Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

I have considered flame scallops, and studied them a bit. I'd love to have one. Right now I'm looking at filter feeders that eat particulate, rather than dissolved organinics. So, I'm going to try some feather duster worms. My tank is still accumulating detritus, so I'm trying to fill that niche with appropriate detritus/particualte feeders.

[Chasmodes]

Subsea, that sea apple is really cool. Nice vid and tank!

[Michael Hoaster]

I've got some duster clusters on the way! Feather duster worms filter particulates. Since I am accumulating particulates/detritus/mulm, these would seem to be helpful in reducing the buildup. I'm kind of excited about getting these growing on the fake root. It should look pretty cool!

I also ordered a red tree sponge. I know they are difficult, but I started getting some growth out of the last one I had, before I treated the tank with hypo. I've been studying up, so we'll see!

I've been VERY tempted to get some new fish into QT. But I want to give it more time to cycle. I don't want to add to their considerable acclimation stress, with nitrite poisoning! I'm not settling for anything less than ideal conditions, so no impulse buys!

[Subsea]

Would bristle worms help with detritus. Do spaghetti worms as suspension feeders capture paerticulate. However, I agree with you, I much rather “feathers in the air” than “hairs in the sand”.

It has taken my red tree sponges a month to get right. I suggest high current to blow off stuff. It was quite unsightly. Sometimes I even assisted with a soft tooth brush.

Sorry. My picture posting skills are weak. I think that my resolution is too detailed and uses too much file. When I learn to adjust settings, I will be back with pictures.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, I think bristle worms would help. I had them in my last tank, and they just got out of hand-they were everywhere! I admit I think they are ugly, and I'm pretty happy that none have shown up. I'm hoping to get some reproducing micro brittle stars instead. Spaghetti and other sand-dwelling worms do capture particulates. I'm trying to diversify my particulate/detritus crew, to see if I can get the buildup to stop. I'm hoping that a diverse crew can accomplish this.

I see in another thread, you are attempting a Chili Coral, in your new cryptic refugium. I look forward to following your progress, as they are another particulate filter feeder that Steve Tyree mentioned in his book. Good luck!

The red tree sponge should be right at home in the dimmer end of my tank. I'm hoping this one is attached to a rock. Otherwise, it is difficult to get the sponge 'planted' in a stable position. Given that hitchhiker live rock sponges have done well in my tank, I think there is plenty of food for them to eat.

The duster clusters and sponge should be here tomorrow. Stoked!

[McPuff]

Don't remember if you have a cucumber (or more) but this may also be something to consider. The caribbean/florida sea cucumber eat sand (and poop it back out clean) so this would be a cool option to help keep the upper layer of sand clean. They are ugly but that also makes them cool in my opinion. :0)

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Yes, I think bristle worms would help. I had them in my last tank, and they just got out of hand-they were everywhere! I admit I think they are ugly, and I'm pretty happy that none have shown up. I'm hoping to get some reproducing micro brittle stars instead. Spaghetti and other sand-dwelling worms do capture particulates. I'm trying to diversify my particulate/detritus crew, to see if I can get the buildup to stop. I'm hoping that a diverse crew can accomplish this.

I see in another thread, you are attempting a Chili Coral, in your new cryptic refugium. I look forward to following your progress, as they are another particulate filter feeder that Steve Tyree mentioned in his book. Good luck!

The red tree sponge should be right at home in the dimmer end of my tank. I'm hoping this one is attached to a rock. Otherwise, it is difficult to get the sponge 'planted' in a stable position. Given that hitchhiker live rock sponges have done well in my tank, I think there is plenty of food for them to eat.

The duster clusters and sponge should be here tomorrow. Stoked!

[Chasmodes]

Michael, the new additions should make for a very interesting view on future pics from your dark view photo angle, and fun to watch.

[Michael Hoaster]

McPuff, I do have a cucumber. It's a pretty, white one! He's doing a good job, except he doesn't like the bright light over the DSB, which is where I need him the most. So, occasionally, I move him there.

Chasmodes, I agree! Can't wait!

