Have ICH looky here!!!!! - Page 17

jason2459 · 11/19/2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

probably lost in the length of this thread but one of the original concepts worth mentioning again was that there were three generally accepted methods of treatment for ich---all requiring a quarantine tank:

....

Totally agree. I mentioned all I got from the ich attack stuff was a good case of cyano. That stuff is 100% organic according to them. Which to me means that if you go by how they want you to dose you'll be adding in a LOT of nutrients that will break down to good ol nitrates and phosphates plus who knows what else is in the product as they do not give an ingredient break down. They also mention to keep dosing three days after you see the ich disappear. Again, to me, that sounds like lets just keep dosing until the ich falls off the fish in the ich's natural life cycle and say it worked. There may be something in the product that helps boost the fish's immune system to fight off another infestation on them like garlic seems too but who knows. I really don't think it kills or stops the ich life cycle. At least that's been my experience.

But if someone wants to try it then good luck and there's the website above on what Kordon recommends.

Blinkgyrl2987 · 05/02/2011, 10:14 AM

Currently this hobby revolves around the use of chemicals for disease treament. Thats the way its been done for 40 some plus years. Personally I think the hobby could be more successful without them. It would involve independent filtration. LFS's and all the chains such as petsmart and Petco would have their tanks separated and not have all the water, fish and disease being ran together. Wholesalers would also have to cooperate and not use the copper and formaldehyde that they do. I can't name how many times I've gone and purchased fish and ended up with Ich. Its really sad and takes the fun out of the hobby, but all the chemicals do is kill more fish (if the fish are strong enough to survive treatment they still sustain damage). Better chemical free ways of treating fish are on the cutting edge right now, hopefully we can get everyone on board and not have to use the chemicals anymore. What an improvement for this hobby that would be =)

The wholesalers use high levels of copper and formaldehyde for LONG periods of time as preventative measures (this is how they ensure that their fish are shipped parasite free). But what good does it do if all these fish go to infected LFS systems all over the states?Most of these fish are now more susceptible to disease at the pet stores because they've been weakened from chemical treatment. My biggest hangup with the chemical use are the negative side effects. Both copper and formaldehye effect the fish's gills, liver and kidneys, essentially weakening the fish.

The other thing is that when I say all the disease free fish get shipped from the wholesaler to the LFS, what i really mean is: the fish that survive the high levels of copper at the wholesaler get shipped. Many fish die before even making it to your LFS because of the damage they sustain after chemical treatment.

I know chemicals have been one of the predominent treatment methods in the past (which is why we are still using them today) but what if there were other ways? And what if we could save fish lives by not using the chemicals... what if the wholesalers got on board and supported this change? We could change the Aquarium Industry forever.. and for the better! Thats what Im excited for.

Currently I quarantine all my fish in a separate tank. If Ich appears in 4-6 weeks I treat my freshwater fish by increasing the salinity over a period of a few days, and I treat my saltwater fish by lowering their salinity in the same way.

WaterKeeper · 06/06/2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blinkgyrl2987

The other thing is that when I say all the disease free fish get shipped from the wholesaler to the LFS, what i really mean is: the fish that survive the high levels of copper at the wholesaler get shipped. Many fish die before even making it to your LFS because of the damage they sustain after chemical treatment. Emphasis mine

Hey Blink I hear you

I do wish to point out that without chemical treatments the survival rates of recently captured and transported fish would probably be far lower. From the moment a native on Tonga nets a fish its arrival in your tank is very chancy. Although transport times and conditions have improved dramatically since the early 80's they are not instantaneous.

One must realize that the importers have a large investment in this harvest and losing as little as possible makes economic sense. Over time low dose treatments with some chemicals have proven to greatly increase the number of viable fish that can reach the LFS.

I agree that it would be great if better methods for hypo could be provided from capture to sale it would be a great boon to the hobby, but until that time, old proven methods must be used.

