Use of Lasers in Controlling Pest Algae and Corals

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by SeanT

I would love to see a video of you lasing Valencia, and then a few days later video if possible.

I've found the laser to be 100% effective against bubble algae, but it will make for a boring video. The laser burns a pinhole straight through the bubble if left in one spot for more than a second, but I found this alone did not always result in it's destruction. Instead, lase the entire bubble. If you watch closely, you'll notice the bubble lighten in color with each pass of the laser. The entire process takes only ~5 seconds. It appears the laser destroys whatever is responsible for the green pigmentation in the skin of the bubble. I theorize this also heats the liquid inside of the bubble, destroying whatever it contains (i.e. spores.)

Over the next few days, the bubble fades to clear, shrivels up and disappears. I'll add it to my list of video requests, but I'm not sure you'll be able to see the change during lase. A series of still photos however would clearly show it's demise.

[SeanT]

Interesting.
Have you noticed any reappearance of the bubble algae within a week, month, etc.?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by SeanT

Interesting.
Have you noticed any reappearance of the bubble algae within a week, month, etc.?

This is an area that is open to some conjecture and one that I believe some critics of Lasers might not be accounting for...

In the case of Valonia, I have not seen a single instance where a bubble lazed with the above described technique either failed to die and disintegrate completely, or in which a new bubble appeared in that area. At issue is, there exists (at least in my tank) numerous other Valonia bubbles. While I do not believe it so, I cannot conclusively say that spores from the destroyed bubble may not have resulted in addtional outbreaks in another part of the tank.

The same is true of most every potentially targeted pest - especially Aiptasia. I have had success at destroying specific Aiptasia polyps and have experienced very few polyps that grow back in that original location. Others have reportedly not had the same results and believe that the destruction of one polyp through the use of a laser is resulting in planula being released leading to the creation of other polyps.

I have found much depends on the methodology used. I believe having access to the attachment point (or at least line of sight to the crevice), Starting on the mouth of the polyp, then lasing down the disintegrating stalk, focusing as much heat in the smallest area possible for the longest period of time possible are all keys to success.

It is not reasonable to expect that using a laser to destroy a tiny percentage of any species of pest will have a significant impact the the overall population. To that end, the laser can be a great tool for control if larger numbers are present with eradication being viable only in instances where you can get to ALL of them (rare.)

There is no way to know for certain short of creating a sterile test environment containing but a single polyp of the pest, laser it, then observe the results over time. Unfortunately that is a test I have neither the time nor the environment to conduct.

All that said, I am very happy with my results thus far - all except for Xenia which has proven to be extremely resistant. Control yes. Eradicate larger amounts...not even close.

[Ron Reefman]

Tom, if you don't mind, about how much is that new 2.2w or 2.4w laser going to cost? I'm happy with my 1.2w waterproof, but I'm curious.

Ron

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

Tom, if you don't mind, about how much is that new 2.2w or 2.4w laser going to cost? I'm happy with my 1.2w waterproof, but I'm curious.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I just received it today, it LPM'd in at just under 2.4W

I'm hesitant to release the price without permission of the builder. I was told that 445nm diodes with this high an output are somewhat rare and are "cherry picked" form larger diode orders. It was indicated to me that these builds typically sell for $450+ (I paid less.)

I haven't had a chance to put this one to work yet, but upon first impression - the workmanship is first class...







The duty cycle for this build is 2 min on / 1 min off which is amazing for a handheld generating this much power. I'll provide more information once I've had a chance to give it a proper test.

[jrpark22000]

That is one fun looking tool. A full watt stronger than the one I use. Can't wait to see the results on the more difficult tank chores such as xenia and larger palys.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by jrpark22000

That is one fun looking tool. A full watt stronger than the one I use. Can't wait to see the results on the more difficult tank chores such as xenia and larger palys.

I couldn't agree more JR, I have my sights squarely set on Xenia The longer duty cycle will help immensely.

[jrpark22000]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

I couldn't agree more JR, I have my sights squarely set on Xenia The longer duty cycle will help immensely.

Have you also tried using a tri-pod to hold the laser when trying xenia for example? I've found the extra stability does help produce better results on the tough stuff to eradicate. I made a simple acrylic block holder to attach to a camera tri-pod, cut a channel into an acrylic block for the body to fit into, then a passage for a zip tie used for an anchor.

