand, but vacuuming should be performed with great care, if performed at all. Remember, a deep sand bed is a living thing that must be kept in careful balance.

General Rules of Thumb

- 4" to 6"; fine-grain; do not disturb or disturb with care.
- Helpful: Brittle & baby stars, Nassarius & Cerith snails.
- Unhelpful: Sand-Sifting stars, most crabs, too many hermits.
- Rejuvenate benthic and worm populations for long term success.


----------------------------------------
(Jun,2009) Author & Illustrator: Whys. The following credits, listed in alphabetical order, are for collaborative work only and should not be assumed as endorsements of this article. Technical contributions: capn_hylinur, fsn77, jenglish, MattL, tmz, WaterKeeper. Additional peer review: adtravels, Biologist, luther1200, jasonrp104, Nanook, rishma, Sisterlimonpot, thegrun, therealfatman.

[MrHyde]

I hate to say it, but it just boils down to a "blue thumb," as opposed to a "green thumb." Some of us are just better at this "Hobby" than others. Like Golf, Computer Games, maybe working on cars? We all have our own "niche" in life. Our tanks look so much different, but the CYCLE is still the same... Thumbprint perhaps? KISS.

[AlSimmons]

Originally Posted by Rover88

This.

Don't start if you haven't been. Don't stop if you have been.

So what do you do? (curiosity)

Just want to make sure the BS makes since...

[ramseynb]

Originally Posted by MrHyde

I hate to say it, but it just boils down to a "blue thumb," as opposed to a "green thumb." Some of us are just better at this "Hobby" than others. Like Golf, Computer Games, maybe working on cars? We all have our own "niche" in life. Our tanks look so much different, but the CYCLE is still the same... Thumbprint perhaps? KISS.

I don't agree with this. With research, experience and time, anyone can keep a successful reef tank. It may come more natural to some or some people might "luck out" and have a tank that just does really well, but I don't think it's beyond anyone to keep a tank unless they have a physical or mental impairment that would prevent them from doing it. It's just like guitar, it might some slightly more natural to some people than others, but to get good/great, it requires a lot of experience and practice, it doesn't matter who you are.