Reef crystals??

[Billybeau1]

That's closer to the numbers I would expect from RC.

You are in the ballpark.

[Michael]

apart from billys tests on salts heres another reefers, it from 1 of our guys over here, its suggests billys findings are on the same sort of results, theres only a few points between then, im not saying these test results are accurate but its another opinion on parameters

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/s...d.php?t=246450

[mujtba]

Wow, QFRISCO, you are really getting those numbers on your salt???!!?? Okay so I use a HYDROMETER to measure my salt SG when i make it. Should I use a refractometer? At this point I will just think either I got the worst batch of salt made, or I am completly measuring the test wrong.

if I should get a refractometer, please tell me where i can get one, and which one...

I see Reef HD Salinity Refractometer on the auction site, or Salinity Refractometer with ATC by Sybon. In the Picture for the ATC one, I see a small chemical bottle. So my question is with a Refractometer, do I need to purchase chemicals periodically as i test my SG? For example, with a HYDROMETER, you buy it once and it is good to go and easy to measure salinity and no need to purchase additional items ever. Is a refractometer the same? Buy once and measure anytime? Or do I need to purchase other stuff occasionally... because i change my water weekly.

Billy, I think if after getting the refractometer I still do not get correct results, If you want, i can ship you a 20oz of fresh RC water so you can test.. whaddya say??

[qfrisco]

mujtba - my guess right now is that your hydrometer is way off, and you're mixing saltwater with a much lower salinity than you think, causing your measurements to be much lower. For example, with the two batches that I did, raising the SG by a mere 0.002 caused a 50 ppm rise in Ca, and a 75 ppm rise in Mg.

So if your hydrometer is way off, your numbers could also be way off.

As for which hydrometer to get, I think pretty much any being sold by Marine Depot, or Drs. Foster & Smith will be good. Buy one with ATC (Automatic Temp Calibration) as they automatically adjust based on the temperature of your water. You should be able to get a good one for about $40.

You really just need to calibrate your hydrometer once every few months. At the very least, you can use distilled water, but ideally you should use the Pinpoint solutions to calibrate. But that's it. There's no need to constantly recalibrate the hydrometer. The chemical bottle in the picture of the ATC one is probably some calibration fluid.

[mujtba]

Wait, so I do not need a refractometer? I need a better hydrometer? I am guessing I could be off too with the SG.. Could you please give me a few names of what to buy? Is a refractometer the same as hydrometer? Do i need to use a hydrometer WITH a refractometer? Im confused now....

[Michael]

forget the hydrometer, get a refractometer, and make sure your sg is at 1.026 when re-testing, you will find the levels are then at the levels billybeau mentioned, unless you have a 1 off bad batch

[qfrisco]

Originally posted by mujtba
Wait, so I do not need a refractometer? I need a better hydrometer? I am guessing I could be off too with the SG.. Could you please give me a few names of what to buy? Is a refractometer the same as hydrometer? Do i need to use a hydrometer WITH a refractometer? Im confused now....

I'm sorry - I meant to say "refractometer" when I said "hydrometer" in a few parts of my message. Must have been too early. :-)

Really, the only brand I can vouch for is Milwaukee, but they are more pricey, usually in the $70 range. I got mine used for $40 from a local reefer. But like I said, many people have success with the refractometers available at Marine Depot or Drs. Foster and Smith.

A refractometer is the same as a hydrometer in that they are both used to measure specific gravity in a solution, but a refractometer is much, much more accurate than a hydrometer.

My message above should have read (I couldn't edit my previous post as it's been more than 60 minutes since I posted it):

"mujtba - my guess right now is that your hydrometer is way off, and you're mixing saltwater with a much lower salinity than you think, causing your measurements to be much lower. For example, with the two batches that I did, raising the SG by a mere 0.002 caused a 50 ppm rise in Ca, and a 75 ppm rise in Mg.

So if your hydrometer is way off, your numbers could also be way off.

As for which refractometer to get, I think pretty much any being sold by Marine Depot, or Drs. Foster & Smith will be good. Buy one with ATC (Automatic Temp Calibration) as they automatically adjust based on the temperature of your water. You should be able to get a good one for about $40.

