Zoos have been closed for a month

CoMMaNdeR · 03/23/2006, 07:35 AM

A month ago I have bought a piece of zoanthids, brown/green and have rarely opened. Few of them have opened and then closed and never reopened.

All corals in the tank are doing great. Yesterday I have bought another zoanthid coral and it opened after few hours.

So my question is, why the other has been closed for all this time if parametres are fine, and even it is near the new one so they are having the same light etc ?

Steffish · 03/23/2006, 07:38 AM

Can you see anything on them? This happened to me when I first got flatworms. They were irritating the zoos and they kept on closing.

Avi · 03/23/2006, 08:02 AM

Zoanthids can refuse to open for a few reasons, among them are zoanthid-eating nudibranchs. They are difficult to see because their shape lets them blend in with the skirt of the zoanthid polyp, so you have to look carefully. They look like this:

Another thing that will frequently cause them not to open is a film that grows on them that can be micro-algae or a fungal growth....either may happen if there are elevated phosphates in the water of the reef and improving water quality and increasing the waterflow in the tank is the way to address this. It's a good idea to blast the zoanthids with water from a turkey baster to assure that detritus doesn't collect on them or between the polyps and micro-algaes don't have a chance to smother them.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/23/2006, 08:05 AM

AVI I once saw that nudibranch in my tank..
Hmm If I see it again I will surely catch it.

Water quality is fine.. I can see some hair algae growing near the zoos because this is a 4 month aquarium, nearly new one ..

adtravels · 03/23/2006, 08:08 AM

dwarf angels sometimes pick at them in my experience.
Also i have had the nudibranch problem on some fluorecent green zoos they look remarkably like the polyps and can be 2 to 10mm in length

take the zoos out put them in a bowl and shoot them with a baster when shut if there are nudis they will be in the bowl.
It may take a few goes

Avi · 03/23/2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoMMaNdeR
AVI I once saw that nudibranch in my tank..
Hmm If I see it again I will surely catch it.

Water quality is fine.. I can see some hair algae growing near the zoos because this is a 4 month aquarium, nearly new one ..

If you've seen one then I can assure you, sadly, that you have more....you should be looking carefully everywhere on the zoanthids in your reef. Using a turkey baster to gently blow the polyps apart may reveal more of those nudis and you can then suck them out witht the baster and discard them. Also, it's important to look for the eggs...they're white little curley-Qs in shape and when you see them, usually on the "neck" of polyps, gently dislodge them from what they are on with the end of the turkey baster. It'll take a while before you can be certain all the of nudis and the eggs are all gone. Be vigilant.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/23/2006, 12:53 PM

Bad or good news I don't know..

Today like you guys suggest I put out the coral out of water and saw that nudi eating a polyp. Arghh I throw it away.. I put the coral near the power head to see if I can pull out more but nothing came off.

Hope there are not anymore of these things... AVI why do you thing if there is one nudi you think there are more ?

Avi · 03/23/2006, 02:56 PM

They breed like rabbits. That's really the reason why. And, because about a year and a half ago, I had a bout with them and I know that they will keep appearing and the idea is to deplete their numbers and finally eradicate them completely from your reef. The way to do this is to get them ALL, and also ALL of their eggs. There are lots of threads about these nasty creatures in the forums, particularly in the Zoanthid forum here in RC. There are dips that some people are successful with but I haven't used dips and defeated them with the turkey baster. That's because a lot of the zoanthids in my reef are epoxied to the rockwork so couldn't be removed for dipping.

Oh, one other thing, CoMMaNdeR, I would discourage you from putting the coral near a power head to deal with the zoanthid-eating nudibranchs because that would likely just blow the nudibranch off the coral intot the water and then into your rockwork, to come back to your zoanthids very soon to continue doing damage and lay more eggs. The use of a turkey baster gives you the opportunity to "catch" the nudibranch if you should see one and then to discard it immediately.

