Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Good to know, Sam.

No, I don't really NEED livebearers, but that was the whole point of getting mollies. So if I were to substitute them with something else, I'd LIKE them to be livebearers, to provide a live food source for my hunting carnivores. I originally got them for the lookdowns, who were only eating live feeders, and that was getting expensive. Now that the lookdowns are gone, that need is reduced. But the appeal of a (sort of) self-generating food source added to the food web in my little ecosystem is still valid, hence the livebearer requirement.

[sam.basye]

Here's a different perspective on live bearers.

You want them to provide a food source to the rest of the fish. What is the real difference between having live bearers vs egg layers? One pops out live fish and the other eggs..


One way or the other you still get little baby fish swimming around as a food source. You don't have to do anything to the eggs for them to hatch.
At hatch, you still have the same fry as you would with the mollies, if not more if the clutch of eggs is larger than what a Mollie can hold while pregnant.

Given a week or two, you will get the same end result as with a live bearer will you not?

Moving away from mollies could open the door to more options, yet still yield the same results.

You need sheepshead minnows

[Michael Hoaster]

Great pic of your minnow, Sam!

Your logic makes sense. However, without a proper food source and very special conditions, you never get fry in decent numbers to be effective. My royal grammas have been spawning for over a year now. I've never seen a fry. Not even one. The only salt water fish that I've heard of, that produces good numbers of fry without specialized conditions, is the banghai cardinal fish, which aren't caribbean, and are rather boring, in my opinion.

I'm not married to mollies, but they are cheap, easy, they eat algae, are prolific spawners and biotope-correct. Back when I still had Norbert (the larger lookdown) in QT, I had mollies in there too. They produced babies with no help from me. He hunted them with gusto and that was cool! Also, it looks cool to have various sizes of fry swimming around, very similar to what you'd see in just about any body of water.

If I could find a fish that does as well as mollies, but looks more "salty", I'd be all over it.

[Chasmodes]

Michael, if you're interested in getting some native fish like the sheepshead minnow, you can special order them from Jonah's Aquarium. You can find the link on the NANFA forum. Click on their fish list, then the special order section.

I read that the rainwater killifish is one of the most common fish along with the goldspotted killifish. I don't know of anyone that sells the goldspotted. But, the goldspotted are very similar to sheepshead minnows, which Jonah's has, along with the rainwater.

[Michael Hoaster]

Mr Condylactis has been exploring again. Not great pics, but I wanted to post some before he moves again! Over the last two years, I've come to realize, quite by accident, that this tank is ideal for this wandering anemone. Not being in a reef tank means he has no-one to harm or harm him. It has been really fascinating, watching him relocate from time to time. I never dreamed he would climb the fake mangrove root, but there he is! I wouldn't have thought he gets enough light there, but he looks pretty happy, writhing in the strong current.


With tree gracilaria in the foreground.



From on high, so to speak… Also, note the huge caulerpa growth on the back wall. You may be able to see the 2 liter soda bottle trap at the bottom, with fluorescent fishing line, trying to blend in with the seagrasses.


One more from the end.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the info, Chasmodes!

[Michael Hoaster]

One other idea I had on quarantining the very-difficult-to-catch royal grammas: I could temporarily move all invertebrates into the QT, and treat the display with hyposalinity. The big concern would be the seagrasses' and macros' reaction to it. I could always move a small number of them, with the invertebrates, for a re-seeding population. It's a thought. In the meantime, I'll continue with the trap and see if I still have a tiny hook…

[Chasmodes]

Nice anemone pics. Pretty cool how he's cruising around now.

Any luck catching the grammas? Will the grammas go into a seashell, or perhaps make a trap that looks like rock, or a brown beer bottle? Maybe chase them into one? I was thinking that maybe they'd feel more secure going into a structure rather than a clear bottle...

[Michael Hoaster]

[Michael Hoaster]

I did a big prune/export this weekend, along with a water change. I pulled a lot of reds, which contained a lot of aiptasias. The tree grasilaria looks cool, but I'm not getting growth yet. I'm trying to get it going on the fake root, at the edge of the light. Maybe after this pruning, it will have better access to nutrients. The seagrasses are doing well, with some blades reaching the surface. I added some new root tabs a week or two ago. They contain more phosphate than previous tabs. Seagrasses prefer root uptake of phosphorus.

I also installed a new heater and canister filter, once again setting it up to inject CO2. So nice not to have micro bubbles.

The royal grammas are much more visible again. There's only one molly left in the display, except for a few fry. Everything looks pretty good, until you notice the fish scratching.

