Sump Questions

BreefMe · 10/23/2006, 11:53 AM

I know I need to set up a sump because I have live coral in one tank and I am soon to have live coral in the other. I have a couple of 10 gal tanks from the old days and wanted to convert these into sumps since they would be asked to handle a 50 gal and a 60 gal reef tank. One 10 gal tank for each reef tank.

These sumps would be below each tank in the storage area.

I think I can get passed the design, and know I want my protein skimmers to operate in the sump.

The real thing that baffles the heck out of me is the following:

You have a small flow of water going down to the sump. I am not sure of the best way to do this. Need help here?

Even more importantly, how do you get the water back up to the main tank when you are ready to and are able to balance with the rate of the water coming in? I know - a pump, but how?

The system has to be designed so it can never overflow for any reason. Can somebody help me here?

The guy at my LFS explained things to me a bit on Saturday, but it wasn't sinking in for some reason even though I consider myself able to figure such things out. I was dog tired at the time; that could have done it.

Thanks all.

Shagsbeard · 10/23/2006, 12:03 PM

No system can be designed so that it can never overflow for any reason, short of having a sump with more extra volume than the tank can dump into it. Your 10 gallon limit is the problem. You need a 20 gal or higher for a "worst case" sump. We drill holes in the line to break siphon in a power outage... imagine if a stupid snail was to cover that the moment the power was out...

BreefMe · 10/23/2006, 12:10 PM

^OK, no problem in upgrading to 20 gal. I still need to know about flow parameters getting water in and out of the sump.

msn711 · 10/23/2006, 12:11 PM

Check out melevsreef.com. Lots of explanation there. You'll need an overflow and a return pump. You can use flexible tubing instead of gluing pvc pipes. A small hole in your return line just below the water level in the main tank will help you avoid floods.

Steverino · 10/23/2006, 12:23 PM

For overflow: Do you have drilled bulkhead holes in your main tank? If so, the water stops flowing when it gets below those holes. You calculate how much water that is and make sure you have enough room for it in the sump. If you are using a hang-on type of system instead of drilled holes, there can be a hole drilled into the U-tube that siphons the water, so that the siphon is broken in the event that the water level of the main tank gets below that drilled hole. For the sump itself, there are designs in which you have you 10 gallon sump, but it is placed into a 30 gallon rubbermaid type of larger container. You have to determine how much water you are talking about if your tank does drain to it's lowest level. That would tell you if a 30 gallon rubbermaid tub is enough "overflow disaster room" i.e. the extra 20 gallons or so. Your pump would be in this 30 gallon container, the water drains down into the 10 gallon refugium, overflows into the 30 gallon tub, where it gets pumped back up into the tank. The refugium stuff is in the 10 gallon so can the skimmer. The pump volume is controlled by what size pump you get, and you can use a float to turn it off if the water level gets too low, you can set up the overflow in the main tank to adjust the volume coming down into the sump and adjust the volume going back up into the tank too using ball valves.

Steverino · 10/23/2006, 12:27 PM

If you still need more info, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=946542

That thread by MyCatsDrool did a good job of explaining most of your issues.

BreefMe · 10/23/2006, 12:41 PM

^Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate it.

10/23/2006, 11:53 AM	#1
BreefMe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Central NJ Posts: 194	Sump Questions I know I need to set up a sump because I have live coral in one tank and I am soon to have live coral in the other. I have a couple of 10 gal tanks from the old days and wanted to convert these into sumps since they would be asked to handle a 50 gal and a 60 gal reef tank. One 10 gal tank for each reef tank. These sumps would be below each tank in the storage area. I think I can get passed the design, and know I want my protein skimmers to operate in the sump. The real thing that baffles the heck out of me is the following: You have a small flow of water going down to the sump. I am not sure of the best way to do this. Need help here? Even more importantly, how do you get the water back up to the main tank when you are ready to and are able to balance with the rate of the water coming in? I know - a pump, but how? The system has to be designed so it can never overflow for any reason. Can somebody help me here? The guy at my LFS explained things to me a bit on Saturday, but it wasn't sinking in for some reason even though I consider myself able to figure such things out. I was dog tired at the time; that could have done it. Thanks all.

10/23/2006, 12:11 PM	#4
msn711 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Reynoldsburg, OH Posts: 974	Check out melevsreef.com. Lots of explanation there. You'll need an overflow and a return pump. You can use flexible tubing instead of gluing pvc pipes. A small hole in your return line just below the water level in the main tank will help you avoid floods. __________________ Shay Current Tank Info: 120 Deep Blue Pro

10/23/2006, 12:03 PM	#2
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	No system can be designed so that it can never overflow for any reason, short of having a sump with more extra volume than the tank can dump into it. Your 10 gallon limit is the problem. You need a 20 gal or higher for a "worst case" sump. We drill holes in the line to break siphon in a power outage... imagine if a stupid snail was to cover that the moment the power was out...

10/23/2006, 12:10 PM	#3
BreefMe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Central NJ Posts: 194	^OK, no problem in upgrading to 20 gal. I still need to know about flow parameters getting water in and out of the sump.

10/23/2006, 12:23 PM	#5
Steverino Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: western Chicagoland, IL Posts: 1,114	For overflow: Do you have drilled bulkhead holes in your main tank? If so, the water stops flowing when it gets below those holes. You calculate how much water that is and make sure you have enough room for it in the sump. If you are using a hang-on type of system instead of drilled holes, there can be a hole drilled into the U-tube that siphons the water, so that the siphon is broken in the event that the water level of the main tank gets below that drilled hole. For the sump itself, there are designs in which you have you 10 gallon sump, but it is placed into a 30 gallon rubbermaid type of larger container. You have to determine how much water you are talking about if your tank does drain to it's lowest level. That would tell you if a 30 gallon rubbermaid tub is enough "overflow disaster room" i.e. the extra 20 gallons or so. Your pump would be in this 30 gallon container, the water drains down into the 10 gallon refugium, overflows into the 30 gallon tub, where it gets pumped back up into the tank. The refugium stuff is in the 10 gallon so can the skimmer. The pump volume is controlled by what size pump you get, and you can use a float to turn it off if the water level gets too low, you can set up the overflow in the main tank to adjust the volume coming down into the sump and adjust the volume going back up into the tank too using ball valves.

10/23/2006, 12:27 PM	#6
Steverino Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: western Chicagoland, IL Posts: 1,114	If you still need more info, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=946542 That thread by MyCatsDrool did a good job of explaining most of your issues.

10/23/2006, 12:41 PM	#7
BreefMe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Central NJ Posts: 194	^Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate it.