ANNIESREEF · 03/23/2006, 03:42 PM

Commander, Avi is right. I now have a QT for this very reason. Nudi's are a zoanthid lovers nightmare. I do a fresh water dip for about 5 minutes every 3 days. Now I don't have any nudi's in the QT tank but some zoa's in my display couldn't be removed so I am watching patiently for any nudi's which I suck out with a pipette.

Good luck. May I suggest that in the future if you purchase more zoa's, you do a lugol dip or even a fresh water dip before putting them in your display tank. Dip for about 5-8 minutes. Shake the colony in the fresh water several times. You will notice if the colony is infected. If it is, you may have to do more dips til there aren't any.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/23/2006, 03:44 PM

Oh thanks AVI.
Hope there are not any more nudi in the tank..

What is the drip method you are talking about. ?
Do you have a link please?

aquaman222 · 03/23/2006, 04:07 PM

I catch them with a turkey baster and then put them in an ashtray and light a match to make them pay for their sins. I am God in my tank, so I make up the rules.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/24/2006, 12:29 PM

Like you well said guys, I found more nudibranchs in my tank on my zoos. While I was looking to my tank in a sudden about 6 zoos polyps closed, and then I noticed a nudi passing on them.

I took the coral out of the water and catched the nudi, I have made more then 5 minutes trying to see more, then I saw other 2.

How I am going to rid of these bad inverts, is there a method to eliminate them from my system ?

Avi · 03/24/2006, 03:00 PM

If you're able to remove the zoanthid colonies from the reef, then the dips are probably your best bet, but follow instuctions here in RC for dipping closely. If you can't remove them, or, you don't want to take a chance with dipping, then you'll have to be persistent with the turkey baster like described above. It's important for the health of the corals that you do this persistently. But on the other hand, if you do, you will rid the tank of the pests.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/24/2006, 11:52 PM

AVI can you please give me a link of the zoanthids dips ?

Thanks alot.

Avi · 03/25/2006, 08:08 AM

Well, if you're going to consider a dip....dip in all the way and read this one:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=451720

CoMMaNdeR · 03/25/2006, 02:56 PM

Thanks AVI for the link.
In the thread MUCHO REEF said that he uses RO/DI water for dipping the zoos in with a PH of 8.4

Can someone tell me how can I raise the RO/DI water PH ?

Avi · 03/25/2006, 06:11 PM

Just put some baking soda in the water and test it if you want that precise reading. It'll do for that purpose.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/26/2006, 12:42 AM

The baking soda raises the PH right ?
You are reffering for the baking soda we buy from supermarket, sometimes included in cakes ?

Avi · 03/26/2006, 09:17 AM

Yes...that's it. It's available everywhere.

CoMMaNdeR · 03/31/2006, 04:44 PM

Ok, some days have passed and my zoos were doing great. My closed zoos rock was opening gradually along these last days, but upon a sudden, yesterday and finally today I noticed that a zoos rock . a part of it was closing..

Then after some time looking at it, I noticed some damn thing moving slowly on it. Oh nooooooooooo

..........Another nubi.... Put out the rock and pulled him out. Put also another that was nearby, more yellow ish... Then I noticed about 4-6 polyps black , that smelled alot and I thing the nubi had killed them..

AFter then I put the zoo rock again in the tank and after a minute or two I saw another nubi... Put the rock out again and pulled another nubi.. On no it's another nightmare.

Put the zoo rock again in it's place and hope it will not happen this again. What can I do guys to kill these nubi if there is some more in the tank ?

They are getting me crazy..arghhhhhhhhh

Avi · 03/31/2006, 05:55 PM

Too bad, man. Like I've said...you have to be really persistent...a few times a day....suck up the nudis and don't forget the eggs. It may be a hassle but it's better than being tied upside down from a tree in the desert over fire ants.

CoMMaNdeR · 04/01/2006, 12:20 AM

Yes very true AVI, but can I see a picture of their eggs because I don't know how are they ?

CoMMaNdeR · 06/17/2006, 10:22 AM

Guys I am really fed up of these horrible zoanthid-eating nudibranchs because I cannot eliminate them and always I see new ones even on the front glass.