I always wonder myself about using low does Zoloft at the time of collection.

thebkramer · 06/06/2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterKeeper

Alright Newbies, there are just so many times in a day I can cure a case of Ich or Velvet. So to save myself some serious carpal tunnel here is the lowdown.

LOVE IT!!
2yrs here.. this is my first seeing this!!

SO GLAD YOU'RE BACK WATERKEEPER!!

Aquarist007 · 06/10/2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterKeeper

Hey Blink I hear you

I do wish to point out that without chemical treatments the survival rates of recently captured and transported fish would probably be far lower. From the moment a native on Tonga nets a fish its arrival in your tank is very chancy. Although transport times and conditions have improved dramatically since the early 80's they are not instantaneous.

One must realize that the importers have a large investment in this harvest and losing as little as possible makes economic sense. Over time low dose treatments with some chemicals have proven to greatly increase the number of viable fish that can reach the LFS.

I agree that it would be great if better methods for hypo could be provided from capture to sale it would be a great boon to the hobby, but until that time, old proven methods must be used.

I always wonder myself about using low does Zoloft at the time of collection.

the operant word here is "low" dose of chemicals.

The use of viagara is probably more effective here Tom--makes the fish bigger and easier to catch

digibee · 06/13/2011, 12:09 AM

Hi, I am starting to use copper to treat my DT; as I am having a FOWLR.

One question, can I dose trace elements, and macrobacter while the tank is under copper treatment? Or I cannot dose anything until the copper treatment is done and most of it remove thru water change and carbon.

Thanks!

Aquarist007 · 06/13/2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digibee

Hi, I am starting to use copper to treat my DT; as I am having a FOWLR.

One question, can I dose trace elements, and macrobacter while the tank is under copper treatment? Or I cannot dose anything until the copper treatment is done and most of it remove thru water change and carbon.

Thanks!

WAIT you will destroy all the bacteria on the live rock and render the live rock usless.

digibee · 06/13/2011, 11:42 PM

I will rebuild those good bacteria after the treatment.

Now, I am just thinking whether I can dose reef supplement/buffer while doing copper treatment?

WaterKeeper · 06/14/2011, 01:39 PM

AHHH! Listen to the Capn!

Digibee,

Please don't use copper on the display. Copper is a potent biocide and not only will the bacteria die but also the coralline and any corals in the display. Copper absorbed by the Live Rock and Sand will make reseeding impossible, or at least difficult, for quite awhile, perhaps 3-4 months. Even then the coralline will be months in making a comeback.

Treat the disease in a Q tank and save yourself some heartache. Oh, and why are you dosing supplements? I'm sure you have no test kits available that can detect the low amounts of material that they add and any good salt mix has all those trace elements already in it. They are chemical elements and the last I checked they don't vanish into the heavens.

Maybe there has been a radical change in chemical theory while I was away.

Aquarist007 · 06/14/2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterKeeper

[B][COLOR="Red"]AHHH!

Maybe there has been a radical change in chemical theory while I was away.

No change in theory Tom but you can bet there have been 50 or so new products out there to lure the unsuspecting hobbyist into becoming a dosing dumbo

good to have you back my friend and mentor

digibee · 06/15/2011, 12:18 AM

Oh, ok thanks for the replies.

Will need to setup a proper QT.

Now my QT is just a big tub; but the weather is too hot here.

Thanks!

WaterKeeper · 06/15/2011, 02:17 PM

Digibee,

QT tanks come in all shapes and sizes. A tube is just fine (you really didn't think fish needed glass sides to see their human pets

). For a fish QT all that is needed is good circulation and some cheapo lights. Count on fairly large and frequent water changes to keep toxins in place. That solution is far better than ruining your investment to date by medicating the display.

A few capfuls of "Completly Safe Copper" has driven tons of people from this wonderful hobby that would be reefing today if they had read up on it before medicating the display.

