LED fixture lifespan - Radions

[ilikefish34]

Everyone loves the idea of not having to replace bulbs in their LEDs but what about the fixture itself? The title mentions the Radions but please do not limit comments to just them... I'm looking for feedback on any and all brands.

I dropped off my 210 yesterday to get drilled and was thinking about putting 3 Radion fixtures on it but was curious, before dropping that kind of cash, of how long I should expect to have them before they start to go bad.

Thank You
Mike

[ganjero]

Hard to tell for sure since this fixture have not been around for too long. From what I have seen* and from common sense, some LEDs will fail or die sooner than expected. That's why I would only buy or build a LED fixture where I can replace single LED and not an entire puck.


*I have seen PFO Solaris, AI Sol, DIY, Evergrow/Reefbreeders where single LEDs die within months.

[supra400hptt]

Problem isn't going bad imo, it's technology advancing where you will want something better. In the beginning it was about white and blue, now after a few years we have advanced color mixing, auto dimming and single die leds like Kessils. I built my set up instead of dropping a lot of money on any of the high end fixtures that will seem out of date in a few years. With my DIY I can change leds at will to keep up with new developments.

[ilikefish34]

Since I'm a bit technologically illiterate, and won't be attempting a DIY project, would the recommendation be to pick up a bargain brand and switch them out as the technology has caught up with LEDs the way it has with T-5s and metal halides or just go ahead with a reputable brand?

You're both absolutely right about the changing technology and product developments, and I wish that I could build my own to stay completely up-to-date. But I don't need a new car or iphone every year as those are updated as long as my current one does the job. I don't mind spending the money if it is going to last but I certainly don't want to throw it away either.

[OceanRevive]

Although we think the led evolution is slowing down (maybe), at the very least, today's led fixtures will be good enough to use for years even if better systems do come along. You already have better blue to white ratios, dimmers, built-in controllers, full spectrum layouts, which are all the reasons why people have continued to upgrade their fixtures with each new step in the evolutionary process.

You should expect a good led fixture to last at least 5 years, and if they are well cared for, maybe even as long as 10. Sad to say, that's probably longer than the average new reefer stays in the hobby. And almost for sure longer than you are going to be willing to keep using the fixture you buy now.

[ilikefish34]

Thanks Ocean Revive, that's exactly what I was looking for.

[ilikefish34]

just giving it a bump to see if others have some input

[EcoTech Service]

From our research and testing, we've found that the usable lifespan of the LEDs is >50,000 hours. Keep in mind, that is based on the lights constantly at full power, which virtually nobody does.

In simple, a very very long time!

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by EcoTech Service

From our research and testing, we've found that the usable lifespan of the LEDs is >50,000 hours. Keep in mind, that is based on the lights constantly at full power, which virtually nobody does.

In simple, a very very long time!

Like post #5 said, 5 years maybe 10.

[ilikefish34]

Thank you Ron Reefman... I didn't doubt Ocean Revive, but it helps me make a better decision when others back up the same answer.

[D-Nak]

I own a pair of Radion G1s and I am very happy with them. I did have both of the units replaced due to dead fans which caused them to shut down, but Ecotech has a repair program that allows you to have a working unit sent to you so you always have lights on your tank. They also offer an upgrade program, so you can keep current, and not feel like you have old technology.

[FlyPenFly]

The logic boards, power supply, or fan is much more likely to fail first.

However, for the most part, the light will last longer than your tank.

Everyone complaining about lights becoming obsolete make no sense to me. Just because new lights come out doesn't make your light automatically worse if it works in your setup. The release of a new light didn't somehow magically detune your current light.

[Reefer82]

Going w something fairly high end today will basically guarantee you're going to have a lot of the currently available features. As mentioned above the Radion and several others have integrated controllers, full spectrum lighting, etc. Those didn't exist a few years ago...well not unless you dropped thousands on a Solaris and even then its a far cry from what's available now. You'll have a LOT of capability with the radion or any other fixture in that class. Things fail, its part of life and sucks. Building a DIY isn't as hard as it seems, you likely have someone nearby that could lend a hand. Its quite s bit of work for a large light and you'll have no warranty in most cases, that's what steered me away even though I'm fully capable of doing the job.

Either way you go, don't stress as leds are pretty well proven, its the electronics that run them that usually cause a problem.

