Discouraged early

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 10:43 AM

I added my first fish to my tank last night. A spotted hawkfish who was a beauty. I watched him at the store eagerly eating brine shrimp by the numbers and seemed to be really active and healthy.

So I bought the little guy, brought him home, put the bag in the tank and checked my water.

pH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates 0.5
Nitrites: 0
Temp: 80
Salinity 1.027

Everything seemed to be in check. I acclimated him by adding a small cup full of tank water into the bag. After an hour I let him go into the tank...he hid for a while but came out more and more...I wokeup in the middle of the night (about 2 am) and he was perched on top of my rock structure looking good. I wakeup this morning he's dead on the bottom of the tank.

Any idea what could have happened to him? I feel terrible. It was such a beautiful fish.

Shagsbeard · 01/03/2007, 10:50 AM

Your acclimation should be done more gradually... add a little bit of tank water at a time. Also... what are you checking your water with... perhaps your tests are faulty. Salinity seems a bit high to me... and fish stores often keep their salinity low (saves money).

You might want to take a water sample (and the dead fish if you've kept it) back to the fish store where you got them and ask them to run some tests. Most stores have some policy about replacement of new fish.

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 10:56 AM

I should have acclimated more than an hour? The cup I used was a little plastic one about an inch tall.

Yea the salinity in the bag was much lower...that's why i did the hour instead of 15 minutes like I was told.

I didn't keep the dead fish. I highly doubt the store will replace it...they don't seem to be the greatest. I guess I'll take a water sample to the other fish store. Which is much better.

techreef · 01/03/2007, 11:08 AM

No, InvaderJim, you don't seem to understand acclimation fully. (no sarcasm meant here) Acclimating new additions to your tank (includes inverts, corals, and of course fish) is something that the more gradually and slowly you do it, the better. Adding one cup of tank water to the fish's bag one time, and letting it sit for an hour, really is not much better than adding that same cup of water to the bag, waiting 15 minutes, and then dumping the fish into your tank. With acclimation, what you want to be doing is slowly raising the salinity of the bag water to whatever level your tank water is. To do this, you add small amounts of tank water, typically 1/4 cup amounts, every 15 minutes, for at least 1 hour. A better way is to do the 1/4 cup additions until you double the amount of water in the fish bag, then go and dump out half of the water in the bag (being careful not to dump the fish too!) and then repeat the 1/4 cup additions until you've once again doubled the amount of bag water.

The best way to acclimate new additions is with a drip system using airline tubing to slowly drip tank water into the bag.

Do you see how this method is much more gradual than what you did? It gives the fish time to slowly adjust to the water quality of its new home. I hope this helps. Don't give up! You're water params look good to me. Just adjust your acclimation procedures a bit, and you should be fine.

techreef · 01/03/2007, 11:10 AM

I forgot to include another important step. First float the still-closed bag w/ your new fish in your tank water for at least 15 minutes, in order to get the bag water to the same temperature as your tank's water. Then open the bag and start your salinity acclimation procedures.

jmait769 · 01/03/2007, 11:15 AM

Jimmy - Sorry for the lose. Not sure if the acclimation was the cause of your fish death but when I acclimate a new fish I us a small diameter tube, like airline tubing, and drip tank water at the rate of a drop every few seconds into the bag. You can tie a knot at the end of the line or use a clothespin. After about an hour I will take about a half cup of the water from the bag and throw it away. I usually will do this for several hours.

I have done it as techreef has stated and that works well to.

Definitely have your water tested and test often.

HTH

Jay

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 11:15 AM

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I added a cup full of water to the bag periodically (I think that's where I messed up) using a tiny cup. I'm not quite sure how big it was though. It probably held less than 1/4 cup of water. I think I also messed up when I filled the bag up and dumped half the water out, but didn't fill it back up like you said.

How would I go about setting up a drip system? Or would I be ok with the 1/4 cup method?

I understand now where I went wrong.

mwwhite · 01/03/2007, 11:18 AM

Check www.liveaquaria.com for acclimation techniques. They recommend two methods - floating and drip. Drip for more sensitive livestock. Although they claim it's "advanced", I didn't think so and use this technique.