Niglin · 01/17/2013, 10:22 AM

I've successfully treated ich in it's initial stages with the all natural cures RE: Kordons 'Ich Attack' & feeding with foods soaked in garlic and ginger, I've also used a bit of malachite green. I cannot use copper etc. or hypo-salinity as I have a reef tank. Personally, I would also be loathed to put my fish in an uncycled quarantine tank, as they'd have to endure even more stressors, and variable conditions. Incidentally, I haven't seen any real good conclusive information as to how to combat the ich in the 'Tomont' stage - within' the substrate, which is where they may very well be now... Reef and corals aside, does anybody have experience defeating this within' the substrate/at this stage, & what did you do, or use? Thanks.

Aquarist007 · 01/20/2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niglin

I've successfully treated ich in it's initial stages with the all natural cures RE: Kordons 'Ich Attack' & feeding with foods soaked in garlic and ginger, I've also used a bit of malachite green. I cannot use copper etc. or hypo-salinity as I have a reef tank. Personally, I would also be loathed to put my fish in an uncycled quarantine tank, as they'd have to endure even more stressors, and variable conditions. Incidentally, I haven't seen any real good conclusive information as to how to combat the ich in the 'Tomont' stage - within' the substrate, which is where they may very well be now... Reef and corals aside, does anybody have experience defeating this within' the substrate/at this stage, & what did you do, or use? Thanks.

Even though its a very debatable topic I have had excellent success with a UV sterilizer. Over time the UV sterilizer will remove any rich that is water borne. So if eggs or cysts get introduced to the system from new corals rock fish etc the UV gives you some protection if or when the cysts decide to rupture

Scoobysnack77 · 02/03/2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarist007

To Reef Central

It is a good idea to take the fish out and quarantine them.
IMO I would use hyposalination for 4-6 weeks.
In the mean time the display tank can remain fishless for the six weeks to ensure that the ich has been removed from the display tank at the same time.
Hyposalination is easier to tolerate for some tangs.

How big is the hypo--perhaps it should have its own qt for filtration purposes?

how can i quickly remove all of my fish in a reef tank without destroying everything? drain the tank? i have anthias, tangs and a regal angel. should i do hypo or copper?

Aquarist007 · 02/03/2015, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobysnack77

how can i quickly remove all of my fish in a reef tank without destroying everything? drain the tank? i have anthias, tangs and a regal angel. should i do hypo or copper?

What's wrong with the fish?

mortenN · 07/15/2015, 07:11 PM

Is there anyone who has tried the "tank transfer method"?
Experiences?
Works there as expected?

tauscnc · 04/16/2016, 09:28 PM

Hey guys,

I don't understand....

Dealing with ich at the time and QT the 2 fish. My question is this and I have yet to find much info (if any) on it.

Everyone talks about taking all the fish out for xx days and the DT will be ich free. Treat all fish with copper or hypo.

OK - Say I have done all this and everything is good. NOW WHAT do I do if I EVER want to add anything OTHER than fish?

I can't hypo or cooper more rock? Or coral which comes on a rock. Or coral. How about that shrimp, or starfish? Snail? Anemone? Anything OTHER than fish? What do you guys do?

From my understanding ich still lives on inverts, rocks, etc. so how is it ever possible to not reintroduce it again if you every plan to add anything again?

I don't get it and question if it is really ever possible to get rid of ich.

thanks

Brando457 · 04/16/2016, 09:47 PM

My understanding is you'd have to keep them quarantined for a minimum of approx 72 days and then the ick will die off as it is doesn't have a host.

Lots of people have separate quarantine tanks for corals + inverts + fish. The way I've always done it is add all my CUC immediately after the cycle and then QT my fish and while they're in QT this allows the display to basically as a QT for the CUC.

Also some vendors do not keep any fish in their invert holding tanks so that is a plus.

tauscnc · 04/16/2016, 09:52 PM

Ahhh ok... well that makes sense. thx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando457

My understanding is you'd have to keep them quarantined for a minimum of approx 72 days and then the ick will die off as it is doesn't have a host.

Lots of people have separate quarantine tanks for corals + inverts + fish. The way I've always done it is add all my CUC at the beginning of the cycle and then QT my fish and while they're in QT this allows the display to basically as a QT for the CUC.

