Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[hkgar]

Reactor ph is sensitive to 4 things

1. Bubbles per second or seconds per bubble
2. Size of bubble (controlled by low side tank pressure)
3. Effluent flow rate
4. Tank ph, i.e. the ph of the water entering the reactor.

Changing any one of the first 3 will change the ph. Thus the tuning.

Mine are 32ml/minute, 9.5 second between bubbles and 5psi pressure.
Tank stays at 176 9.8 dKh) and reactor ph steady at around 6.6, It lowers some at night when the tank ph drops, but comes back during the day.

Make small adjustments in bubble rate tell you see the reactor ph holding steady.

Simply put you want to get to the point where the CO2 is lowering the ph as quickly as the tank water increases the ph.

[gdemos]

My co2 tank is at 15psi. Never thought of limiting it. I have a 20' run from CO2 tank to reactor so I just assumed keeping the tank wide open made sense given the need to run pressure. If anything it seems I need to Increase bubble count to lower reactor pH.

Sorry to occupy this Masterflex thread with my tuning problems, yet I know for sure without the Masterflex my effluent would be all over the map!

[hkgar]

The pressure effects the bubble size, i.e. more pressure bigger bubble more CO2. Not sure the effect of the run length.

What is your time between bubbles.

Personally I wouldn't shut down if tank PH reaches a certain level.

[gdemos]

Bubble count at the regulator is too rapid to count, pretty much a machine gun pace ... But I found that I needed this high count to bring my reactor pH down. There is a crappy bubble count built on the reactor but it is inconsistent (meaning not regular in its cadence), maybe 70 bpm

[zachts]

Originally Posted by hkgar

The pressure effects the bubble size, i.e. more pressure bigger bubble more CO2. Not sure the effect of the run length.

What is your time between bubbles.

Personally I wouldn't shut down if tank PH reaches a certain level.

Run length should have minimal effect on pressure in the line.

[gdemos]

Ok I can buy that, yet am I correct in that the bubble count is really hinged upon the pH of the reactor, so therefore I need the high bubble count to hit my pH

Ah. So that pH climb in the reactor today, just got home to find my water blaster return pump had failed. Froze by carbonate (and I cleaned it two months ago). While I was at it tore down my skimmer. It was the next to freeze. I've gone through white outs due to precip before (kalk OD and 2 part OD). This is why I went with a reactor in the first place! Nightmare

Well she's clearing up now. Glad all I got to do with the effluent is press some buttons on the Masterflex.

Please tell me I can hit cruise control soon!

[james1990]

if you cleaned the return 2 months ago that's a pretty short period of time for the kalk/ 2 part to seize the pump. are you dropping them into a high flow area?

on a side note i will have my Masterflex controlled cal Rx in by the end of the month so I will post here with pics and reviews. tkeracer619 has been a huge help with everything and has a ton of hands on experience with this topic... and the hobby in general.

[james1990]

not trying to go off topic but we are discussing high quality dosing pumps here and I'm looking for one to dose Kalk. maybe the stenner?

[gdemos]

Knock on wood but looks like I finally got my Ca/CO3 reactor dialed in. Day four holding at 6.4 pH in reactor, 8.15 tank. 11.5 dKH 450 ppm very very steady. Before the Masterflex I would set the effluent at 120 mL/min and wake up to find it dry. Masterflex has been a critical component for my system. Optimistic that she has found a balance.

[jimmy n]

I think we've driven up the prices Hard to find the right pump in good shape for less than 600

[zachts]

Originally Posted by jimmy n

I think we've driven up the prices Hard to find the right pump in good shape for less than 600

Just have to be sneaky and quick!

[Joel_155]

Okay this is a thread I need to find time to read

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by gdemos

Knock on wood but looks like I finally got my Ca/CO3 reactor dialed in. Day four holding at 6.4 pH in reactor, 8.15 tank. 11.5 dKH 450 ppm very very steady. Before the Masterflex I would set the effluent at 120 mL/min and wake up to find it dry. Masterflex has been a critical component for my system. Optimistic that she has found a balance.

Awesome! Welcome to cruise control Sorry I have been a bit afk last week or so, work gets crazy from time to time.

Originally Posted by jimmy n

I think we've driven up the prices Hard to find the right pump in good shape for less than 600

Yup, I think we have to a point. They are definitely harder to find at a good price for the casual browser, when a good one pops up it sells quickly. Thus making it difficult for me to recommend them as easily as before. A couple times now by the time I linked the purchaser and they came online the pump was already gone.

Originally Posted by james1990

tkeracer619 has been a huge help with everything and has a ton of hands on experience with this topic... and the hobby in general.

Thanks

Originally Posted by zachts

Run length should have minimal effect on pressure in the line.

What it does do is creates a bit of lag between the input and output. You will find gas delivery to be a slight bit less consistent but in the end it should all even out once you get it happy. The optimal way to bring the regulator closer is remove the black box from the regulator and put a pressure rated hose between the two bringing the black box close to the reactor. The will allow better control of the individual bubbles. But since gdemos has (knocking on wood) found the happy spot I would leave it be for now.