[seapug]

I just borrowed one of these lasers (1W blue, I believe) from a friend to try it out on some difficult to reach Aiptasia and persistent hydroid patches in my tank. I did a couple test rounds last night. My tank is 36" X 48", so results seemed great within about 8 to 10 inches of the glass, but tricky ones further back in the rocks are going to take some more work, or may not be possible with this particular laser.

I will go on record as saying these things are definitely not toys and should not be used by kids without close adult supervision. I'm quite surprised they aren't classified and regulated like firearms, especially considering how small and portable they are (like a mini mag-light).

Heed the advice to wear the proper safety goggles, clear the room of all other people and pets and make sure your fish don't cross paths with the laser (mine were terrified of it). Keep your finger on the switch at all times while working in the tank if there are fish present. Reflections from the glass are a genuine concern (felt one on my hand) so be very aware of where they are hitting in the room (or your clothing).

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by seapug

I just borrowed one of these lasers (1W blue, I believe) from a friend to try it out on some difficult to reach Aiptasia and persistent hydroid patches in my tank. I did a couple test rounds last night. My tank is 36" X 48", so results seemed great within about 8 to 10 inches of the glass, but tricky ones further back in the rocks are going to take some more work, or may not be possible with this particular laser.

I will go on record as saying these things are definitely not toys and should not be used by kids without close adult supervision.

seapug, try turning off as much flow as you can in the tank. The less the water moves around, the better the laser can heat up the target. And I think, I'm not sure, but I think, the further the target is away from the source, the less heat it generates. Or said another way, the further out from the laser that the focus is, the less heat it develops. Tom might know for sure.

And you are absolutely right about the fact that these are NOT toys.

BTW Tom, very cool new laser. I'll be very interested in hearing your thoughts on how much better, if better at all, that it works. I can't say I notice any difference between my 1.0w and my 1.3w lasers.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by jrpark22000

Have you also tried using a tri-pod to hold the laser when trying xenia for example? I've found the extra stability does help produce better results on the tough stuff to eradicate. I made a simple acrylic block holder to attach to a camera tri-pod, cut a channel into an acrylic block for the body to fit into, then a passage for a zip tie used for an anchor.

I have a clip-on tripod attachment that I tried but rarely use. I'm consistently changing the focal length based on the distance to the target. I've found it easier and faster to make minute adjustments by adjust the laser position closer/further to maintain focus. I've also found that for me, the best way to maintain focus is based on the sound of the target being eviscerated (snap, crackle, pop...) rather than trying to visually see the size of the beam endpoint (especially difficult with the EaglePair glasses.)

Originally Posted by seapug

I just borrowed one of these lasers (1W blue, I believe) from a friend to try it out on some difficult to reach Aiptasia and persistent hydroid patches in my tank. I did a couple test rounds last night. My tank is 36" X 48", so results seemed great within about 8 to 10 inches of the glass, but tricky ones further back in the rocks are going to take some more work, or may not be possible with this particular laser.

I will go on record as saying these things are definitely not toys and should not be used by kids without close adult supervision. I'm quite surprised they aren't classified and regulated like firearms, especially considering how small and portable they are (like a mini mag-light).

Heed the advice to wear the proper safety goggles, clear the room of all other people and pets and make sure your fish don't cross paths with the laser (mine were terrified of it). Keep your finger on the switch at all times while working in the tank if there are fish present. Reflections from the glass are a genuine concern (felt one on my hand) so be very aware of where they are hitting in the room (or your clothing).

I agree with all the safety concerns seapug. A 1W laser is less than the ideal amount of output for our purposes, especially with your larger tank. This is one instance where more power really is a good thing.

I spent about 30 minutes with the new 2.4W 445nm and it is clearly far superior to anything else I've tried.

• The additional power output reduced Xenia to "bubbling blob" status much faster than my next most powerful unit.
  
• Despite the much higher power, the heat sinking is so massive the duty cycles are longer. Initial use - 3 minutes. Thereafter 2 minutes on / 1 minute off.
  
• The optics on this laser allow me to better focus the beam endpoint for more effective burning.

I'll work on setting up a video, for now - as many have asked about how handheld lasers are powered, here's a shot of the Li-Ion batteries being recharged after a successful laze session...