Also some vendors do not keep any fish in their invert holding tanks so that is a plus.

IkeG · 04/28/2016, 01:11 PM

I hang garlic on top of my tank, this pleases the garlic god and helps fight ich. For an extra blessing I soak garlic with fish food, this is like holy food for fish. No seriously, garlic is BS, stressing a fish won't give a fish crypto, unless its already present in the system. If you don't want it in your tank , than don't let them in.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Aquacraze · 06/19/2016, 09:54 PM

So after reading several post. I have kind of confused myself.

So my question is my tank is new and only a 12gallon nano cube that I just barely introduced new corals to that are not attached to any of the rock work. Yet. Would it be easier to just remove the corals into a holding tank and treat main tank or would I have to remove all the sand and live rock as well? If I have to remove all that I'd just rather setup a QT tank for the 3 fish. I also don't have a QT tank running yet and my fish is already showing the white ich spots and barely eating. Then my blenny keeps going up to the surface of the tank like it needs air or something.. I kind of remember reading that copper would hurt the live rock and sand but not sure if that's right since I can't find the post. Haha
Thanks again!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

MOTION · 01/12/2018, 03:05 PM

Can anyone tell me the recommended best copper level for Cupramine? Not necessarily the manufacturers. I have both the Hach test kit and the API copper test kit.

Benny Blenny · 03/16/2018, 06:04 AM

Hello! I'm new to reef central, but I decided to join after reading your posts on treating ich in a brown tang.

I recently set up my 75 gallon fish only tank after having it in storage for years. The tank is established, and I have added several fish. My latest were a brown tang and an eible's Angel. I got them from separate suppliers and added them about a week or two apart. The tang was first, and he did great. The angel did fine for a while too, but they soon both started acting funny. The tang was flashing and scratching, and the Angel looked "fuzzy." I freshwater dips both, and it turns out that the Angel had flukes.

This has been an important lesson in the need for quarantine!

I separated the tang and am treating him with formalin & malachite green. He is in a hyposalinic environment now (1.010), and has been for about 4 days. My plan is to treat all fish with the formalin treatment and with prazipro.

He tang is looking much better, but there are still white spots. So I'll continue to treat until they are gone. My first question is--how long is it safe to keep him in the hyposalinic condition?

Uncle99 · 03/16/2018, 08:30 AM

While I have treated for Ick with both hypo and (in my case cupramine) at the same time, meds can stronger at lower salinity so in my case, I used half the manufactures dose.
I think you should start too see the Ick fall off in say 3-5 more days. Hypo on its own should not harm your fish, if you go beyond 14 days in hypo for Ick, something is wrong...

Treating with both at the same time is a risky venture and not reccommended.

06/14/2011, 01:39 PM	#409
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	AHHH! Listen to the Capn! Digibee, Please don't use copper on the display. Copper is a potent biocide and not only will the bacteria die but also the coralline and any corals in the display. Copper absorbed by the Live Rock and Sand will make reseeding impossible, or at least difficult, for quite awhile, perhaps 3-4 months. Even then the coralline will be months in making a comeback. Treat the disease in a Q tank and save yourself some heartache. Oh, and why are you dosing supplements? I'm sure you have no test kits available that can detect the low amounts of material that they add and any good salt mix has all those trace elements already in it. They are chemical elements and the last I checked they don't vanish into the heavens. Maybe there has been a radical change in chemical theory while I was away. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29 Last edited by WaterKeeper; 06/14/2011 at 01:44 PM.