Float the bag in your display tank for at least 15 minutes to acclimate water temperature. Empty water and fish from bag into a bucket. Run a slowly-dripping syphon (2-4 drops per second) from your main tank to the bucket. You'll need a small diameter airline hose, with a knot or two which are used to adjust flow/drip rate. When the bucket water volume doubles, discard about half and resume the drip syphon. When it doubles again, it should be safe to move the animal from the bucket to your display tank.

The process takes an hour or so. The difference is that the chemistry of the water that the fish is in is changed more slowly - especially salinity and pH.

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by techreef
I forgot to include another important step. First float the still-closed bag w/ your new fish in your tank water for at least 15 minutes, in order to get the bag water to the same temperature as your tank's water. Then open the bag and start your salinity acclimation procedures.

I didn't forget about doing that.

techreef · 01/03/2007, 11:21 AM

Glad to help! You can just go buy some airline tubing from Home Depot or Lowes and make your own. An easier and still pretty cheap option is to buy one of these Pisces Acclimator kits. I have one, and it makes acclimating new stuff that much easier to do.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...Category_Code=

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 11:23 AM

Thanks for all the good information.

So to setup a drip system, I just need some airline hose to setup a siphon? Then tie a few knots in it to adjust the drip rate. Or I could buy one of those kits.

Next time I will defiantly be prepared much better.

05Xrunner · 01/03/2007, 11:24 AM

Well I dont think that killed him...I know i am gonna get flamed here and be shuned...I have never done more then just the 10min bag float for any fish i have ever bought. I never had any problems with any of my fish ever. I have had some die once in a while but that was after a week or so.
Maybe he was just sick and you didnt know. or he was just really freaked out in the new tank and died of stress that way.

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 11:27 AM

Very true, It Could be a combination of things. I never really trusted that store in the first place. But I have been looking for that fish for a while. It is very likely that he could have been sick as well.

chris.hampton · 01/03/2007, 12:15 PM

Did it have any marks or cuts on it when you took it out?

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 12:25 PM

Nope. I do have an Emerald crab though.

RTKBA308 · 01/03/2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by techreef
Glad to help! You can just go buy some airline tubing from Home Depot or Lowes and make your own. An easier and still pretty cheap option is to buy one of these Pisces Acclimator kits. I have one, and it makes acclimating new stuff that much easier to do.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...Category_Code=

Just ordered one

InvaderJim · 01/03/2007, 09:22 PM

Decided to give it another shot tonight. Purchased a True Percula from the LFS in town I love, and drip accilimated over about hour and 20 mintues (to be safe). He is in the tank swimming around checking everything out, swimming against the current back in forth in the tank. Looking good so far.

Here's what I did.

1. I floated the bag in the tank for about 20 minutes.
2. Cut open bag and poured contents into a bucket
3. Used airline tubing with 3 knots in it to get the drip rate just right
4. Drip accilimated until the water in the bucket had doubled, dumped half out, proceeded to let it refill.
5. Netted fish and put him in the tank.

Since my tank is so small I am remixing some saltwater I had stored to add to the tank what I took out.

sunfish11 · 01/04/2007, 06:35 PM

InvaderJim,

I just wonder what you are using to test your salinity. Some hydrometers can be way off and your salinity could actually be much higher than you are reading. Did you have your water checked at the store?

Hawkfish are pretty tough. I have to admit that I have also tossed quite a few fish into tank (hey, I am not proud of my laziness) after only floating the bag for awhile and I have never had an issue.

Lisa

BiggySmalls · 01/04/2007, 06:38 PM

invader jim, how big was the tank?

BiggySmalls · 01/04/2007, 08:09 PM

never mind

mullinsd2 · 08/16/2010, 10:35 PM

imho, temperature should not play a huge factor. Your tank should, and probably is in range of a desirable temperature. It will not harm the fish unless it is undesirably hot or cold. The sg on another hand can affect the live stock. Personally, the lfs that I buy from runs a desirable sg in the sps tank; therefore, I have nothing to worry about. i know that my dkh, alk, temp, lighting, and water quality are acceptable, so I do not even acclimate corals anymore. I just epoxy them to where I want them. This is because I know, and I trust the lfs live stock.

