Bioballs/Nitrates

[Sports Girl]

I've read in various threads about the association of bioballs with high nitrates. What is the cause of this? I have bioballs in my overflow and I have been having a problem w/nitrates lately. I've tried water changes, nitrate sponges and algae, all of which has only slightly lowered the nitrates. Could the bioballs be the problem? What should I use instead? I've seen live rock rubble suggested, anything else? Thanks in advance!

[Sk8r]

You have a live sandbed by now. DId you buy live rock? If you have a 4" deep sandbed [you can deepen it but should do so tablespoon a day] and 2 pounds of live rock per gallon [approximate: rock density varies wildly]---then you don't need the bioballs, or filters.

If you have the sandbed and rock, and a skimmer, withdraw the bioballs 3 at a time until there are none. No filter pads, no sponges, no forgotten carbon bags, nothing but the skimmer.

The reason: when an active sandbed digests fish detritus, the chemical process runs from nitrite to nitrate to gasses down in the layers of substrate that escape very slowly and harmlessly. When bioball bacteria digests the same, the chemical process runs from nitrite to nitrate, ammonia etc, but does not have anywhere to put the nitrate for further processing: it goes back into your tank.

It's why you never stir up a sandbed, no more than you let loose a septic tank. And its why you remove bioballs only a few at a time: right now your sandbed is weak, but as more food reaches it [food that the bioballs were converting to nitrate] it grows more bacteria of varied types to digest it. It gets stronger every day, and will gradually take on the whole load. You just don't want to overwhelm it and cause a crash.

HTH.

[Sports Girl]

I don't have a skimmer, does that matter?

[Sk8r]

MMM...I have no experience of not having a skimmer. You might take a look at a Remora: they hang on, if you don't have a sump.
Here's where I think we should hold out for some more opinions on this process. I know where your nitrate is coming from...but I'm not sure how your fish load will do without a skimmer. I hope you have a lot of bristle worms. They certainly help break things down fast. But some people do run skimmerless.

Opinions, anyone who's run a skimmerless tank?

[andyrew]

My tank was skimmerless for a year or so and everything was fine, but I did have a sump and a relatively low bioload. I personally like the idea of running skimmerless but over the long term the skimmer relieves a lot of pressure on your tank so I would definitely recommed getting one. As was said above Remoras are a good option, especially if you dont have a sump to put a skimmer in.

[Billybeau1]

You havent really explained what all you have. Bio-balls in its self do not cause nitrates. When you allow your pre=filter to let food and fish gunk get to the bio-balls, thats what makes nitrates.

Bio-balls do a very good job as long as you keep the junk out of the sump. You've got to clean your pre-filter often and make sure your sump stays clean.

if you have enough live rock for biological filtration, then you dont need bio-balls.

If you dont have live rock, I suggest you figure out a way to keep food and junk fron getting to your bio-balls.

[Billybeau1]

Also if you are concerned about nitrates, I suggest you really think about getting a good skimmer. Makes a world of differance.

[Sports Girl]

I have about 80 lbs. of live rock, but no skimmer, sump, or fuge. I've never run a skimmer, I have four small fish, (see current tank desc.). My main question is why are bioballs associated with high nitrates; in general? According to Billy, the answer is simply food and detritus not being filtered out before getting to the bioballs...?

[Billybeau1]

Thats my take on it. If you have no sump, where are your bio-balls ?

If you have 80 lbs of live rock in a 60 gal tank, I would think you have enough biological filtration where you don t need bio-balls.

[Sports Girl]

My filter is built-in to the back of the tank.

[Billybeau1]

Well if your tank is established,, with 80 lb of live rock, I would think you have enough biological filtration. You could slowly start removing the bio-balls and then once empty, maybe throw some macro-algae in there. Kinda like a mini-fuge.

Thats just my take. Get some more opinions since I cant picture your set up.

[Sports Girl]

That sounds like a good idea to me Billy, thank you. Give me a minute, I'll take some pics and post them to give you an idea.

[kevensquint]

Billybeau1 is right, but there is more to be told if you want the big picture. Bio-balls are a very effecient way of biologically converting ammonia to nitrites to nitrates. Since the balls are exposed to both water and air the bacteria that grow on them work very quickly at doing this conversion. Then you are left with nitrates, just like reefers who use LR only, except since thier LR is not exposed to the air the process is slower and at the same time there are anaerobic bacteria living within the LR that can help with destroying the nitrates. I use bio-balls, but I also use many other ways of processing all those nitrates, such has heavy skimming, macro-fuge, weekly WC's, a remote DSB (tank is a BB) and the LR itself. So you can remove the bioballs and slow the whole process down or keep them and add mecanisms to remove the nitrates at a fast pace as well. I opted for the latter, since I believe that more filtration would be better than less.

[dastratt]

With so much LR you don't need the bioballs. Just gradually remove them and run the filter without them. The LR performs the same function basically.

Any type of mechanical filter (pads, sock) needs to be cleaned regularly. I have an extra set and swap them out weekly. That may not be enough as I have some residual nitrate, but I do not have a DSB.

[Sports Girl]

Front of Tank 6/18/2006:


Water Input (Left Side of Tank):


Water Output (Right Side of Tank):

[Sports Girl]

Well, at least one good thing has come out of this thread. I've realized I need to clean the heck out of the back of my light fixture after looking at the pics above...

[Billybeau1]

HaHa. Yes you must have a sense of humor in this hobby, me thinks.

If you feel comfortable with the amount of live rock and sand you have, I would slowly remove the bio-balls (a few a day). Once empty, fill that chamber with some Chaeto (or the macroalgae of your choice) and set back and enjoy. Keep in mind you might have to light that chamber of your fuge to help the macro grow.

Plus as the macro starts to grow, you'll have to thin it out from time to time.

[Sk8r]

Oh, you're great for a fuge back there, and the bio-balls can come out. You can do a hang-on skimmer eventually---again, the Remora would do well. You're great with rock and sand, and that should knock the nitrate. Start a skimmer fund, and when you get to where you need it, just hang it on and plug it in.

[Billybeau1]

[Sports Girl]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice, 'ppreciate it!