[Michael Hoaster]

Well, I got my order in from Aquarium Depot. The duster clusters were very small, and the sponge isn't in great shape, but they're in.

[Michael Hoaster]

I've been having a diatom bloom for the last several days. I think it was caused by my silicate dosing, and possibly the brighter light. I did a partial water change and added charcoal and GFO to my canister filter. Diatoms are easy to clean but not easy to export, which I need to do. Last night I figured out an export solution. Towards the end of the day, a lot of it pearls then rises to the surface. I noticed a lot was collecting up there, so I took a net to it and voila! Diatoms exported! I also added some phytoplankton for the filter feeders, in hopes that they will suck up more silicates.

[Michael Hoaster]

Pretty quiet, here in the macro section lately! Me, I have to keep posting. It's therapeutic! And it helps me keep up with all my ideas…

As I have noted, I still have some detritus buildup in my tank. I've been researching detrivores and particulate filter feeders, to fill out this critical niche in the ecosystem. One critter I've been interested in for a long time, but never made an effort to get is the Mysis Shrimp. Well today I've made an effort. I have ordered 200 of them, and they should arrive on Wednesday!

From what I've read, they're good detrivores, interesting to watch, and with luck they may reproduce. It would be awesome to get a stable population, keeping detritus down, while also providing a live, hunt-able food source for all my little carnivores.

I'm dying to get new fish, but I'm cycling my QT, so I wanted to take this time to fill in the gaps in the food chain, before the fish parade.

[Subsea]

Michael, you should strongly consider a Sea Apple. I have kept them for more than 2 years with a less developed bio diverse system than you have. I have had them die in a tank and decompose for several days while I was away. When I pulled out Sea Apple, it was more than foul smelling, if was putrid smelling. Consider this, they eat a gumbo of detritus, bacteria and larvae of all sizes. Sounds like what we grow in our tanks.

[Pandagobyguy]

Originally Posted by Subsea

Michael, you should strongly consider a Sea Apple. I have kept them for more than 2 years with a less developed bio diverse system than you have. I have had them die in a tank and decompose for several days while I was away. When I pulled out Sea Apple, it was more than foul smelling, if was putrid smelling. Consider this, they eat a gumbo of detritus, bacteria and larvae of all sizes. Sounds like what we grow in our tanks.

No poison issue? I've always heard they kill everything when they die

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the suggestion, Subsea! I have done a little reading on sea apples. Very interesting creatures. They don't really qualify as particulate feeders though, and that's what I need. They eat phytoplankton, and a lot of it. So rather than helping out with particulate consumption, they compete with other dissolved organic matter consumers, like sponges. I do feed phytoplankton occasionally, but sea apples need it daily, or they gradually shrink and starve to death. I cannot justify the cost of keeping them well fed, in my situation.

If I had a phyto grow out setup it might be worth it, but I don't.

[Subsea]

While I have not read anything about apples other than what Live Aquaria says. From my observation while keeping them healthy for two years, they feed on large particulate captured in the water column. I will see if I can find a video of an Apple feeding. It was pure synchronized choreography. With a row of arms surrounding mouth and extending out to end with capture small tentacles. When tentacles capture food, the signal to ingest, triggers the arm to bend inward to the mouth. Tentacles must be completely inserted in mouth triggering mouth closing as tentacles are withdrawn scraping off food from tentacles. As one arm is withdrawn the next arm is bending inward.

[Michael Hoaster]

Their feeding process does sound balletic! All, while they breath through their anus!

Here is the best article I found on sea apples: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/inverts

I agree with Dr. Toonen's assessment of them. I'm sure they catch a lot of particulates, but their gut contents are all phytoplankton basically. So their needs are beyond my level of care.

[Subsea]

Outstanding article. My two year success with apples hardly compares to a normal lifespan of 30 yrs.

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Pretty quiet, here in the macro section lately! Me, I have to keep posting. It's therapeutic! And it helps me keep up with all my ideas…

Sorry, been away from the PC for several days. I went on a fishing trip one day, while the others were occupied by family happenings. I'm caught up now. After adding those mysis shrimp, you should have a really fat gramma! How big are the shrimp that you'll be adding?