[gorally]

Thank you for all the write up. I am considering purchasing one of this unit. However, I can only found one retailer with 1.2W. The other high power one, 1.8 -2.0 are only found in Aliexpress, a subsid of Alibaba in China. I am not sure if I trust the items there but like to hear if anyone purchase from them?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by gorally

Thank you for all the write up. I am considering purchasing one of this unit. However, I can only found one retailer with 1.2W. The other high power one, 1.8 -2.0 are only found in Aliexpress, a subsid of Alibaba in China. I am not sure if I trust the items there but like to hear if anyone purchase from them?

I purchased through Survival Laser, Lazerer (website appears to be down) and had the last one custom built. I do not recommend purchasing through Wicked lasers due to the number of complaints including lasers that do not generate the stated output.

Survival Laser now has ready to assemble kits for 445nm up to 2.4W - http://www.survivallaser.com/Blue_La...89_492423.aspx

I'm also willing to provide contact information via PM for the builder of my last Laser (2.3+W) whose work I am very impressed with.

A quick update. My earlier findings are holding up. I've found the laser to be a very effective tool for most every pest EXCEPT Xenia. Even when virtually disintegrating Xenia using long, multiple laze sessions, it still often recovers and regrows. It's somewhat effective at maintaining margins (destroying new growth), but even with 2.3+W, I don't believe a laser is an effective too for eradicating Xenia.

My next area of focus is on using the laser to limit infringing hard corals, in essence, creating a DMZ around colonies. It worked well on a large Sunset Monti colony that was encroaching an Acro colony and expect similar positive results when used with other SPS.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by gorally

Thank you for all the write up. I am considering purchasing one of this unit. However, I can only found one retailer with 1.2W. The other high power one, 1.8 -2.0 are only found in Aliexpress, a subsid of Alibaba in China. I am not sure if I trust the items there but like to hear if anyone purchase from them?

I did n't have any problem with the Lazerer.com site. Maybe they were just working on it? Here is the link to the 1.2w waterproof blue laser:

http://lazerer.com/Blue_Laser_Pointer?product_id=165

It's only $159.00 delivered. Safety glasses are extra (and I highly recommend them). It ships from Hong Kong and mine took about 4 weeks to get to SW Florida. But it is just as advertised and works very well for me.

[edgey]

[QUOTE=
My next area of focus is on using the laser to limit infringing hard corals, in essence, creating a DMZ around colonies. It worked well on a large Sunset Monti colony that was encroaching an Acro colony and expect similar positive results when used with other SPS.[/QUOTE]

Not laser related, but I'm curious- would a monti encroaching on an acrcro likely wipe out the acro or would the two likely grow together and maybe get burned at the edges?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by edgey

Not laser related, but I'm curious- would a monti encroaching on an acrcro likely wipe out the acro or would the two likely grow together and maybe get burned at the edges?

I've seen a couple of different results. IME, generally the Acro initially "fends off" the Monti, but eventually the Monti grows vertically, shading the edge of the Acro, killing the shaded section which is then covered by the Monti.

I've been watching a couple of battles, sorry for the horrible, colorless cell phone pics...


Purple Haze doing battle with an unknown Acro. You can see how the Monti eventually goes vertical and shades the Acro.


Pink Lemonade Acro Vs. Spongeodes. Pink lemonade is a clear winner in this battle.

You'll also often get a localized algae outbreak as the dying tissue breaks down releasing nutrients. I've got lots of others to test on as well including GSP vs Garf Bonsia

The laser is very good at "surgically" targeting and killing just the margins (down individual coralites if desired) of the encroaching coral, before it damages other nearby colonies, effectively creating a DMZ.

[edgey]

Thanks-those are very cool pictures. I like the idea and look of coral battling as in the wild. Your laser enforced DMZ is a neat idea. Great thread, very well documented.

[gorally]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

I did n't have any problem with the Lazerer.com site. Maybe they were just working on it? Here is the link to the 1.2w waterproof blue laser:

http://lazerer.com/Blue_Laser_Pointer?product_id=165

It's only $159.00 delivered. Safety glasses are extra (and I highly recommend them). It ships from Hong Kong and mine took about 4 weeks to get to SW Florida. But it is just as advertised and works very well for me.

Is 1.2 W powerful enough to kill over the glass? I had some in a very hard to reach location which I doubt I can aim them in water.

[gorally]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

I purchased through Survival Laser, Lazerer (website appears to be down) and had the last one custom built. I do not recommend purchasing through Wicked lasers due to the number of complaints including lasers that do not generate the stated output.

Survival Laser now has ready to assemble kits for 445nm up to 2.4W - http://www.survivallaser.com/Blue_La...89_492423.aspx

I'm also willing to provide contact information via PM for the builder of my last Laser (2.3+W) whose work I am very impressed with.

