Idea for Faux sand bed. Envirotex Lite high gloss finish. - Page 10

musicsmaker · 02/21/2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvguy
So I now have a 240g tank that is garbage

Could be used as a reptile tank. Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvguy
It is a all glass tank with foam under the stand.

Two questions:

1 ~ Do you mean a piece of foam between the tank and stand?

2 ~ Does the tank have molding around the top and bottom?

hdtvguy · 02/21/2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by musicsmaker
Could be used as a reptile tank. Just a thought.

Two questions:

1 ~ Do you mean a piece of foam between the tank and stand?

2 ~ Does the tank have molding around the top and bottom?

Yes I had a 1" foam on the top of the stand that the glass bottom rested on.

No moldings it was a all glass tank.

ravenmore · 02/21/2005, 08:18 PM

man that sux - sorry to hear that dude.

ravenmore · 02/21/2005, 08:18 PM

man that sux - sorry to hear that dude.

musicsmaker · 02/21/2005, 08:20 PM

PS ~ I too think that sux.

spamin76 · 02/22/2005, 10:38 AM

Wow - how much epoxy did you use?? How deep of a sandbad did you make?

Thales · 02/22/2005, 10:43 AM

Arg! Thats horrible.

I think I am going to cast mine in three sections.

Carl_in_Florida · 02/22/2005, 10:46 AM

hdtvguy - I just saw your sig... 300 WOOHOO!

hdtvguy · 02/22/2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spamin76
Wow - how much epoxy did you use?? How deep of a sandbad did you make?

I used 1 1/2 gallons epoxy. I would say the sand was under 1/4"

New tank will have 3/4" low Iron glass (Opti- white)

shred5 · 02/22/2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvguy
Well all I can say let this be a warning to anyone thinking of doing this.

I did this on my 240g a few days ago let the epoxy and sand mix dry the required time 4 days. I vacuumed all the left over sand out of the tank.

I filled the tank with around 80 gallons of tap water to get the dust out.

I started to hear loud cracks coming from the tank for over an hour. I thought it was just the epoxy from the cold tap water.

Well about an hour later I look over the tank and see water leaking off the stand.

Well the whole bottom glass cracked from the epoxy sand mix

I think if you are going to do this use something on the bottom of the glass so the epoxy does not crack and take the glass with it.

So I now have a 240g tank that is garbage

I was able to get the water out quick with a big 6.5Hp 18g Shop Vac so I had no water damage to my floor in my living room.

I hope my home insurance will cover the tank. I did have insurance on it.

Let this be a warning to anyone thinking of doing this. I posted this so hopefully no one else has this happened.

WOW Sorry to hear that.. You can get a new peice of glass cut and installed on the bottom... Might be more work than what it is worth though...

Dave

hdtvguy · 02/22/2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shred5
WOW Sorry to hear that.. You can get a new peice of glass cut and installed on the bottom... Might be more work than what it is worth though...

Dave

Thanks,

I don't think it would be worth the time. That epoxy sand mix is rock solid. Getting it off the sides, front back etc. It would be to time consuming.

shred5 · 02/22/2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvguy
Thanks,

I don't think it would be worth the time. That epoxy sand mix is rock solid. Getting it off the sides, front back etc. It would be to time consuming.

Didnt think about that.. What do you think caused it... do you thing the epoxy could not handle the weight and cracked taking the glass with it... Glass can bow a little, maybe the epoxy can not....

Dave

RonSF · 02/22/2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shred5
Didnt think about that.. What do you think caused it... do you thing the epoxy could not handle the weight and cracked taking the glass with it... Glass can bow a little, maybe the epoxy can not....

It is definately not the brittleness of the epoxy that caused it. Epoxy is extremely flexible and it never snaps like polyester resin can. My bet is still on heat induced stress from the curing process if indeed it was caused by the faux sandbed itself.

Rich-
If it was caused by heat, you might actually be making matters worse by heating one portion of the glass independently of another. I would think that the solution would be to do it in thinner layers so that the heat would be more dissipated, but evenly distributed across the surface of the glass.

