Euro-Reef Eheim NW Thread

[Reefologist]

This is by far one of my favorite threads here on RC. I lurk in the shadows alot. Maybe RC should not only consider the number of post, but also the number of hours logged in to RC. Just for us lurkers. Nice thread jim...thanks and happy reefkeping. Jimdog is one of the few of my favorites here @ home on RC.....

[Reefologist]

OH Yeah cerreta you totally rock. Very detail oriented and very informitave = Efficient reading....kind of like cliffs notes and I love those, thanks for your efforts and reports....happy reefkeeping..

[scarletknight06]

yes thanks to cerreta for opening our eyes to many important things. I did not mean to be nit picky and offend you. Just felt I should clarify a few things that I felt appropriate. Hope I didnt offend you, and my apologies if I did.

[sjm817]

Agree. This is a great thread. Very informative. Thanks to all that have contributed especially jimdogg187 and cerreta. Great work.

[angelopasto]

Great thread guys - I will use many tips I read.

[UCanDoIt]

Originally posted by sjm817
Agree. This is a great thread. Very informative. Thanks to all that have contributed especially jimdogg187 and cerreta. Great work.

[frank2926]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but sucking up to jim will get you know where lol ...

[Reefologist]

now I'll be debating on whether to upgrade my CS12-1 with the ehiems or maybe it is time for a new toy altogether. Honestly my skimmer couldn't perform much better even with my good o'l dolphin dp-800's. I have owned many euro-reef skimmers; 6'>8">12" and every one has performed excellent. And none ever needed a break in period. My 12" pulls mad amounts of nasty thick skimmate and is very consistant. And thank Buddha it is built like a tank as I am very careful and never drop my cup when cleaning, but as fate would have it I have dropped it( once from at least 3' into my tub) the last three of four times I've cleaned it. Thank goodness it didn't even phase it.....happy reefkeeping...

[Rip Current]

I almost feel sorry for the guys that paid $550.00 for a deltec pump!! I knew deltec was F.O.S. about modding there pumps!

[Lunchbucket]

well i hope that ER can get the 1250's up and running. as i have a RC80+ and am supposed to try out hte new impeller and/or pump when they get them going. needless to say i'm just a TINY bit jealous about you guys w/your eheim pumps alread

i need to order a new pump face for my pump before i run it again. i cracked it where the pvc pushes into the pump face

Lunchbucket

[tacocat]

Originally posted by Rip Current
I almost feel sorry for the guys that paid $550.00 for a deltec pump!! I knew deltec was F.O.S. about modding there pumps!

No worse than those that bought spider reflectors and Berlin Turbo skimmers.

The Aquabees look similar to Eheims (almost dead ringers). They are made by a different company. I can't seem to find their website now. They are used by the German companies because they are much more efficient at this application than the smaller Eheims and their input and output fittings are extremely large relative to the pumps size.

FWIW, you can purchase DAS pumps here:
http://www.petorama.net/DAS.html
These are rebadged Aquabee needlewheel pumps. I purchased one from them.

[scarletknight06]

I have to say the DAS is probably the best bang for the buck out there. The DAS EX-1 I had was awesome.

Its a deltec apf600 for $260!!!

[cerreta]

cerreta - Very cool air silencer! So, you stole the idea from Octopus skimmers.

Yep, saw it, studied it for two minutes, saw it in action, then built it. It is nice and small too. No reason to have a big hulky silencer. I am looking for a way to mount it to the skimmer cup now so it does not have to dangle.

yes thanks to cerreta for opening our eyes to many important things. I did not mean to be nit picky and offend you. Just felt I should clarify a few things that I felt appropriate. Hope I didnt offend you, and my apologies if I did.

Actually your critisicm was insightful because it helps me think and explore other ideas. Infact this new test was partly due to the quest to explore more about the differences between the two pumps. So, no offense taken, you helped me and the thread along its course.
Cheers.

Yeah, cerreta really hooked it up on this thread.

Oh yeah, well get a load of this test!!! I was shocked at the results and what i discovered about the reduced fitting that I used. I thought it would decrease teh flow throughputs for sure, but nope!

Enjoy

In the previous series of testing it was mentioned that it would be valuable to know if there is a significant difference in flow output between the two pumps. It has already been proven that there is no significant difference between the Eheim 1260 and Eheim 1262 in terms of air draw (15 lpm vs. 15 lpm), current draw (0.69 amps vs. 0.71amps) and power consumption (40 watts vs. 40 watts) respectively.

I lacked any brilliant ideas for how to test the pumps while in use on the skimmer body. Therefore I elected to setup a pumping station and manually calculate the time it takes to fill a 20 liter jug with water. Although these numbers can not be used to indicate how much water is pushed through a skimmer body it is valuable to see if there is any raw difference between the two pumps. I also wanted to evaluate the difference between my modified version of the plumbing and the ER medication.