The zoanthids are closed right now, they have been all closed for about a week. I am disperate. What can I do?

Is there any invert or fish that feeds on these ugly creatures?

03/23/2006, 07:35 AM	#1
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Zoos have been closed for a month A month ago I have bought a piece of zoanthids, brown/green and have rarely opened. Few of them have opened and then closed and never reopened. All corals in the tank are doing great. Yesterday I have bought another zoanthid coral and it opened after few hours. So my question is, why the other has been closed for all this time if parametres are fine, and even it is near the new one so they are having the same light etc ?

03/23/2006, 08:02 AM	#3
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Zoanthids can refuse to open for a few reasons, among them are zoanthid-eating nudibranchs. They are difficult to see because their shape lets them blend in with the skirt of the zoanthid polyp, so you have to look carefully. They look like this: Another thing that will frequently cause them not to open is a film that grows on them that can be micro-algae or a fungal growth....either may happen if there are elevated phosphates in the water of the reef and improving water quality and increasing the waterflow in the tank is the way to address this. It's a good idea to blast the zoanthids with water from a turkey baster to assure that detritus doesn't collect on them or between the polyps and micro-algaes don't have a chance to smother them. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/23/2006, 02:56 PM	#8
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	They breed like rabbits. That's really the reason why. And, because about a year and a half ago, I had a bout with them and I know that they will keep appearing and the idea is to deplete their numbers and finally eradicate them completely from your reef. The way to do this is to get them ALL, and also ALL of their eggs. There are lots of threads about these nasty creatures in the forums, particularly in the Zoanthid forum here in RC. There are dips that some people are successful with but I haven't used dips and defeated them with the turkey baster. That's because a lot of the zoanthids in my reef are epoxied to the rockwork so couldn't be removed for dipping. Oh, one other thing, CoMMaNdeR, I would discourage you from putting the coral near a power head to deal with the zoanthid-eating nudibranchs because that would likely just blow the nudibranch off the coral intot the water and then into your rockwork, to come back to your zoanthids very soon to continue doing damage and lay more eggs. The use of a turkey baster gives you the opportunity to "catch" the nudibranch if you should see one and then to discard it immediately. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR Last edited by Avi; 03/23/2006 at 03:19 PM.

03/23/2006, 03:42 PM	#9
ANNIESREEF Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 578	Commander, Avi is right. I now have a QT for this very reason. Nudi's are a zoanthid lovers nightmare. I do a fresh water dip for about 5 minutes every 3 days. Now I don't have any nudi's in the QT tank but some zoa's in my display couldn't be removed so I am watching patiently for any nudi's which I suck out with a pipette. Good luck. May I suggest that in the future if you purchase more zoa's, you do a lugol dip or even a fresh water dip before putting them in your display tank. Dip for about 5-8 minutes. Shake the colony in the fresh water several times. You will notice if the colony is infected. If it is, you may have to do more dips til there aren't any. __________________ "I don't need a remote control, I rather watch my tank!" Current Tank Info: using Remora Pro HO skimmer ,maxi-jet 900 powerhead & 2-400 powerhead, 45 lbs tonga live rock and 40 lbs live sand

03/23/2006, 04:07 PM	#11
aquaman222 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Gallatin, TN Posts: 351	I catch them with a turkey baster and then put them in an ashtray and light a match to make them pay for their sins. I am God in my tank, so I make up the rules. __________________ Five tangs in a 10 gallon. No problem, just use this Skilter filter. Good to go. Thanks Current Tank Info: 175 gallon mixed reef

03/23/2006, 07:38 AM	#2
Steffish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 175	Can you see anything on them? This happened to me when I first got flatworms. They were irritating the zoos and they kept on closing.

03/23/2006, 08:05 AM	#4
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	AVI I once saw that nudibranch in my tank.. Hmm If I see it again I will surely catch it. Water quality is fine.. I can see some hair algae growing near the zoos because this is a 4 month aquarium, nearly new one ..