[Chasmodes]

How are the fish doing today?

I was thinking about how to make the perfect fish trap, or an attempt to. What about a few pieces of 5" cuts of PVC pipe (maybe black pipe), that feed into a clear contrainer, like a soda bottle, suspended at the level in the tank where the fish usually hang out, that will get them used to it being there and maybe use the pipes for cover. Then, maybe they'll go into the container that way, or maybe chased into it.

I might build one for catching some wild fish just to see if it works. If it works in the wild, then it should work in a tank. I'll need to collect fish for my tanks soon anyway.

[Michael Hoaster]

They're good, thanks Chasmodes. So I still have six royal grammas, all still in the display. (plus one male molly and a few fry) I've just about given up on the trap. I like your idea of a darker trap. I found my tiny hook and line, but I haven't found the gumption to go fishing yet. One of the mollies in QT had a large batch of babies.

The grammas are still scratching, but it hasn't gotten too bad. I REALLY need to get them in QT! I am so sorry to lose the barnacle blennies. I wouldn't have thought they would be so susceptible to ICH. Maybe it was something else.

With the plan to run the tank fallow, this is a good time to focus on the plants a bit more. Two plus years of trying, and I still haven't figured out the secret sauce for the manatee grass yet. It's doing well, but I want more prolific growth. I think getting the turtle grass out will help immensely. Like it does in nature, it is succeeding the manatee grass, trying to crowd it out.

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

With the plan to run the tank fallow, this is a good time to focus on the plants a bit more. Two plus years of trying, and I still haven't figured out the secret sauce for the manatee grass yet. It's doing well, but I want more prolific growth. I think getting the turtle grass out will help immensely. Like it does in nature, it is succeeding the manatee grass, trying to crowd it out.

Despite your ich setbacks, you've come a long way. I think your plan moving forward makes sense.

I think fishing for the grammas would be OK, but my only fear would be that any wound from that might get infected. That said, there are many US native freshwater aquariums where the fish were caught with hook and line and did just fine. I used to have a tank with some fish that I caught and they lived for years without any problems. Still, it does give me pause especially since they've been pets since you've had them and you become attached, you paid good money for your fish, and you can't get much of a meal out of grammas...

[Michael Hoaster]

I've used hooks before with no problems, and I've read that it's pretty harmless as well. I have a feeling the grammas are going to frustrate my efforts though…

I appreciate the compliment, Chasmodes. It helps to hear it! I have to remind myself that it is going pretty well, despite some setbacks. My biggest struggle is with vanity! I want the manatee grass to grow into a thick, lush meadow, that photographs well. It just doesn't look like much, for two years growth…

[sam.basye]

Don't you run the risk of the fish swallowing the hook just like pond fishing and all you can do is cut the line?

[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, I suppose that is a risk. It hasn't happened, in my experience. I'm guessing there is some risk in any attempt to catch fish. My fish trap seems pretty low risk, but I've seen fish freak out in them. They could easily injure themselves when that happens too.

One big difference between hooking fish in a pond and in an aquarium is that you can see the fish take the hook in your tank. So, hopefully I can prevent that from happening.

I just googled that question. Basically, the article I read said that fish are usually able to get rid of the hook themselves, so if you doubt you can remove a hook without risking the fish's life, it's better to cut the line and let the fish do it. They also said smaller, non-stainless hooks dissolve faster, and faster in salt water.

The hook I have is very tiny, so if the worst happens, I hope the fish is able to deal with it and live happily for its natural lifespan. But I do agree, there is risk.

I also have to weigh the risk of not getting the fish out of my ICH infested tank. It's tricky! I may try Chasmodes' idea of an opaque trap. I welcome suggestions. I also mentioned the idea of treating my display, using hypo salinity. I'd have to remove the inverts, but they're easy to catch. The big question is how would the seagrasses hold up?

[SaltySully]

Originally Posted by pfan151

I'll try to catch some next time I am on the coast. They look identical to this:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

this is called a Gambusia holbrooki easy fish.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks and welcome SaltySully.

pfan151 mentioned this one. It's a livebearer, and it does venture into brackish water. So it's a possible substitute for mollies. I'll keep it in mind.

[Michael Hoaster]

Royal Gramma capture update!

Number of royal grammas caught: 0. None. Zilch. I tried Chasmodes' idea of making the trap dark/opaque. So far, no luck. I wonder now if it is helpful for the fish to see the bait in the trap. I also bought a few trout fishing flies, in mysis pattern. They checked out the fly with a quick taste, but no commitment. Next, I tried adding a molly fry to the hook. I got a pretty good hit on it, but it got off before I could bring it in (or out, in this case).