[gdemos]

Yes I'm hoping my fidgeting is behind me. Week plus rock solid pH in reactor; Rick solid parameters in the tank. Happy spot indeed. Thank you all for the help. And now I'm in the market for another pump for my DT reactor.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by gdemos

Yes I'm hoping my fidgeting is behind me. Week plus rock solid pH in reactor; Rick solid parameters in the tank. Happy spot indeed. Thank you all for the help. And now I'm in the market for another pump for my DT reactor.

Good to hear. Happy hunting!

[mntnbighker]

I have found so far after a few months with my setup that my low side regulator is nowhere near stable enough to achieve cruise control. When tank pressure increases due to ambient rise my low side pressure changes as much as 2 PSI "less"? My regulator is highly sensitive to chamber pressure as well. I tried having the dosing pump on the outlet but until I moved it so it pressurizes the chamber the bubble size was all over the place. Generally speaking I find the Aquarium Plants regulator to be nowhere near as stable as I had hoped. The Aquarium Plants guy told me they designed the regulator for fresh water plant setups, and they never once attached one to a salt water tank. They sell them for that purpose, but have never seen one in house. So they have never tested them with a calcium reactor. I found that if the electronic regulator sees even a tiny vacuum, or even zero pressure, the bubble rate won't even coincide with the regulator pulse rate.

[gdemos]

for a while I was able to tune things so the solenoid was always On/Open.
but lately it has been cycling on/off; not sure why perhaps ambient conditions or the setup in general

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators

here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by gdemos

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators

here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

Thanks, so I added the defer statement, though I'm not sure I actually need it. My numbers don't fluctuate like yours do. BTW, If I set my low number to 6.4 I would have so much gas flow my circ pump would be cavitating all the time. The best I can do is the 6.5 range. And my pH hovers between 8 and 7.9 so my OFF number is 7.8.

[hkgar]

Tkeracer or anyone

Have you any experience with the Eshopps IV 200 Dosing Pump? Would it be a good alternative to a Cole Parmer.

http://www.eshopps.com/products/ivdosingpump/iv200/

I doubt the durability would be as good over a long period, but wonder what the experienced durability is. Maybe it is too new to have results?

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by gdemos

for a while I was able to tune things so the solenoid was always On/Open.
but lately it has been cycling on/off; not sure why perhaps ambient conditions or the setup in general

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators


here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

I don't understand why you are programming on/off statements in Apex? The whole idea of using the peristaltic pump is to maintain a constant PH without switching the regulator on and off.

[gdemos]

Sure that is logical, the concern being that without coding the solenoid on apex with a pH range mandates that your bubble count be spot on. Unfortunately I don't have time to monitor and tweak my bubble count as media melts that would call for a very regular check on bubble count. Instead I set the range (a fairly tight range) on pH and let it ride. Worse case there is on and off cycles and the solenoid takes some abuse and my chamber fluctuates within this tight range (not too concerned) That's my logic anyway but ur point is well taken. For me the Masterflex us all about consistency in effluent as I could not sustain any real control on effluent rate without it.

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by hkgar

I don't understand why you are programming on/off statements in Apex? The whole idea of using the peristaltic pump is to maintain a constant PH without switching the regulator on and off.

I have an absolutely stable effluent rate. My low side regulator pressure and bubble rate vary all over the place. Without pH control my reactor would vary wildly and I would never see anything like a stable dose of calcium/alk. It's possible that if I ditch the Aquarium Plants regulator in favor of a different lab grade regulator this might be possible. But certainly not with my current setup. As far as I can tell, the only variable I am not controlling, and the cause of the fluctuations, is ambient temperature in the room. Bottom line, if you don't have a constant bubble rate you will never have a constant reactor pH.

[mntnbighker]

Quick correction.. when I said my bubble "rate" varies, the electronic controller makes the bubble "rate" stable. But my bubble volume varies wildly. I actually believe my electronic regulator may be defective. But the guy at Aquarium Plants is adamant that these regulators are dead reliable, and us reef hobbyists are using them incorrectly. As long as you can drop the tube in a glass of water and see a consistent bubble rate there is nothing wrong with it. I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to stare at the bubbles for 2 or 3 days solid, to see the bubble size change over time with tank temperature (and pressure) changes.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

Quick correction.. when I said my bubble "rate" varies, the electronic controller makes the bubble "rate" stable. But my bubble volume varies wildly. I actually believe my electronic regulator may be defective. But the guy at Aquarium Plants is adamant that these regulators are dead reliable, and us reef hobbyists are using them incorrectly. As long as you can drop the tube in a glass of water and see a consistent bubble rate there is nothing wrong with it. I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to stare at the bubbles for 2 or 3 days solid, to see the bubble size change over time with tank temperature (and pressure) changes.

Does the low side pressure vary? My low side pressure is 7 PSI and it just never changes. I also have the Aquarium Plant regulator and absolutely no problems.

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Does the low side pressure vary? My low side pressure is 7 PSI and it just never changes. I also have the Aquarium Plant regulator and absolutely no problems.

Every time the ambient temperature causes the tank pressure to change, my low side pressure changes too. The most low side pressure I can run is about 4 psi or else the bubble "size" becomes a stream of bubbles in between each pulse. So when the ambient goes up I actually get less low side pressure. If I adjust it, then the low side skyrockets when the tank pressure drops back down.

How much does your ambient vary? Do you have HVAC controlled room temperature? My living room may go from 65F at night to 95F in the day. I have no AC, only heat. But I have a chiller for the tank.