Methods:
A large tub was filled with 30 liters of water. The pump was placed in the tub connected with 1� PVC using two elbows and three segments of pipe: 8.5� 14.5� and a 3� pipe that direct water into the 20 liter water jug. See photo for design. The intake was turned to the side so that the pump would not break suction during the process of filling the 20 liter jug. A timer was used. The pump was plugged in and the timer was started. When the water level in the jug reached the 20 liter mark the timer was stopped and the pump was unplugged. This outlet plumbing was used for all eight tests performed.



There were two intake plumbing configurations used:
ER mod uses the Eheim 1262 volute, ER air Intake glued to the outside of the volute, ER elbow and KBI union.



Cerreta’s mod uses an H&S volute, a ¾� MPT air intake pipe shoved into the inside of the volute, a 1� to ¾� reducer, 1� elbow, and KBI union.



A look at the pipe not shoved into the volute



By looking through the ER air intake you can see a restriction. My mod just uses a ¾� pipe with smaller internal diameter and no restriction. A ¼� nipple elbow was glued into the pipe to make an air intake. I was very curious on how my mod would reduce the overall water output compared to the larger diameter ER mod.

Cerreta mod with ¾� pipe shoved into H&S volute


Cerreta mod with H&S air intake mounted on H&S volute. Notice that there is very little difference in the internal size restriction between this and the threaded pipe.



Each pump was fitted with each of the two plumbing mods and two tests were run. The first test was run with the air valve wide open. The second was performed with the air intake off. The ER new style pinwheel was used in all tests. The water used for testing is freshwater, this accounts for the low air draw values recorded.

[cerreta]

Tests:
1. Eheim 1262 with ER mod: air draw = 3 lpm, 20L/89s or 214gph.
Observations: The air meter had rampant fluctuations. The strange thing to this test was that the pump slurped and pumped water very slowly. It appeared to be cavitating. The whole pump rocked in the tub as the pump was slurping.
2. Eheim 1262 with ER mod: air intake off, 20L/25s or 760gph.

3. Eheim 1262 with Cerreta mod: air draw = 5 lpm, 20L/63s or 302gph.
Observations: The air draw was very steady at 5 lpm, no fluctuations like the ER mod produced. No cavitation or slurping noted with the Cerreta mod plumbing.
4. Eheim 1262 with Cerreta mod: air draw off, 20L/24s or 792gph.

5. Eheim 1260 with ER mod: air draw = 3 lpm, 20/85s or 224gph.
Observations: The same cavitation and slurping occurred. The air draw was rampant.
6. Eheim 1260 with ER mod: air draw off. 20L/25s or 760gph.
Observations: No slurping or cavitation. Air draw was consistent.

7. Eheim 1260 with Cerreta mod: air draw 5lpm, 20L/63s or 302gph.
Observations: No slurping or cavitation. Air draw was consistent.
8. Eheim 1260 with Cerreta mod: air draw off. 20L/26s or 731gph.


Conclusion:
I was very surprised by the testing. There was no significant difference between using the Eheim 1260 or 1262 pump when comparing flow output with the air flow off regardless of which mod was used. Compare values of test 2, 4, 6, 8. Likewise, no significant difference was observed in flow output when the air valve was wide open between the two pumps when the same plumbing mod was used. Compare values of test 1 vs. 5 and 3 vs. 7.

Strangely the slurping and cavitation of the ER mod did create a statistically significant difference in flow output when comparing the same pump fitted with different plumbing mods. Compare values 1 vs. 3 and 5 vs. 7. I did repeat this test several times and they all slurped. The cavitation did create a wide variety of times which were averaged to get the reported values. The cavitation did affect the speed of continuous water flow. I have no rational explanation for why the cavitation occurred in theses tests. However it should be noted that cavitation does not occur when the pump is used with salt water and attached to a skimmer body.

So, it can be concluded that there is no significant difference between the Eheim 1260 and Eheim 1262 pumps with regards to air draw, current draw, power consumption, or water throughput. These pumps are identical in my observations and tests. The only differences I know of is the volute on the 1262 is larger than the 1260 and this explains the 40% volume increase in flow when comparing the two pumps. However, when used as a skimmer pump they perform the same. I do believe that the 1262 does have more windings wrapped around the motor. This would explain the slight increase in current draw however, in these tests with low head pressures. I could not detect any differences. It would be interesting to see if the 1262 does outperform the 1260 in larger and taller skimmer bodies that exert more head pressure on the pump.