I'm sick with a cold at the moment, so I'm not at my sharpest. I got a little greedy with the winter sports, over the weekend and wore myself out. Cross country skiing and snowboarding on both weekend days was a bit much. My local ski hill is only forty minutes from my house, so it's easy to get carried away.

I had another idea for catching the grammas. Since netting them conventionally is a big long shot, I thought I might try a technique I used to catch a pair of coral banded shrimp. So, I let the fish swim into its hole in the wall, then I place a baited net over the hole. Fish swims into the net. Ta da! I'll give it a try and get back to you…

[sam.basye]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Royal Gramma capture update!

Number of royal grammas caught: 0. None. Zilch. I tried Chasmodes' idea of making the trap dark/opaque. So far, no luck. I wonder now if it is helpful for the fish to see the bait in the trap. I also bought a few trout fishing flies, in mysis pattern. They checked out the fly with a quick taste, but no commitment. Next, I tried adding a molly fry to the hook. I got a pretty good hit on it, but it got off before I could bring it in (or out, in this case).

I'm sick with a cold at the moment, so I'm not at my sharpest. I got a little greedy with the winter sports, over the weekend and wore myself out. Cross country skiing and snowboarding on both weekend days was a bit much. My local ski hill is only forty minutes from my house, so it's easy to get carried away.

I had another idea for catching the grammas. Since netting them conventionally is a big long shot, I thought I might try a technique I used to catch a pair of coral banded shrimp. So, I let the fish swim into its hole in the wall, then I place a baited net over the hole. Fish swims into the net. Ta da! I'll give it a try and get back to you…

Good luck on the fish catching!
Did you try the dark bottle next to the wall and scaring then into it? Like it's a cave.

Your getting old... A weekend of fun wears you out.

[Michael Hoaster]

I don't see how chasing them is going to help. Why would they go into a strange new cave, when they can easily just go into their favorite one? I have no influence over their choice of hide out. These fish are basically living torpedoes!

Yes, I'm getting older, but I'm pretty fit, in a town full of fit freaks. You think you could keep up? Bring it, young man…

[sam.basye]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I don't see how chasing them is going to help. Why would they go into a strange new cave, when they can easily just go into their favorite one? I have no influence over their choice of hide out. These fish are basically living torpedoes!

Yes, I'm getting older, but I'm pretty fit, in a town full of fit freaks. You think you could keep up? Bring it, young man…

You've got a point there.. plug up the caves. Then try Lol
Better idea! Chase them into the caves and whip out the shop vac. Suck those babies right out of their caves! Haha

Catching fish is a real pain...


I have no doubt I probably couldn't keep up with you. Lol
Ran a 5k on Thanksgiving and actually surprised myself. Did better than I expected since I hadn't ran at all since June. Lol
It always surprises me when reading the results and the top finishers are usually in their 40's.
I need to be more active, just need the motivation..

Haven't gone "real" snowboarding in 5 or 6 years :0
Liberty University has Snowflex, a short artificial slope, but I only did that a couple times. Not quite the same.

I did however thoroughly enjoy the recent snow here in VA by making lots of circles in my 4runner. Haha

[Michael Hoaster]

I actually considered plugging up the caves! But there are a lot of them, plus they use the fake wall piece overlaps too, so that's maybe too many things to plug. I also thought about converting my siphon into a slurp gun. Thankfully, I don't have a shop vac!

Catching fish IS a real pain!

Yes, motivation is key. I just like to go outside and play, as I did as a kid. I just go harder, faster and longer, and my toys are a lot more expensive!

[Ron Reefman]

Have you tried a fish trap? I have had great success with a 1'x1'x5" clear plastic box that has a swivel door at one end that I can pull shut with a length of fishing line. There is a small hole in the top that I can squirt a small amount of food into the trap with my turkey baster. The trap has a good size handle and I suspend the trap in the tank using dowel rods through the handle and laying on the front and back rim of the tank.

It's worked every time except for a tomato clown that refused to go in. I ended up getting her with a small brass hook with the barb filed off and baited with a small piece of shrimp. I dropped the line in the tank and she hit it in less than 5 seconds! And without the barb the hook did virtually no damage to the fish.

[Chasmodes]

Ah, too many terretorial holes to choose from. If you could slowly block their paths to all of the olds, maybe a sheet of plexiglass or divider, then maybe they'll use the trap as cover.

Other than that, fishing seems like the best option. Good luck Michael!