03/23/2006, 08:08 AM	#5
adtravels you cant buy blue fingers Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,542	dwarf angels sometimes pick at them in my experience. Also i have had the nudibranch problem on some fluorecent green zoos they look remarkably like the polyps and can be 2 to 10mm in length take the zoos out put them in a bowl and shoot them with a baster when shut if there are nudis they will be in the bowl. It may take a few goes

03/23/2006, 12:53 PM	#7
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Bad or good news I don't know.. Today like you guys suggest I put out the coral out of water and saw that nudi eating a polyp. Arghh I throw it away.. I put the coral near the power head to see if I can pull out more but nothing came off. Hope there are not anymore of these things... AVI why do you thing if there is one nudi you think there are more ?

03/23/2006, 03:44 PM	#10
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Oh thanks AVI. Hope there are not any more nudi in the tank.. What is the drip method you are talking about. ? Do you have a link please?

03/24/2006, 12:29 PM	#12
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Like you well said guys, I found more nudibranchs in my tank on my zoos. While I was looking to my tank in a sudden about 6 zoos polyps closed, and then I noticed a nudi passing on them. I took the coral out of the water and catched the nudi, I have made more then 5 minutes trying to see more, then I saw other 2. How I am going to rid of these bad inverts, is there a method to eliminate them from my system ?

03/24/2006, 03:00 PM	#13
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	If you're able to remove the zoanthid colonies from the reef, then the dips are probably your best bet, but follow instuctions here in RC for dipping closely. If you can't remove them, or, you don't want to take a chance with dipping, then you'll have to be persistent with the turkey baster like described above. It's important for the health of the corals that you do this persistently. But on the other hand, if you do, you will rid the tank of the pests. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/24/2006, 11:52 PM	#14
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	AVI can you please give me a link of the zoanthids dips ? Thanks alot.

03/25/2006, 08:08 AM	#15
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Well, if you're going to consider a dip....dip in all the way and read this one: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=451720 __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/25/2006, 02:56 PM	#16
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Thanks AVI for the link. In the thread MUCHO REEF said that he uses RO/DI water for dipping the zoos in with a PH of 8.4 Can someone tell me how can I raise the RO/DI water PH ?

03/25/2006, 06:11 PM	#17
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Just put some baking soda in the water and test it if you want that precise reading. It'll do for that purpose. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/26/2006, 12:42 AM	#18
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	The baking soda raises the PH right ? You are reffering for the baking soda we buy from supermarket, sometimes included in cakes ?

03/26/2006, 09:17 AM	#19
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Yes...that's it. It's available everywhere. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/31/2006, 04:44 PM	#20
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Ok, some days have passed and my zoos were doing great. My closed zoos rock was opening gradually along these last days, but upon a sudden, yesterday and finally today I noticed that a zoos rock . a part of it was closing.. Then after some time looking at it, I noticed some damn thing moving slowly on it. Oh nooooooooooo ..........Another nubi.... Put out the rock and pulled him out. Put also another that was nearby, more yellow ish... Then I noticed about 4-6 polyps black , that smelled alot and I thing the nubi had killed them.. AFter then I put the zoo rock again in the tank and after a minute or two I saw another nubi... Put the rock out again and pulled another nubi.. On no it's another nightmare. Put the zoo rock again in it's place and hope it will not happen this again. What can I do guys to kill these nubi if there is some more in the tank ? They are getting me crazy..arghhhhhhhhh

03/31/2006, 05:55 PM	#21
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Too bad, man. Like I've said...you have to be really persistent...a few times a day....suck up the nudis and don't forget the eggs. It may be a hassle but it's better than being tied upside down from a tree in the desert over fire ants. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

04/01/2006, 12:20 AM	#22
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Yes very true AVI, but can I see a picture of their eggs because I don't know how are they ?

06/17/2006, 10:22 AM	#23
CoMMaNdeR Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 703	Guys I am really fed up of these horrible zoanthid-eating nudibranchs because I cannot eliminate them and always I see new ones even on the front glass. The zoanthids are closed right now, they have been all closed for about a week. I am disperate. What can I do? Is there any invert or fish that feeds on these ugly creatures?