01/03/2007, 10:43 AM	#1
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	Discouraged early I added my first fish to my tank last night. A spotted hawkfish who was a beauty. I watched him at the store eagerly eating brine shrimp by the numbers and seemed to be really active and healthy. So I bought the little guy, brought him home, put the bag in the tank and checked my water. pH: 8.3 Ammonia: 0 Nitrates 0.5 Nitrites: 0 Temp: 80 Salinity 1.027 Everything seemed to be in check. I acclimated him by adding a small cup full of tank water into the bag. After an hour I let him go into the tank...he hid for a while but came out more and more...I wokeup in the middle of the night (about 2 am) and he was perched on top of my rock structure looking good. I wakeup this morning he's dead on the bottom of the tank. Any idea what could have happened to him? I feel terrible. It was such a beautiful fish.

01/03/2007, 11:15 AM	#6
jmait769 -CSHFLW Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 2,685	Jimmy - Sorry for the lose. Not sure if the acclimation was the cause of your fish death but when I acclimate a new fish I us a small diameter tube, like airline tubing, and drip tank water at the rate of a drop every few seconds into the bag. You can tie a knot at the end of the line or use a clothespin. After about an hour I will take about a half cup of the water from the bag and throw it away. I usually will do this for several hours. I have done it as techreef has stated and that works well to. Definitely have your water tested and test often. HTH Jay __________________ "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Alva Edison http://www.reeftronics.net/jay-m/reefcam Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon, Marco Rocks, 8x80W ATI Powermodule, Apex, Super Reef Octopus XP-3000 external

01/03/2007, 11:18 AM	#8
mwwhite Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land O Lakes, FL Posts: 690	Check www.liveaquaria.com for acclimation techniques. They recommend two methods - floating and drip. Drip for more sensitive livestock. Although they claim it's "advanced", I didn't think so and use this technique. Float the bag in your display tank for at least 15 minutes to acclimate water temperature. Empty water and fish from bag into a bucket. Run a slowly-dripping syphon (2-4 drops per second) from your main tank to the bucket. You'll need a small diameter airline hose, with a knot or two which are used to adjust flow/drip rate. When the bucket water volume doubles, discard about half and resume the drip syphon. When it doubles again, it should be safe to move the animal from the bucket to your display tank. The process takes an hour or so. The difference is that the chemistry of the water that the fish is in is changed more slowly - especially salinity and pH. __________________ gwen Current Tank Info: 150 Mixed reef (gone now)

01/03/2007, 12:15 PM	#14
chris.hampton Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 490	Did it have any marks or cuts on it when you took it out? __________________ Imagine how deep the ocean would be if there wasn’t any sponges!! Current Tank Info: 95 (UK) gal 2 years old and 10 gal with bangi babies!!!

01/03/2007, 10:50 AM	#2
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Your acclimation should be done more gradually... add a little bit of tank water at a time. Also... what are you checking your water with... perhaps your tests are faulty. Salinity seems a bit high to me... and fish stores often keep their salinity low (saves money). You might want to take a water sample (and the dead fish if you've kept it) back to the fish store where you got them and ask them to run some tests. Most stores have some policy about replacement of new fish.

01/03/2007, 10:56 AM	#3
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	I should have acclimated more than an hour? The cup I used was a little plastic one about an inch tall. Yea the salinity in the bag was much lower...that's why i did the hour instead of 15 minutes like I was told. I didn't keep the dead fish. I highly doubt the store will replace it...they don't seem to be the greatest. I guess I'll take a water sample to the other fish store. Which is much better.