I like the idea, similar to me adding grass shrimp. In my tank, my numbers of shrimp have dropped. Some of that could be predation, but I suspect that some are dying of old age, then being eaten. I read that they only live about a year, so since most were adult shrimp when I collected them, I should only expect about 6 months or so. I need to keep collecting all winter perhaps, to keep the numbers up. The most I've had at a time in one tank was a couple dozen.

[Michael Hoaster]

Glad you liked the article, Subsea. Good info.

They're sending me adults, so I'm guessing they're in the half inch range, Chasmodes. Yes, I agree, all the fish should enjoy them! I'm also hoping I can maintain a population that will aide in detritus consumption. Ideally, they'll become important members of the crew.

I had some of the shrimp in the one inch range, that brineshrimpdotcom sells. They lasted awhile, but eventually got wiped out. I'm hoping the mysids' speed and small size, combined with heavy macro growth, will allow them to survive predation.

I should have them tomorrow!

[McPuff]

I like the idea of having a thriving population of shrimp to serve multiple purposes. I'm not sure I could accomplish this in my current set up but I suppose it's possible in a chaeto-filled refugium? Would be a great source of food for the fish. :0)

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, McPuff, I'm kind of venturing into the unknown with the mysis. But I have wanted to try them in my tank for a long time. Detritus consumption, live fish food, additional diversity and additional visual interest are all reasons to try them. I think the key to their survival long term is reproduction. From what I've read, they can be prolific. I hope so!

[Chasmodes]

I noticed in my 20g high that one of my grass shrimp has a ton of eggs... we will see. If they hatch, I might have to cut off the mechanical filtration for a while. That is, if the mummichogs don't eat all of the new born shrimp first. The blennies used to eat the eggs right off the abdomen of the shrimp and not eat the shrimp. Weird, but the eggs must be a lot more tasty than the adult shrimp.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Chasmodes

I noticed in my 20g high that one of my grass shrimp has a ton of eggs... we will see. If they hatch, I might have to cut off the mechanical filtration for a while. That is, if the mummichogs don't eat all of the new born shrimp first. The blennies used to eat the eggs right off the abdomen of the shrimp and not eat the shrimp. Weird, but the eggs must be a lot more tasty than the adult shrimp.

Caviar! Good for them. Too salty for me.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Glad you liked the article, Subsea. Good info.

They're sending me adults, so I'm guessing they're in the half inch range, Chasmodes. Yes, I agree, all the fish should enjoy them! I'm also hoping I can maintain a population that will aide in detritus consumption. Ideally, they'll become important members of the crew.

I had some of the shrimp in the one inch range, that brineshrimpdotcom sells. They lasted awhile, but eventually got wiped out. I'm hoping the mysids' speed and small size, combined with heavy macro growth, will allow them to survive predation.

I should have them tomorrow!

With respect to grass shrimp, is it this species? I have collected these in both fresh water and salt water marshes. These feeder janitors are winter hardy and will solve my outside growout production of live food. They are collected from Long Island to the Gulf of Mexico. I will attempt to quick start the process by collecting in the Austin area and adjust shrimp to full strength salt. Mollies and shrimp will be the “apex predators” in their own tanks with macro and pods.

https://www.livebrineshrimp.com/ShrimpJanitor.htm

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Their feeding process does sound balletic! All, while they breath through their anus!

Here is the best article I found on sea apples: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/inverts

I agree with Dr. Toonen's assessment of them. I'm sure they catch a lot of particulates, but their gut contents are all phytoplankton basically. So their needs are beyond my level of care.

Interesting comment on the apples anus. Two days ago, I saw the new Thor movie. Toward the end, Thor comes to the rescue through “The Devils’s Anus”.

Twenty years ago, I read an article by Anthony Calfo on macro refugiums producing a “type of phytoplankton”. He called them “Vegetable Filters”.

This link discusses those dynamics.
http://www.fondriest.com/environment...ophyll/#algae5