Brad524 · 02/22/2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvguy
Thanks,

I don't think it would be worth the time. That epoxy sand mix is rock solid. Getting it off the sides, front back etc. It would be to time consuming.

unless you sanded the edges it may be easier than you think .
the epoxy may bond with smooth glass but it doesn't do it very well. I wouldn't be suprised if huge pieces came off easily

the silicone would come off with it though
so maybe your right

maybe Randy could illaborate on the cause of this ( crack )

spamin76 · 02/22/2005, 11:47 AM

I would think that tempered glass would be pretty resillient to the heat change caused by the epoxy... Is it possible that the tank already had a defect or something?

Brad524 · 02/22/2005, 11:57 AM

so how about any others that tried this
are they still good to go

RonSF · 02/22/2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spamin76
I would think that tempered glass would be pretty resillient to the heat change caused by the epoxy... Is it possible that the tank already had a defect or something?

I missed it if he said the bottom was tempered glass. If so, then I agree that the heat would have been an unlikely cause for the failure. I know, though, that with my custom 6'x2'x2' eurobraced glass tank a tempered bottom was an upgrade. I upgraded to a tempered bottom because of the added strength and the fact that I have a lot of holes for a closed loop.

Keep in mind, folks, that epoxy is what the most durable surfboards are coated with. Polyester skinned surfboards are more common, but the really bulletproof boards are skinned with a reasonably thin membrane of epoxy over urethane foam and take a serious beating before they crack. A surfboard can go from the hot sun on top of a car rack to the brisk water of Northern California without any fear of cracking.

Thales · 02/22/2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonSF

Rich-
If it was caused by heat, you might actually be making matters worse by heating one portion of the glass independently of another. I would think that the solution would be to do it in thinner layers so that the heat would be more dissipated, but evenly distributed across the surface of the glass. [/B]

Yep - I meant cast three sections outside of the tank. Sorry I was clear!
The thought of the epoxy heating the silicone joints makes me uneasy.

RonSF · 02/22/2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lefty
Sorry I was clear!

LOL
Sounds like a good plan, though. I'd think that a final layer of epoxy and sand over the joints, once the three pieces are in place, would make for a safe and attractive gameplan. The part that I can't decide is whether I'm concerned enough about trapping ugly and harmful detritus between the FSB and the glass to cast in place instead of making it a drop in bottom. The cast in place method is bound to look better and be less maintenence, but it is a pretty big commitment in a new $2k tank! Ah, the quandries of being at the bleeding edge of progress.

Thales · 02/22/2005, 12:43 PM

I think the risk of trapping detritus is less with pre cast FSB sections, that it is with Starboard - the Starboard bends while the epoxy won't. Also, I just cant see it trapping any significant amount of detritus.
I am also concerned about weight of a cast in place FSB in regards to moving the tank!

Now...on to the bleeding edge of circulation!

MarkM3 · 02/22/2005, 01:10 PM

I've tried the epoxy method in a 100 gallon tempered bottom, and a 40 untempered bottom- heat from curing was never an issue. . . but weight was (added about 30-50 pounds to my already 120-160 pound tank!)

hdtvguy · 02/22/2005, 01:23 PM

My tanks bottom was not tempered. I really think it was from the very cold tap water that I put in the tank. Winters get very cold here and the cold water supply makes the water even colder.

The thing is I heard cracking all over the tank. I could see the cracking of the epoxy pulling away from the tanks edges.

The thing is it only cracked on the right side of the tank. Was this the weak spot of the glass? I would have to say yes because glass will crack in the weakest spot and then spread.

I posted this in hopes that nobody else has to go through what I did and loose a tank of this size.

docjay · 02/22/2005, 04:32 PM

I'm still waiting a few more days for mine to cure. Although hdtvguy's experience has made me nervous, I'm optimistic that my tank will be fine. I'm planning to fill it this weekend. I'll report back on what happens either way.