01/03/2007, 11:08 AM	#4
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	No, InvaderJim, you don't seem to understand acclimation fully. (no sarcasm meant here) Acclimating new additions to your tank (includes inverts, corals, and of course fish) is something that the more gradually and slowly you do it, the better. Adding one cup of tank water to the fish's bag one time, and letting it sit for an hour, really is not much better than adding that same cup of water to the bag, waiting 15 minutes, and then dumping the fish into your tank. With acclimation, what you want to be doing is slowly raising the salinity of the bag water to whatever level your tank water is. To do this, you add small amounts of tank water, typically 1/4 cup amounts, every 15 minutes, for at least 1 hour. A better way is to do the 1/4 cup additions until you double the amount of water in the fish bag, then go and dump out half of the water in the bag (being careful not to dump the fish too!) and then repeat the 1/4 cup additions until you've once again doubled the amount of bag water. The best way to acclimate new additions is with a drip system using airline tubing to slowly drip tank water into the bag. Do you see how this method is much more gradual than what you did? It gives the fish time to slowly adjust to the water quality of its new home. I hope this helps. Don't give up! You're water params look good to me. Just adjust your acclimation procedures a bit, and you should be fine.

01/03/2007, 11:10 AM	#5
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	I forgot to include another important step. First float the still-closed bag w/ your new fish in your tank water for at least 15 minutes, in order to get the bag water to the same temperature as your tank's water. Then open the bag and start your salinity acclimation procedures.

01/03/2007, 11:21 AM	#10
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	Glad to help! You can just go buy some airline tubing from Home Depot or Lowes and make your own. An easier and still pretty cheap option is to buy one of these Pisces Acclimator kits. I have one, and it makes acclimating new stuff that much easier to do. http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...Category_Code=

01/03/2007, 11:23 AM	#11
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	Thanks for all the good information. So to setup a drip system, I just need some airline hose to setup a siphon? Then tie a few knots in it to adjust the drip rate. Or I could buy one of those kits. Next time I will defiantly be prepared much better.

01/03/2007, 11:24 AM	#12
05Xrunner Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 768	Well I dont think that killed him...I know i am gonna get flamed here and be shuned...I have never done more then just the 10min bag float for any fish i have ever bought. I never had any problems with any of my fish ever. I have had some die once in a while but that was after a week or so. Maybe he was just sick and you didnt know. or he was just really freaked out in the new tank and died of stress that way.

01/03/2007, 11:27 AM	#13
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	Very true, It Could be a combination of things. I never really trusted that store in the first place. But I have been looking for that fish for a while. It is very likely that he could have been sick as well.

01/03/2007, 12:25 PM	#15
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	Nope. I do have an Emerald crab though.

01/03/2007, 09:22 PM	#17
InvaderJim Coral Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,163	Decided to give it another shot tonight. Purchased a True Percula from the LFS in town I love, and drip accilimated over about hour and 20 mintues (to be safe). He is in the tank swimming around checking everything out, swimming against the current back in forth in the tank. Looking good so far. Here's what I did. 1. I floated the bag in the tank for about 20 minutes. 2. Cut open bag and poured contents into a bucket 3. Used airline tubing with 3 knots in it to get the drip rate just right 4. Drip accilimated until the water in the bucket had doubled, dumped half out, proceeded to let it refill. 5. Netted fish and put him in the tank. Since my tank is so small I am remixing some saltwater I had stored to add to the tank what I took out.

01/04/2007, 06:35 PM	#18
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	InvaderJim, I just wonder what you are using to test your salinity. Some hydrometers can be way off and your salinity could actually be much higher than you are reading. Did you have your water checked at the store? Hawkfish are pretty tough. I have to admit that I have also tossed quite a few fish into tank (hey, I am not proud of my laziness) after only floating the bag for awhile and I have never had an issue. Lisa

01/04/2007, 06:38 PM	#19
BiggySmalls Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chi-town Posts: 1,315	invader jim, how big was the tank?

01/04/2007, 08:09 PM	#20
BiggySmalls Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chi-town Posts: 1,315	never mind

08/16/2010, 10:35 PM	#21
mullinsd2 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 753	imho, temperature should not play a huge factor. Your tank should, and probably is in range of a desirable temperature. It will not harm the fish unless it is undesirably hot or cold. The sg on another hand can affect the live stock. Personally, the lfs that I buy from runs a desirable sg in the sps tank; therefore, I have nothing to worry about. i know that my dkh, alk, temp, lighting, and water quality are acceptable, so I do not even acclimate corals anymore. I just epoxy them to where I want them. This is because I know, and I trust the lfs live stock.