Kalkwasser and Chemistry

Chris918 · 04/08/2018, 11:31 PM

Hello,

I have low pH at around 7.8. I have never been able to make it rise in any of my tanks and I know it is negatively impacting coralline and coral growth. There is too much CO2 in my home and it is normally too hot or cold to open windows for any significant amount of time. I also cannot run a fresh air line to my skimmer.

I believe kalkwasser, when placed in an ATO, can slowly increase and maintain higher pH levels. My question is this. I am using Red Sea ABC and trace colors. Trace colors are based on calcium consumption. I'm guessing Kalkwasser will also increase my Calcium levels. Is it possible to use both of these products together or will kalkwasser make it almost impossible? I seriously just want a consistent pH of 8.3.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Cheers,

Chris

RobZilla04 · 04/09/2018, 04:39 AM

Ugh, this again. Don't chase pH! Keep Alk at your target or between an acceptable range.

If you buffer to adjust the pH and stop, it'll simply come back down. Buffering to maintain a higher pH can (and likely will) negatively effect Alk which is more important for coral health than pH.

Throw away the test kit & thank me later.

bertoni · 04/10/2018, 11:27 PM

A lot of Tanks of the Month have run at that pH level. I agree that ignoring the level is fine.

The buffer products and Kalk all work by consuming carbon dioxide from the water by adding alkalinity. Kalk does the most per unit of alkalinity added, but it often can't keep up with aeration. Fresher air can help, but that's hard to do in colder climates.

Kevin Guthrie · 04/14/2018, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Ugh, this again. Don't chase pH! Keep Alk at your target or between an acceptable range.

+1. If you think you need to stabilize your pH, measure just before lights on and again on the same day just before lights off. That will show you how hopeless it is.

hkgar · 04/14/2018, 03:53 PM

Ph is like a spoiled little brat. You can NOT do anything about it except by decreasing CO2 in the water. <- that is a period, end of story. CO2 scrubber will get you about .2 PH increase

bertoni · 04/14/2018, 10:23 PM

The pH effect of a carbon dioxide scrubber will vary quite a bit depending on how much air the equipment will scrub. The practical limit seems fairly small, but I haven't seen enough reports to be able to judge.

fisher4d · 04/21/2018, 08:37 AM

You can use both, I use kalk with triton. Not for ph but I can minimize my triton dose until they get supply under control. Just had some sitting around so I tried it, plus it will help in transitioning to something else if I decide to stop using triton.

tmz · 04/25/2018, 10:32 AM

Calcium hydroxide provides a balanced dose of alkalinity and calcium. The hydroxide binds CO2 for CO3 alk; so it reduces the CO2 in the water and raises the pH . When dosed 24/7 in small increments it does so continuously while maintaining both calcium and alk levels as desired and controlled by the amount dosed.

Soda lime used in a CO2 scrubber removes CO2 from the air entering the skimmer and thus reduces CO2 entering the water from the surrounding air

I use both to maintain pH in the 8.2 to 8.35 range continuously and have done so for many years.

While I agree 7.8 is likely an acceptable pH level and maintaining constant alk levels is key and should not be sacrificed to buffers geared to gain pH( which will likely be short lived as air containing CO2 enters the water )at the expense of constant alk ; I also pay attention to pH and maintain it at a constant level and consider 7.7 a low side redline since coral skeletal mass may begin to dissolve at lower levels. Both goals are achievable and desirable IMO.

04/08/2018, 11:31 PM	#1
Chris918 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 174	Kalkwasser and Chemistry Hello, I have low pH at around 7.8. I have never been able to make it rise in any of my tanks and I know it is negatively impacting coralline and coral growth. There is too much CO2 in my home and it is normally too hot or cold to open windows for any significant amount of time. I also cannot run a fresh air line to my skimmer. I believe kalkwasser, when placed in an ATO, can slowly increase and maintain higher pH levels. My question is this. I am using Red Sea ABC and trace colors. Trace colors are based on calcium consumption. I'm guessing Kalkwasser will also increase my Calcium levels. Is it possible to use both of these products together or will kalkwasser make it almost impossible? I seriously just want a consistent pH of 8.3. Thanks to anyone who can help. Cheers, Chris

04/09/2018, 04:39 AM	#2
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Ugh, this again. Don't chase pH! Keep Alk at your target or between an acceptable range. If you buffer to adjust the pH and stop, it'll simply come back down. Buffering to maintain a higher pH can (and likely will) negatively effect Alk which is more important for coral health than pH. Throw away the test kit & thank me later. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/10/2018, 11:27 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	A lot of Tanks of the Month have run at that pH level. I agree that ignoring the level is fine. The buffer products and Kalk all work by consuming carbon dioxide from the water by adding alkalinity. Kalk does the most per unit of alkalinity added, but it often can't keep up with aeration. Fresher air can help, but that's hard to do in colder climates. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/14/2018, 03:53 PM	#5
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Ph is like a spoiled little brat. You can NOT do anything about it except by decreasing CO2 in the water. <- that is a period, end of story. CO2 scrubber will get you about .2 PH increase __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

04/14/2018, 10:23 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The pH effect of a carbon dioxide scrubber will vary quite a bit depending on how much air the equipment will scrub. The practical limit seems fairly small, but I haven't seen enough reports to be able to judge. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/21/2018, 08:37 AM	#7
fisher4d Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 27	You can use both, I use kalk with triton. Not for ph but I can minimize my triton dose until they get supply under control. Just had some sitting around so I tried it, plus it will help in transitioning to something else if I decide to stop using triton.

04/25/2018, 10:32 AM	#8
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Calcium hydroxide provides a balanced dose of alkalinity and calcium. The hydroxide binds CO2 for CO3 alk; so it reduces the CO2 in the water and raises the pH . When dosed 24/7 in small increments it does so continuously while maintaining both calcium and alk levels as desired and controlled by the amount dosed. Soda lime used in a CO2 scrubber removes CO2 from the air entering the skimmer and thus reduces CO2 entering the water from the surrounding air I use both to maintain pH in the 8.2 to 8.35 range continuously and have done so for many years. While I agree 7.8 is likely an acceptable pH level and maintaining constant alk levels is key and should not be sacrificed to buffers geared to gain pH( which will likely be short lived as air containing CO2 enters the water )at the expense of constant alk ; I also pay attention to pH and maintain it at a constant level and consider 7.7 a low side redline since coral skeletal mass may begin to dissolve at lower levels. Both goals are achievable and desirable IMO. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals. Last edited by tmz; 04/25/2018 at 10:39 AM.