You really just need to calibrate your refractometer once every few months. At the very least, you can use distilled water, but ideally you should use the Pinpoint solutions to calibrate. But that's it. There's no need to constantly recalibrate the hydrometer. The chemical bottle in the picture of the ATC one is probably some calibration fluid."

[mujtba]

Okay so I see this one for $40: Salinity Refractometer with ATC by Sybon

Any good?

[Billybeau1]

It should be fine. Most refracts are pretty straight forward. Some of the more expensive ones just have more bells and whistles.

Just remember to get the Pinpoint 53 mS calibration fluid as distilled or ro/di water likely wont work.

[mujtba]

Okay I ordered the Marine Depot Salinity Refractometer for $39. Has good reviews. But I do not see a pinpoint 53 MS Calibration fluid.. what do i do? where do i get that? is it like WD-40?

"The Refractometer is a must have for all hobbyists. The proper salinity is crucial for the survival and health of your fish and corals.

This high quality refractometer is extremely accurate and easy to use and calibrate. Calibration is simply done with a few drops of distilled water. This model also features ATC (automatic temperature compensation).

Adjustable eyepiece
Carrying case
Pipette
Calibration screw driver
Range for Testing: 0-28%
Division: 0.20%
"

[qfrisco]

Originally posted by mujtba
Okay I ordered the Marine Depot Salinity Refractometer for $39. Has good reviews. But I do not see a pinpoint 53 MS Calibration fluid.. what do i do? where do i get that? is it like WD-40?

"The Refractometer is a must have for all hobbyists. The proper salinity is crucial for the survival and health of your fish and corals.

This high quality refractometer is extremely accurate and easy to use and calibrate. Calibration is simply done with a few drops of distilled water. This model also features ATC (automatic temperature compensation).

Adjustable eyepiece
Carrying case
Pipette
Calibration screw driver
Range for Testing: 0-28%
Division: 0.20%
"

I guess Marine Depot doesn't carry it, but Drs. Foster and Smith appears to. Here's what you need: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=18717

Put a few drops of the calibration fluid onto your refractometer and adjust the calibration screw so that the meter reads 35ppt or 1.026 SG. Then you're done. I'd just do this every few months or so, to make sure your refractometer is still calibrated. But my refractometer hasn't budged in the past 11 months - it's still dead-on.

Many refractometer instructions (my Milwaukee does) call for calibrating with distilled water. In this case, you put a few drops of distilled water onto your refractometer and adjust the calibration screw so the meter reads an SG of 1.0. But it's preferable to use the Pinpoint solution as it is calibrating your meter for the SG range that you are more interested in, in the 1.025 range, as opposed to 1.0 (or 0 ppt).

[mujtba]

can we use RO-DI water instead of distilled, if I take that route?

If it is set to 1.0, I assume you dip the refractometer in the fresh salt water, or fish tank water, and it displayes the SG of the water?

sorry if some questions sound silly...

[qfrisco]

Originally posted by mujtba
can we use RO-DI water instead of distilled, if I take that route?

If it is set to 1.0, I assume you dip the refractometer in the fresh salt water, or fish tank water, and it displayes the SG of the water?

sorry if some questions sound silly...

RO/DI is technically not the same as distilled water, but I guess in a pinch, you could substitute the two. Distilled is pretty easy to get at most grocery stores, and is cheap. When I first got my refractometer, I used distilled water to calibrate, then tested my RO/DI water. Both gave the same reading. But as I said before, if you calibrate at 1.0 SG, your readings in the 1.025 range might be slightly off. That's why it's desirable to use the Pinpoint solution.

Here's how a refractometer works - at one end of the meter, there is a pane of glass, which is actually one side of a prism. The other end of the meter is where you look to see what the reading is. As you are looking into one end of the meter, you "aim" the other end at a bright light source (could be your aquarium lights, or in my case, my kitchen light.)

You drip a few drops of the liquid you're testing onto the pane of glass (the prism). The liquid, even though it's only a few drops worth, refracts the light, and the amount of refraction changes depending on the liquid's SG. As you look into the meter's sight, you will see a series of horizontal lines, each corresponding to a given SG or PPT, and the refracted light is projected by the prism into the sighting screen. Then, it's as simple as reading which line the refracted light aligns with.