A quick update. My earlier findings are holding up. I've found the laser to be a very effective tool for most every pest EXCEPT Xenia. Even when virtually disintegrating Xenia using long, multiple laze sessions, it still often recovers and regrows. It's somewhat effective at maintaining margins (destroying new growth), but even with 2.3+W, I don't believe a laser is an effective too for eradicating Xenia.

My next area of focus is on using the laser to limit infringing hard corals, in essence, creating a DMZ around colonies. It worked well on a large Sunset Monti colony that was encroaching an Acro colony and expect similar positive results when used with other SPS.

Thank you Tom. I can't afford to spare $500 for the 2.3watt now. No sure if 1.2 w will do that job tho.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by gorally

Is 1.2 W powerful enough to kill over the glass? I had some in a very hard to reach location which I doubt I can aim them in water.

The surface water movement scatters the light from the laser. If the water was dead calm it might work. But here are the solutions:

1) I've used my 'look down box' and it works well. BTW, we made them when the good people from Next Reef came and did an acrylic workshop at our local club meeting. They are good people and a good company.

2) The laser is water proof. Just guess about how far you will have the laser from the object you want to use it on. Focus it before you put it in the water (it's pretty easy as you can see the light beam narrow at the focus point). You can move the laser closer or further away as you need to in order to get the object in good focus.

[CalmSeasQuest]

My 1.2W does work, it just takes longer, especially with lighter colored targets, or those with more mass. The longer laze sessions are problematic due to duty cycle limitations which are typically ~1 minute on, followed by 1 minute of cooling.

You might want to peruse LaserPointerForums - There are a few very highly skilled laser builders that can create a higher power laser at much lower price points.

[luisagos]

Would like to give thanks to all here for all the great information.

I just ordered a 2,100mW 2.1W 445nm Black C6 Laser for $220

Specs:

Average Power output: 2,100mW (+/-100mW) measured over a 45 second test.
Lens: High efficiency 405-G-2 lens
Diode: M140 445nm putting out over 2W at only 1.62A!
Driver: Mohgasm 1.62A thermal epoxied to aluminum chip and the pill.
Module: 12mm Copper
Heatsink: Black anodized Aluminum
Focus: Adjustable with use of anodized black matching focus adapter
Duty cycle: 90sec on/off (recommended) Let laser cool if it feels more than warm.


I now need some goggles, what do recommend buying from and what kind.
Thank you again.

[gorally]

Originally Posted by luisagos

Would like to give thanks to all here for all the great information.

I just ordered a 2,100mW 2.1W 445nm Black C6 Laser for $220

Specs:

Average Power output: 2,100mW (+/-100mW) measured over a 45 second test.
Lens: High efficiency 405-G-2 lens
Diode: M140 445nm putting out over 2W at only 1.62A!
Driver: Mohgasm 1.62A thermal epoxied to aluminum chip and the pill.
Module: 12mm Copper
Heatsink: Black anodized Aluminum
Focus: Adjustable with use of anodized black matching focus adapter
Duty cycle: 90sec on/off (recommended) Let laser cool if it feels more than warm.


I now need some goggles, what do recommend buying from and what kind.
Thank you again.

Could you PM me the link. Thx,

[jrpark22000]

Originally Posted by luisagos

I now need some goggles, what do recommend buying from and what kind.
Thank you again.

Goggles specific to the wavelenght of your laser and as strong as possible but still allows for the endpoint to be visable.

Here is the post where I found mine.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=137

[CalmSeasQuest]

A quick update on my experience on the use of lasers in marine aquaria...

I haven't used the laser in months. As far as I can see, I have eradicated all Aptasia in my tanks (now if I can just get rid of the red calcareous algae.) Some individual polyps required multiple lase sessions - but all eventually died and have not returned. I consider my test of the use of lasers in pest control a long-term success with a few caveats,

Safety First - (for you, any observers (intended or otherwise) and the inhabitants of your tank remain paramount. Used in an unsafe manner, laser light at the powers used for this purpose is dangerous and will burn and blind.

The laser worked very well for me as I was able to acquire a very powerful unit AND my tank had only a few fish, including clowns that rarely left a specific area and my frag tank had no fish. This made it easy to work in areas where they would not be exposed to the beam or endpoint.

Cost - Although prices are dropping, it's still a very expensive tool.