06/15/2011, 02:17 PM	#412
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Digibee, QT tanks come in all shapes and sizes. A tube is just fine (you really didn't think fish needed glass sides to see their human pets ). For a fish QT all that is needed is good circulation and some cheapo lights. Count on fairly large and frequent water changes to keep toxins in place. That solution is far better than ruining your investment to date by medicating the display. A few capfuls of "Completly Safe Copper" has driven tons of people from this wonderful hobby that would be reefing today if they had read up on it before medicating the display. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

07/15/2015, 07:11 PM	#417
mortenN TOTM January 2006 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 606	Is there anyone who has tried the "tank transfer method"? Experiences? Works there as expected? __________________ ---Morten--- TOTM jan 06: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-01/totm/index.php

04/16/2016, 09:28 PM	#418
tauscnc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5	Hey guys, I don't understand.... Dealing with ich at the time and QT the 2 fish. My question is this and I have yet to find much info (if any) on it. Everyone talks about taking all the fish out for xx days and the DT will be ich free. Treat all fish with copper or hypo. OK - Say I have done all this and everything is good. NOW WHAT do I do if I EVER want to add anything OTHER than fish? I can't hypo or cooper more rock? Or coral which comes on a rock. Or coral. How about that shrimp, or starfish? Snail? Anemone? Anything OTHER than fish? What do you guys do? From my understanding ich still lives on inverts, rocks, etc. so how is it ever possible to not reintroduce it again if you every plan to add anything again? I don't get it and question if it is really ever possible to get rid of ich. thanks Last edited by tauscnc; 04/16/2016 at 09:51 PM.

04/16/2016, 09:47 PM	#419
Brando457 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Caldwell, NJ Posts: 1,281	My understanding is you'd have to keep them quarantined for a minimum of approx 72 days and then the ick will die off as it is doesn't have a host. Lots of people have separate quarantine tanks for corals + inverts + fish. The way I've always done it is add all my CUC immediately after the cycle and then QT my fish and while they're in QT this allows the display to basically as a QT for the CUC. Also some vendors do not keep any fish in their invert holding tanks so that is a plus. __________________ My Build Thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2259598 Current Tank Info: 180 gallon in wall w/ 75g sump & 40 breeder fuge Last edited by Brando457; 04/16/2016 at 09:54 PM.

05/02/2011, 10:14 AM	#402
Blinkgyrl2987 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: maryland Posts: 382	Currently this hobby revolves around the use of chemicals for disease treament. Thats the way its been done for 40 some plus years. Personally I think the hobby could be more successful without them. It would involve independent filtration. LFS's and all the chains such as petsmart and Petco would have their tanks separated and not have all the water, fish and disease being ran together. Wholesalers would also have to cooperate and not use the copper and formaldehyde that they do. I can't name how many times I've gone and purchased fish and ended up with Ich. Its really sad and takes the fun out of the hobby, but all the chemicals do is kill more fish (if the fish are strong enough to survive treatment they still sustain damage). Better chemical free ways of treating fish are on the cutting edge right now, hopefully we can get everyone on board and not have to use the chemicals anymore. What an improvement for this hobby that would be =) The wholesalers use high levels of copper and formaldehyde for LONG periods of time as preventative measures (this is how they ensure that their fish are shipped parasite free). But what good does it do if all these fish go to infected LFS systems all over the states?Most of these fish are now more susceptible to disease at the pet stores because they've been weakened from chemical treatment. My biggest hangup with the chemical use are the negative side effects. Both copper and formaldehye effect the fish's gills, liver and kidneys, essentially weakening the fish. The other thing is that when I say all the disease free fish get shipped from the wholesaler to the LFS, what i really mean is: the fish that survive the high levels of copper at the wholesaler get shipped. Many fish die before even making it to your LFS because of the damage they sustain after chemical treatment. I know chemicals have been one of the predominent treatment methods in the past (which is why we are still using them today) but what if there were other ways? And what if we could save fish lives by not using the chemicals... what if the wholesalers got on board and supported this change? We could change the Aquarium Industry forever.. and for the better! Thats what Im excited for. Currently I quarantine all my fish in a separate tank. If Ich appears in 4-6 weeks I treat my freshwater fish by increasing the salinity over a period of a few days, and I treat my saltwater fish by lowering their salinity in the same way.