These tests were fun and easy. I was surprised to see that my plumbing mod did not decrease the flow output when compared to the larger diameter of the ER mod. I also thought it would be a great challenge to find a conversion adapter from metric to US piping. However, the H&S volute is not a threaded device and the material is much thicker and stronger than the original Eheim volute. Therefore, shoving a ¾� MPT pipe into the volute hole using pipe thread compound to form a seal worked just fine. In fact I have had this pump in use now on the ER 180 for several hours without leak or fail.

Another caveat worth mentioning is that the output of the Eheim 1260 with Cerreta mod has a ¾� pipe threaded into the output threads. The ER mod had a metric to US adapter (or ER just did some CNC milling of 1� pipe) to seal the union on the output to the outside of the Eheim pump outlet.

The reason I mention this is because it means there could be a very simple way to save some money and retro fit an Eheim 1262 to your existing ER skimmer. Recall that the results showed no significant difference between my mod and the ER mod in terms of flow throughput. Therefore, even though I used ¾� threaded pipe on both intake and output, that means it will work fine and there is no reason to try and find metric to US adapters to connect plumbing to the external parts of the volute and outputs. Also, the only reason I had to buy the H&S volute is because the Eheim 1260 does not come with the proper internal orifice that permits the skimmer to function properly. But, the 1262 does. So that makes for a very simple DIY Eheim pump project.

Eheim Pump DIY project:
1. Eheim 1262 pump $140
2. Two ¾� to 1� slip x slip bushing $2
3. One ¾� x 5� MPT to MPT Sch 40 pipe $2
4. Two one inch KBI unions $10
5. One 1� elbow slip x slip $0.50
6. One ¼� nipple elbow for air line tubing
7. ER new style pinwheel $30 (no reason to buy whole impeller, just cut the vanes off the stock impeller and push the ER PW into place. Or you can remove your old PW from the GenX impeller and use it, or you can make a mesh wheel.

Total cost should be around $200 with glues and shipping and miscellaneous stuff.

The build should be easy enough, but you need to cut item number three so you have one 3� piece and one 2� piece. Use the two inch piece on the output and glue bushing and union. You need to drill a hole into the 3� pipe to accommodate the air line elbow. One side of the elbow needs trimmed. Then press into hole and use acrylic glue to seal in place. Silicone may work here. Next, glue bushing to slip end of pipe. Glue elbow to bushing. Glue a short section of 1� PVC pipe to elbow. Glue union to 1� pipe. You may have to adjust some of these lengths to make sure the union spacing and heights are correct to fit to the skimmer body. Not too hard if you have the tools.


Some final pictures:

Skimmer running with Eheim 1260 pump and Cerreta mod with ER new style pinwheel. Notice how the foam extends down further in the body here? I used a 1� 45 degree fitting and angled the foam trajectory downward.


Without the 45 degree fitting.


Airflow test without the silencer in place. Draws 13lpm (just cleaned cup, will be higher tomorrow). Eheim 1260 pump and Cerreta mod with ER new style pinwheel.


Airflow test with silencer draws 12lpm.

[Fliger]

Scott, good work man. Did you test the LPH with and without the 45? Only reason I ask is my H&S Eheim which draws about 1,000LPH is dropped when I tried a 45. Due to the ID of the 45. I guess I could bore it out if I want to try it again.

[cerreta]

That may explain my drop from 15lpm to 13lpm. I just thought it was because I cleaned the skimmer cup.

The Cards totally **** me off. . . I was scared the whole game and rightly so. When do the Suns play, at least they can win.


Thanks David.
Cheers

[cerreta]

ooops, I guess pi_ssed is a bad word

[Fliger]

IIRC, mine dropped more but I'm not quite sure. I'll probably bore one out with a dremel but in all honesty I sometimes feel like you get more skimmate when you have a tighter bubble pack.

(I felt bad for my Card fan friends but I hate the Bidwells. You can't escape Karma. And I can't wait to see Amare back!!!!!!)

[Reefologist]

Time for more pictures jimdoggggggg......please.....

[Lunchbucket]

bought time my bears are good. it's been since the 80's

ok back to the topic at hand MORE PICS..DAILY PICS



Lunchbucket

[Jim_S]

In all fairness, cerreta has posted more pics in this thread than I've posted on RC in my time as a member

But I can post some updates when I get home from the office tonight.

Jim

[Lunchbucket]

yeah cerreta has done a hell of a job! more thourough then i thought anyone would be THANKS.

jim that sounds great

Lunchbucket

[Jim_S]

Scott,

Has the change in the water level helped out at all with the large bubbles you were getting?

Jim

[cerreta]

yes, problem solved. I have an inch of skimmate in the cup. The bubbles are fine in size.

Thanks!

[Jim_S]

Awsome.

I'm glad to hear it.

Lunch and Reefologist,

Sorry guys. My buddy grabbed my camera while I was at work. He said he'll bring it by later but I might be alseep.

I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

Jim