It's a pretty low-tech device, but the genius is in it's simplicity.

[mujtba]

ok so what does calibration mean? if i drop few drops of distilled water on the glass pane, what does it do? after i drop the distilled, i then drop salt water drops on it?

and I can do this each time I do my weekly water change?

[Michael]

have a look at randys words on refractometers it may help, fwiw gfrisco is doing a good job, well done mate

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

[spleify]

Ok, so long story short. I just opened up a new bucket of reef crystals that I have had for a couple months now. Last time I ordered I ordered 2, I will usually order once I open my last bucket, so it has been a while since I got these. The last bucket tested out pretty consistent at 410-425 CA. I open up the new bucket and make a 25 gallon batch, tested it today(after 3 days mixing in the bucket) and my CA tested at 300, Salifert. I thought for sure I did something wrong, so I tested again, still 300.
I brought a sample to my LFS, and HE tested it with Salifert 340, I tested it with his kit, again 340. ARGGG, man I thought I was over the bad batches of salt, this is so frustrating. I guess its good at least I test my new water, and bolster it any way, I will just have to add more Calcium.

The alk tested 12
MAG 1200
79 degrees
35 PPT

Spleify

[mujtba]

Ok so my Marinedepot refractometer arrived today. Here are my readings on the reef crystals:

SG: 1.026 (Marinedepot refractometer)
Ca: 375 ppm (Salifert)
Mg: 1050 ppm (Salifert)

Now i tested the SG several times, and it was right at 1.026. The strange thing is that my hydrometer reads it at 1.028. So the refractometer I assume is the correct reading....

however it is safe to say that the salt is lower than i expected.. sux.. i can understand one of the two being low, but both low sucks..

[qfrisco]

And just to add, I broke open my second bag of Reef Crystals, and it tested similarly to my first bag. At least in my testing, Reef Crystals is definitely in the low end of the acceptable ranges for Ca and Mg, but they're good enough for me.

[mujtba]

Ok thanks Q... ill use the salt up this time, but i wont get it again...

[qfrisco]

Originally posted by mujtba
Ok thanks Q... ill use the salt up this time, but i wont get it again...

Which salt did you use prior to Reef Crystals? Now that you've got a refractometer, I'd be curious to see how that mix compares to Reef Crystals as far as Ca and Mg go.

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by mujtba
FYI, I rounded up to 800 and 300.... I don't think I am doing the tests wrong.. if it was wrong even, I can be off 50-100ppm, but not by so much... TERRIBLE SALT! I have the bucket with the screw on lids.

I don't know if someone mentioned this or not ( I read through the thread briefly) but you need to mix the dry salt up inside the bucket. The minerals can settle out -- meaning much of your calcium chloride might be at the bottom, same with the mag.


Just roll the bucket around, or better yet, take an empty, dry bucket and dump it back and forth to mix it well.

[mujtba]

Ok I will roll the bucket around.. thanks for the tip...

I use Coral Sea Pro before this.... i need to measure that now. i think i have some left, so i will test it..

my refractometer is awesome.. i love using it.. makes me feel like a chemist.. lol

so going forward, i dont need to worry about the hydrometers reading being much higher than the refractometer?

should i make an SG of 1.026 or lower??

[redfishsc]

I ignore the SG side of my refractometer and measure the salinity at 35ppm, which is about 1.026. The 35ppm is so much easier to read, at least on my refractometer.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't know if someone mentioned this or not ( I read through the thread briefly) but you need to mix the dry salt up inside the bucket. The minerals can settle out -- meaning much of your calcium chloride might be at the bottom, same with the mag.


Just roll the bucket around, or better yet, take an empty, dry bucket and dump it back and forth to mix it well.

FWIW, since the particles in the mix represent different sizes and densities, I think you are at least as likely to actually cause inhomogeneity through particle sorting than you are to homogenize it that way. I would not recommend that procedure.

I would recommend mixing up as large of a portion of a bag or bucket at once as you can accommodate to help smooth out such inhomogeneity issues.

[fishkillers]

true!