Jay

pickle311 · 02/22/2005, 07:06 PM

I'm still planning to go this route on my 120. It's 1/2" acrylic all the way around, do you think I'll have any problems applying the epoxy directly to the bottom, or should I use some 1/4" acrylic on the bottom?

hdtvguy · 02/22/2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pickle311
I'm still planning to go this route on my 120. It's 1/2" acrylic all the way around, do you think I'll have any problems applying the epoxy directly to the bottom, or should I use some 1/4" acrylic on the bottom?

Sorry I have no experience with acrylic.

02/21/2005, 08:18 PM	#228
ravenmore Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Austin TX Posts: 1,590	man that sux - sorry to hear that dude. __________________ Mean people are like slinkys. They're really not worth much but still are entertaining to watch tumble down the stairs. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon reef tank in progress

02/21/2005, 08:18 PM	#229
ravenmore Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Austin TX Posts: 1,590	man that sux - sorry to hear that dude. __________________ Mean people are like slinkys. They're really not worth much but still are entertaining to watch tumble down the stairs. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon reef tank in progress

02/21/2005, 08:20 PM	#230
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	PS ~ I too think that sux. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

02/22/2005, 10:38 AM	#231
spamin76 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: University of Cincinnati Posts: 3,715	Wow - how much epoxy did you use?? How deep of a sandbad did you make? __________________ Humuhumunukunukuapua'a! Current Tank Info: 24g nano reef

02/22/2005, 10:43 AM	#232
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	Arg! Thats horrible. I think I am going to cast mine in three sections. __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

02/22/2005, 10:46 AM	#233
Carl_in_Florida Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Delray Beach, Fl Posts: 2,348	hdtvguy - I just saw your sig... 300 WOOHOO! __________________ Stupid should be painful

02/22/2005, 11:47 AM	#240
spamin76 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: University of Cincinnati Posts: 3,715	I would think that tempered glass would be pretty resillient to the heat change caused by the epoxy... Is it possible that the tank already had a defect or something? __________________ Humuhumunukunukuapua'a! Current Tank Info: 24g nano reef

02/22/2005, 11:57 AM	#241
Brad524 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: near Wisconsin Dells Posts: 326	so how about any others that tried this are they still good to go __________________ After tons and tons and tons of research I still know nothing Together Everyone Acheives More Current Tank Info: Planning monster tank

02/22/2005, 12:43 PM	#245
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	I think the risk of trapping detritus is less with pre cast FSB sections, that it is with Starboard - the Starboard bends while the epoxy won't. Also, I just cant see it trapping any significant amount of detritus. I am also concerned about weight of a cast in place FSB in regards to moving the tank! Now...on to the bleeding edge of circulation! __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

02/22/2005, 01:10 PM	#246
MarkM3 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 402	I've tried the epoxy method in a 100 gallon tempered bottom, and a 40 untempered bottom- heat from curing was never an issue. . . but weight was (added about 30-50 pounds to my already 120-160 pound tank!)

02/22/2005, 01:23 PM	#247
hdtvguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Winnipeg,Canada Posts: 1,287	My tanks bottom was not tempered. I really think it was from the very cold tap water that I put in the tank. Winters get very cold here and the cold water supply makes the water even colder. The thing is I heard cracking all over the tank. I could see the cracking of the epoxy pulling away from the tanks edges. The thing is it only cracked on the right side of the tank. Was this the weak spot of the glass? I would have to say yes because glass will crack in the weakest spot and then spread. I posted this in hopes that nobody else has to go through what I did and loose a tank of this size.

02/22/2005, 04:32 PM	#248
docjay Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 196	I'm still waiting a few more days for mine to cure. Although hdtvguy's experience has made me nervous, I'm optimistic that my tank will be fine. I'm planning to fill it this weekend. I'll report back on what happens either way. Jay

02/22/2005, 07:06 PM	#249
pickle311 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin TX...Finally Posts: 981	I'm still planning to go this route on my 120. It's 1/2" acrylic all the way around, do you think I'll have any problems applying the epoxy directly to the bottom, or should I use some 1/4" acrylic on the bottom?