06/13/2011, 12:09 AM	#406
digibee Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	Hi, I am starting to use copper to treat my DT; as I am having a FOWLR. One question, can I dose trace elements, and macrobacter while the tank is under copper treatment? Or I cannot dose anything until the copper treatment is done and most of it remove thru water change and carbon. Thanks!

06/13/2011, 11:42 PM	#408
digibee Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	I will rebuild those good bacteria after the treatment. Now, I am just thinking whether I can dose reef supplement/buffer while doing copper treatment?

06/15/2011, 12:18 AM	#411
digibee Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	Oh, ok thanks for the replies. Will need to setup a proper QT. Now my QT is just a big tub; but the weather is too hot here. Thanks!

01/17/2013, 10:22 AM	#413
Niglin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13	I've successfully treated ich in it's initial stages with the all natural cures RE: Kordons 'Ich Attack' & feeding with foods soaked in garlic and ginger, I've also used a bit of malachite green. I cannot use copper etc. or hypo-salinity as I have a reef tank. Personally, I would also be loathed to put my fish in an uncycled quarantine tank, as they'd have to endure even more stressors, and variable conditions. Incidentally, I haven't seen any real good conclusive information as to how to combat the ich in the 'Tomont' stage - within' the substrate, which is where they may very well be now... Reef and corals aside, does anybody have experience defeating this within' the substrate/at this stage, & what did you do, or use? Thanks.

04/28/2016, 01:11 PM	#421
IkeG Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 22	I hang garlic on top of my tank, this pleases the garlic god and helps fight ich. For an extra blessing I soak garlic with fish food, this is like holy food for fish. No seriously, garlic is BS, stressing a fish won't give a fish crypto, unless its already present in the system. If you don't want it in your tank , than don't let them in. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

06/19/2016, 09:54 PM	#422
Aquacraze Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 94	So after reading several post. I have kind of confused myself. So my question is my tank is new and only a 12gallon nano cube that I just barely introduced new corals to that are not attached to any of the rock work. Yet. Would it be easier to just remove the corals into a holding tank and treat main tank or would I have to remove all the sand and live rock as well? If I have to remove all that I'd just rather setup a QT tank for the 3 fish. I also don't have a QT tank running yet and my fish is already showing the white ich spots and barely eating. Then my blenny keeps going up to the surface of the tank like it needs air or something.. I kind of remember reading that copper would hurt the live rock and sand but not sure if that's right since I can't find the post. Haha Thanks again! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

01/12/2018, 03:05 PM	#423
MOTION Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1	Correct copper level Can anyone tell me the recommended best copper level for Cupramine? Not necessarily the manufacturers. I have both the Hach test kit and the API copper test kit.

03/16/2018, 06:04 AM	#424
Benny Blenny Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 5	Treating my tang (and others) Hello! I'm new to reef central, but I decided to join after reading your posts on treating ich in a brown tang. I recently set up my 75 gallon fish only tank after having it in storage for years. The tank is established, and I have added several fish. My latest were a brown tang and an eible's Angel. I got them from separate suppliers and added them about a week or two apart. The tang was first, and he did great. The angel did fine for a while too, but they soon both started acting funny. The tang was flashing and scratching, and the Angel looked "fuzzy." I freshwater dips both, and it turns out that the Angel had flukes. This has been an important lesson in the need for quarantine! I separated the tang and am treating him with formalin & malachite green. He is in a hyposalinic environment now (1.010), and has been for about 4 days. My plan is to treat all fish with the formalin treatment and with prazipro. He tang is looking much better, but there are still white spots. So I'll continue to treat until they are gone. My first question is--how long is it safe to keep him in the hyposalinic condition?

03/16/2018, 08:30 AM	#425
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	While I have treated for Ick with both hypo and (in my case cupramine) at the same time, meds can stronger at lower salinity so in my case, I used half the manufactures dose. I think you should start too see the Ick fall off in say 3-5 more days. Hypo on its own should not harm your fish, if you go beyond 14 days in hypo for Ick, something is wrong... Treating with both at the same time is a risky venture and not reccommended.