[ilikefish34]

I feel confident that the Radion will be more than enough to meet all of my lighting needs for as long as I am in the hobby. My reason for asking about the longevity of the fixture has less to do with future technology and more to do with how it gets along with my wallet. I didn't get into this hobby to save money but I don't like being frivolous either. From the feedback, it sounds like I'll be ordering 3 Radions.

[robsk]

Maybe I am the only one, but doubt it...
It's interesting (and amusing) to me our thoughts on LED longevity. "Probably 5...maybe 10 years". I have seen that estimate on multiple forums. You would think we would want to narrow that down a bit...lol...especially as it relates to the wallet. In one instance, savings might be $500 and in another $1000...that's significant and could determine what kind of light we buy.

It would kind of be like going to the local tire shop to buy tires and the rep says, "you might get 30k or possibly 60K out of them..." Most folks would leave scratching their heads...

I guess until we see long term led use in the hobby, we won't know. And even then we know all leds (and their components) are not created equal. May take some time to get an "across the board" view of longevity.

[ilikefish34]

I'm with you robsk... even though people are giving their opinions and experiences, the LED fixtures simply haven't been around long enough, compared to T-5s and Halides, to give a better idea of what to expect as you mentioned. For me and my first LED, I'm going to go with a reputable brand, but not their top of the line and see how it plays out.

[zombiereefer]

im gonna say that the leds them selfs MIGHT last that long. if nothing happens. in a controled enviroment sure 50,000 hours. but so many things can and will go wrong. if my razor sits there above my tank and never falls or gets wet im sure it will last the 2.5 years i have left of school and plan on it hanging there. thats not bad at all. in the 2.5 years i would have ran t5 i would have needed to replace 6 t5 24" bulbs twice and that alone would have been 250$. the other 150$ i spent on the fixture im guessing ill save in electric. i know 120w light is still using power but not like a 6x24w ATI with 2 or 3 fans plus moon lights. so that good enough right?? why worry about it. i mean how many reefers really setup a tank and leave. dont change the lighting or upgrade tanks. maybe 1 in 5. im just guessing. as long as the light does its job at the time you have it then dont worry about being behind tech wise. and life of the light, dont count on it. EVER. you just cant. example. i could walk in the door after work and find it on the bottom of my tank doubtful but could happen. or maybe something burns out or i just plan want a different light.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by robsk

Maybe I am the only one, but doubt it...
It's interesting (and amusing) to me our thoughts on LED longevity. "Probably 5...maybe 10 years". I have seen that estimate on multiple forums. You would think we would want to narrow that down a bit...lol...especially as it relates to the wallet. In one instance, savings might be $500 and in another $1000...that's significant and could determine what kind of light we buy.

It would kind of be like going to the local tire shop to buy tires and the rep says, "you might get 30k or possibly 60K out of them..." Most folks would leave scratching their heads...

I guess until we see long term led use in the hobby, we won't know. And even then we know all leds (and their components) are not created equal. May take some time to get an "across the board" view of longevity.

Try this on for size:

I have 4 tanks in my house, 3 of them had MH and 1 had a 6 bulb t5. I had to run a 1hp chiller on 2 tanks and a 1/3hp on the other 2 to keep them cool enough. And my home A/C worked a lot to keep the house at 80-82 degrees (we're in South Florida and 80 in the summer is cool enough for us). So in Dec I switched to all leds over all 4 tanks and my refugium. My Feb-April electric bills were $20-$30 less each month than the bills from 1 year earlier. Then it got hot and the A/C has to run, my May-July electric bills are $40-$60 less per month! I'll save $400-$500 in electricity cost in just 1 year.

And I would also have spent over $500 on new bulbs (6 MH and 10 t5's) as well. If you have 1 small tank, leds aren't a big deal in terms of cost savings. But to me, I don't have any problem saving $1000 a year in expenses for my aquarium addiction. Oh, and I only spent $1500 on the 7 led fixtures I bought as we did a really big group buy direct with EverGrow before they had dealers in the US (OceanRevive sells EverGrow and Reef Breeders sells rebranded EverGrow).

[robsk]

Ron Reefman, that is awesome savings for you. It definitely makes sense for you because in less than two years, you have already paid for your fixtures and the rest is gravy after that.

The topic is longevity though. And I am a Led user too. We seem to accept that the fixture we buy might "last 5...or maybe 10". To me, that is a HUGE difference!

For most of us, if we knew an led fixture would last a max of 5 years based on our savings, we may second guess the purchase for a variety of factors. On the other hand, if they truly lasted 10 years then everyone should get them!

And in this hobby will anyone have the same fixture in the same environment for that length of time to tell us about durability...maybe with the technology slowing down a bit we will now see some folks hanging onto them that long...but who knows.

Yet, it is a hobby we love. So many of us, myself included, are ok with "you might get 5...or 10" I just find it funny how that is acceptable with us reefers!

[ilikefish34]

Ron Reefman, that's a great black and white way of showing the savings for anyone that wants to know the year-to-year savings that LEDs can provide. What I am unclear about is why robsk was quoted... he was referring, as is this thread, in the longevity of the fixture.

With your figures, assuming that all things are equal, one would save 25% ($250 per year) of what you saved if they only have one good size aquarium and less if they have no need for a chiller. That $250 is nothing to scoff at, but it may not be enough to justify one lighting system over another.

Let's look at a couple of scenarios with prices from Marine Depot minus tax and shipping. For me, I'll be using 3 fixtures over a 210 gallon. I could go with the Radion Gen2 at $550 per unit and $1650 for the set or I could go with the ATI 60" 8bulb sunpower at $700 and bulbs are about $25 each or $200 for the set. After 5 years of having them, the LED fixtures may need replacement and during which the t-5s cost of bulb replacement would be $1000 and probably a few hundred saved in utilities.

The cost or replacing the the fixtures vs the savings from the t-5s would almost be a wash. In which case, I should just buy the lights that I prefer in terms of what they can grow, the overall look that they give the DT and to shimmer or not to shimmer. I could go with the Chinese lights and the savings would be even greater with the LEDs, especially if the fixtures last closer to the 5 year mark rather than the hopeful 10 years.

And that is why this thread was started. If members of this forum came back with a 5 year max and more realistically 2-4 years per fixture, I would most likely go with the T-5s or maybe take a chance on the Evergrows but definitely stay away from the higher end LED. If the forum members came back with at least 10 years then I would probably be looking into the Radion Pro or some other top of the line fixtures. It's all about how long the products should last if they are within manufacturer recommendations and less about whether I would be looking to upgrade before the life of them expires.

Thank you to all for contributing to the conversation.

[chaturai]

7 years gone. radion gen 5 is here. radion xr15 is 200$ higher than AI Hyrdra 32HD but all of these fixtures are extremely overpriced

[billdogg]

I've got AI Sol blues that are about 10 and going strong. Part of the reason is that they max out at about 80% so I'm not pushing them all that hard.

A pair of Kessil A360W's are about 8 and I expect them to keep going for quite some time for the same reason as above.

My Radion XR30G4 pros are about 2 now, and I'll be surprised if they don't last even longer than the Sol's - I max them out at 70% and in addition to their onboard fans I have several others inside the open canopy to keep them cool as well.

And I'm with Ron - the electricity and bulb changing savings for me helped to make it an easy decision.

[cody6766]

I've seen a lot of early AI fixtures for sale with dead LEDs. I'm guessing this is probably not from the LED lifespan as much as it's from LED lifespan when being driven hard in a harsh environment. They're fighting heat, salt build-up, and long run times.

I see far fewer mid to new generation lights for sale with dead LEDs. It's easy to think that this is because they're newer, but I seem to remember quite a few early-gen LED fixtures with dead LEDs pretty early in their lifespan. I bet it's related to a combo of new LEDs that are better suited for high heat and long runs, fixtures that cool those LEDs better, and maybe fixtures that protect the circuits from salt corrosion.

I have absolutely zero hard data to back that up. It's completely anecdotal based on stuff I've seen for sale over the years. Also, I have some Kessil A350s that saw about 5 years of constant use that run like they're new, plus an old AI Nano that I used for about 2 years after buying used that is fully functional. Old LEDs aren't bad, but new ones seem to be better.

P.S.
I still run T5s on my tank. I have some accent LEDs that aren't plugged in, and I'm considering rigging my Kessils to my AI T5 fixture for color, but I prefer the look of T5s with some LED help over LED alone. LED-only tanks look good, but I think they always look better with T5s added. I see them like more flexible MH lighting. They're good on their own, but better with some T5s to round them out.